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Author Topic: The proper wear of CAP ribbons  (Read 131869 times)
Dutchboy
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« Reply #140 on: October 31, 2009, 12:31:51 AM »

This may sound silly, but where can I find info on what uniform ribbons can be worn on. Specifically on the Golf shirts. Someone seems to think they can wear them on the Golf Shirt. Where can I find documentation that says you can or cannot wear the golf shirt with ribbons?
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #141 on: October 31, 2009, 01:14:19 AM »

CAPM 39-1

Wear of ribbons only on specific AF and Corporate Uniforms. NOTHING on those [darn] polos.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #142 on: October 31, 2009, 01:18:30 AM »

CAPM 39-1 has all of your answers. Specifically, Chapter 5 addresses the specific issue.

Quote from: CAPM 39-1
5-1. Wear of Awards and Decorations. Awards and decorations prescribed by CAPR 39-3, Award of CAP Medals, Ribbons, and Certificates, will be worn only by CAP members for whom they have been authorized and only on those uniforms outlined below. Figure 5-1 outlines the proper arrangement and placement on service uniforms. Ribbons and medals will not be worn on the utility uniform, field uniform, CAP blazer (exception one miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform), battle dress uniform, flight suits, and in no case will they be worn on the overcoat, raincoat, all-weather coat, or lightweight blue jacket.

5-2. When Awards and Decorations are Worn. Ribbons are mandatory with the USAF service dress and the semiformal uniforms. They are optional with all other service uniforms and the aviator shirt. No military awards or decorations may be worn on the aviator shirt. NOTE: All ribbons and devices worn by senior members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the bottom tip of the collar of AF-style shirts/blouses worn as outergarments. Miniature medals are mandatory with the mess dress uniform (men and women). One miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform.

Service uniforms:
Quote
a. Service uniforms include the service dress uniform, long-sleeve light blue blouse/shirt, and shortsleeve light blue blouse/shirt.
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Dave Bowles
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Dutchboy
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« Reply #143 on: October 31, 2009, 04:49:14 AM »

CAPM 39-1 has all of your answers. Specifically, Chapter 5 addresses the specific issue.

Quote from: CAPM 39-1
5-1. Wear of Awards and Decorations. Awards and decorations prescribed by CAPR 39-3, Award of CAP Medals, Ribbons, and Certificates, will be worn only by CAP members for whom they have been authorized and only on those uniforms outlined below. Figure 5-1 outlines the proper arrangement and placement on service uniforms. Ribbons and medals will not be worn on the utility uniform, field uniform, CAP blazer (exception one miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform), battle dress uniform, flight suits, and in no case will they be worn on the overcoat, raincoat, all-weather coat, or lightweight blue jacket.

5-2. When Awards and Decorations are Worn. Ribbons are mandatory with the USAF service dress and the semiformal uniforms. They are optional with all other service uniforms and the aviator shirt. No military awards or decorations may be worn on the aviator shirt. NOTE: All ribbons and devices worn by senior members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the bottom tip of the collar of AF-style shirts/blouses worn as outergarments. Miniature medals are mandatory with the mess dress uniform (men and women). One miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform.

Service uniforms:
Quote
a. Service uniforms include the service dress uniform, long-sleeve light blue blouse/shirt, and shortsleeve light blue blouse/shirt.



In 5-1 it lists specifically the items it cannot be worn on, but does not list the polo shirt.  I am trying to properly educate a member and need documentation. I think they read only 5-1 and thought it was ok, since it was not listed there.  Please help me distinguish where it says no if it does not specifically state polo shirt. I need to know what to tell this member.
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JoeTomasone
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« Reply #144 on: October 31, 2009, 05:21:48 AM »


In 5-1 it lists specifically the items it cannot be worn on, but does not list the polo shirt.

Actually, it says that the uniforms it CAN be worn on are "outlined below":

Quote from: CAPM 39-1
5-1. Wear of Awards and Decorations. Awards and decorations prescribed by CAPR 39-3, Award of CAP Medals, Ribbons, and Certificates, will be worn only by CAP members for whom they have been authorized and only on those uniforms outlined below. Figure 5-1 outlines the proper arrangement and placement on service uniforms. Ribbons and medals will not be worn on the utility uniform, field uniform, CAP blazer (exception one miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform), battle dress uniform, flight suits, and in no case will they be worn on the overcoat, raincoat, all-weather coat, or lightweight blue jacket.

5-2. When Awards and Decorations are Worn. Ribbons are mandatory with the USAF service dress and the semiformal uniforms. They are optional with all other service uniforms and the aviator shirt. No military awards or decorations may be worn on the aviator shirt. NOTE: All ribbons and devices worn by senior members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the bottom tip of the collar of AF-style shirts/blouses worn as outergarments. Miniature medals are mandatory with the mess dress uniform (men and women). One miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform.


So you are authorized to wear ribbons on the:

USAF service dress and the semiformal uniforms,
All other service uniforms,
The aviator shirt.

What are the service uniforms?

Quote
Service uniforms:
a. Service uniforms include the service dress uniform, long-sleeve light blue blouse/shirt, and shortsleeve light blue blouse/shirt.


The other clue is that for each of the above listed uniforms, the section describing them says where to put the ribbons.   There is no mention of ribbons for the non-eligible uniforms such as the BDUs, flight suits, and, yes, the Polo shirt.



I am trying to properly educate a member and need documentation. I think they read only 5-1 and thought it was ok, since it was not listed there.

With uniforms, if it does not expressly permit it, it is not permitted.


Quote from: CAPM 39-1, Section 1-1
COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear.


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Dutchboy
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« Reply #145 on: October 31, 2009, 05:30:24 AM »

JoeTamasone, that last item you entered ( Quote from: CAPM 39-1, Section 1-1 )
was the clincher for me . Thanks alot. If they still don't believe me, I should invite them to wear the ribbons on a polo and show up at the wing building during a Commanders call and see what happens then  ?  >:D No, JK on that.
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Hawk200
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« Reply #146 on: October 31, 2009, 05:51:24 AM »

JoeTamasone, that last item you entered ( Quote from: CAPM 39-1, Section 1-1 )
was the clincher for me . Thanks alot. If they still don't believe me, I should invite them to wear the ribbons on a polo and show up at the wing building during a Commanders call and see what happens then  ?  >:D No, JK on that.

Sometimes getting your tail handed to you is the only way to learn.

I'd be curious to know where this member is going to put them on the shirt anyway.
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MSgt Van
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« Reply #147 on: October 31, 2009, 03:07:55 PM »

 ::)
Wow. Me thinks there needs to be more reg readin' during level 1 and 2 of our PD programs...
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SMSgt John D. Vanderhoof, CAP
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« Reply #148 on: October 31, 2009, 03:14:18 PM »

I'd be curious to know where this member is going to put them on the shirt anyway.
Resting on, but not over, the top edge of the pocket.   :)
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AlphaSigOU
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« Reply #149 on: October 31, 2009, 03:16:42 PM »

::)
Wow. Me thinks there needs to be more reg readin' during level 1 and 2 of our PD programs...

Ain't that the truth... How many /facepalms have I done witnessing egregious uniform violations? Ignorantia lex ineminem excusat. (Ignorance of the law is no excuse.)
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Spike
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« Reply #150 on: November 01, 2009, 02:50:33 PM »

Ignorantia lex ineminem excusat. (Ignorance of the law is no excuse.)

du talar latin, prata me svenska (you talk Latin, me talk Swedish)
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hard8
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« Reply #151 on: April 24, 2010, 10:05:37 AM »

What bothers me  is that from time to time National deletes a ribbon in favor of a new one or declares it obsolete.  In the US military, once  you earn a ribbon you keep it forever.  I have at least 7 I can no longer ware that have been deleted or had a new design put  in it's place.  Who makes these decisions?  I'll bet it is not anyone that was  in the real military.  COP holder  in FWG
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flyboy53
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« Reply #152 on: April 24, 2010, 10:19:38 AM »

Who's the guy who wants to wear ribbons on a golf shirt? HWSRN?

Seriously, why would you want to poke holes in a golf shirt for ribbons, anyway?

I thought the golf shirt was a semi-casual type of uniform.
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tdepp
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« Reply #153 on: April 24, 2010, 02:48:41 PM »

This may sound silly, but where can I find info on what uniform ribbons can be worn on. Specifically on the Golf shirts. Someone seems to think they can wear them on the Golf Shirt. Where can I find documentation that says you can or cannot wear the golf shirt with ribbons?
Dutch:
Seriously? Someone actually wants to wear ribbons on their polo shirt?  Astounding.
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Todd D. Epp, LL.M., Capt, CAP
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Gunner C
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« Reply #154 on: April 24, 2010, 06:10:08 PM »

::)
Wow. Me thinks there needs to be more reg readin' during level 1 and 2 of our PD programs...

Ain't that the truth... How many /facepalms have I done witnessing egregious uniform violations? Ignorantia lex ineminem excusat. (Ignorance of the law is no excuse.)

I disagree.  The only way to get folks to wear their uniforms correctly is person-to-person training called an inspection.  Inspections are teaching tools.  There's too many out there who are frightened to stand a bunch of folks in line and show them where they're making mistakes. 

Reading regulations?  That's an exercise in folly.  Heck, I've got 35 years experience and I can't decipher what the regulation says on uniforms occasionally.  Positive leadership, not passive ("Here, read this.  There's something wrong with your uniform") leadership is what is needed.  C'mon folks.  Train your people.  What are you afraid of?
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PHall
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« Reply #155 on: April 24, 2010, 09:28:24 PM »

What bothers me  is that from time to time National deletes a ribbon in favor of a new one or declares it obsolete.  In the US military, once  you earn a ribbon you keep it forever.  I have at least 7 I can no longer ware that have been deleted or had a new design put  in it's place.  Who makes these decisions?  I'll bet it is not anyone that was  in the real military.  COP holder  in FWG

Which 7 ribbons have been changed or deleted? And where in the regs does it say you can't wear it?

You can still wear the Falcon Award and it hasn't been awarded for over 20 years.
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lordmonar
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« Reply #156 on: April 24, 2010, 09:42:39 PM »

He may be refereing to the old cadet awards.  They had all those cute pictures on them back in the 80's early 90's.

I can't think of any ribbon that has been changed or deleted in the last 10 years or so.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
flyboy53
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« Reply #157 on: April 28, 2010, 12:51:06 AM »

I just read the guide. It's excellent, but I have several comments that I'm not sure how to to implement them on your guide.

First, I ran into a former cadet with a Earhart Ribbon with one or two silver stars. He claimed the devices were for completing the Cadet Program and for being on a CAC? Anybody know anything about that?

Two other comments:

(1.) Although I don't dispute that Coast Guard Auxiliary ribbons can't be worn on the CAP uniform, some of the ribbons/medals earned by the Coast Guard Auxiliary are federal or are U.S. Department of Transportaton-related. Are those still worn?

(2.) The Mobilization Device on the Armed Forces Reserve Medal is a bronze "M," not gold. Mine is bronze and I think the only entry on my DD Form 214 is for the "M" device..no metal indicated. Gold is for the hourglass device and it represents three decades of Reserve service.

Otherwise, excellent job!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 02:06:47 AM by flyboy1 » Report to moderator   Logged
τε
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« Reply #158 on: April 28, 2010, 01:08:04 AM »

First, I ran into a former cadet with a Earhart Ribbon with one or two silver stars. He claimed the devices were for (1.) Completing the Cadet Program and for being on a CAC? Anybody know anything about that?
Before the Eaker award, a cadet who completed phase IV wore a silver triangular clasp (not a star) on the Earhart ribbon. If the cadet did not later earn the Spaatz award, the clasp would continue to be worn on the ribbon if the cadet became a senior member. I do not recall anything about a star for CAC.
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Ned
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« Reply #159 on: April 28, 2010, 02:18:45 AM »

As a senior, I wear the silver star on my Spaatz ribbon authorized by CAPR 39-3, para 14(j) to denote completion of Cadet Officer School.

(I don't choose to wear my Falcon Award simply because no one has any idea what it is anymore, and the enamel makes it tough to wear the silver star.  8))

A former cadet could wear the silver star on an Eaker ribbon under similar circumstances.

(Of course, these days I could also wear the Cadet Special Activities Ribbon with a bronze star to denote the same thing.)
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