November 29, 2020, 07:46:51 am

The proper wear of CAP ribbons

Started by AlphaSigOU, September 30, 2007, 04:37:30 pm

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Cecil DP

October 18, 2009, 12:41:52 pm #120 Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 12:46:06 pm by Cecil DP
Quote from: mdickinson on October 18, 2009, 11:41:43 am
Quote from: SarDragon on October 18, 2009, 06:00:28 am
Why would you want to refuse to accept an award?


I'm no expert on military etiquette, but I wonder if it's proper to decline an award that someone is giving you. Perhaps a veteran on the board can comment.

Certainly most cadets wouldn't ever decline an award. A few different circumstances come to mind when a cadet might consider it, such as:

(note, I'm not defending any of these as logical or good reasons; just trying to imagine what he might be thinking)

1. The cadet feels the award is unjustified (e.g., a commander's commendation for just showing up at a 1-day activity or finding one ELT)
2. He feels that others (one or more buddies) were not recognized (e.g. he is getting an award as the flight commander, but his flight sergeant is not)
3. He is getting an award that his friends are not, and doesn't want to be accused of being a suck-up
4. He can't afford the cost of a new ribbon rack to hold all those awards! :-)

In 1914 a Major S.D. Butler, USMC refused to accept his Medal of Honor for heroism at Vera Cruz Mexico. He was subsequently told that he was to accept it and wear it. The following year he received a second one for actions in Haiti. He went on to become a Major General at the age of 36 and commanded Marine Forces in China in the 20's and 30's.

Awards are gven to recognize not only your actions, but to encourage others to step up and achieve a similar high standards.
Michael P. McEleney
LtCol CAP
MSG  USA Retired
GRW#436 Feb 85

Hawk200

Quote from: mdickinson on October 18, 2009, 11:41:43 amI'm no expert on military etiquette, but I wonder if it's proper to decline an award that someone is giving you. Perhaps a veteran on the board can comment.

Certainly most cadets wouldn't ever decline an award. A few different circumstances come to mind when a cadet might consider it, such as:

(note, I'm not defending any of these as logical or good reasons; just trying to imagine what he might be thinking)

1. The cadet feels the award is unjustified (e.g., a commander's commendation for just showing up at a 1-day activity or finding one ELT)
2. He feels that others (one or more buddies) were not recognized (e.g. he is getting an award as the flight commander, but his flight sergeant is not)
3. He is getting an award that his friends are not, and doesn't want to be accused of being a suck-up
4. He can't afford the cost of a new ribbon rack to hold all those awards! :-)


I've only know of two occurances in twenty years of military time. One an officer, the other a senior NCO. Both were for option 2.

As to whether it's proper, it's not really an issue. A person can expunge decorations later if they wish.  I've heard of that happening more often than declinations. People have their reasons, it's not really anyone elses place to judge. Others might be curious, but it's not up to them.

mc2

M.C.V
C/2dLt, CAP
CAP GTL
GLR-WI-13

Gunner C

Here's an important point - it should be done either ahead of time or after the presentation.  Don't ever embarrass an awarding official by turning down an award at the ceremony.

mc2

M.C.V
C/2dLt, CAP
CAP GTL
GLR-WI-13

Spike

I once asked a West Point Cadet what his ribbon was he was wearing.  His reply, "oh , um that is what we get when we get accepted to West Point".  The military does throw around too many awards and ribbons to people have no clue why they got them or what they are for.

Can anyone guess what ribbon he was wearing?

exFlight Officer

I earned my ribbons from AFJROTC and when I graduated, I found out I could not wear them on my CAP uniform with my two ribbons from CAP. Bummed. Suppose that is fair seeing that I am not in AFJROTC anymore.

NCRblues

Quote from: Spike on October 19, 2009, 04:30:25 am
I once asked a West Point Cadet what his ribbon was he was wearing.  His reply, "oh , um that is what we get when we get accepted to West Point".  The military does throw around too many awards and ribbons to people have no clue why they got them or what they are for.

Can anyone guess what ribbon he was wearing?


National Defense Service Medal?
In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC

jb512

Quote from: NCRblues on October 19, 2009, 05:44:55 am
Quote from: Spike on October 19, 2009, 04:30:25 am
I once asked a West Point Cadet what his ribbon was he was wearing.  His reply, "oh , um that is what we get when we get accepted to West Point".  The military does throw around too many awards and ribbons to people have no clue why they got them or what they are for.

Can anyone guess what ribbon he was wearing?


National Defense Service Medal?


That's my guess too.

Cecil DP

Quote from: jaybird512 on October 19, 2009, 06:25:40 am
Quote from: NCRblues on October 19, 2009, 05:44:55 am
Quote from: Spike on October 19, 2009, 04:30:25 am
I once asked a West Point Cadet what his ribbon was he was wearing.  His reply, "oh , um that is what we get when we get accepted to West Point".  The military does throw around too many awards and ribbons to people have no clue why they got them or what they are for.

Can anyone guess what ribbon he was wearing?


National Defense Service Medal?


That's my guess too.



Or the Army Service Ribbon.
Michael P. McEleney
LtCol CAP
MSG  USA Retired
GRW#436 Feb 85

jb512

I could be wrong but I don't think the Army Service Ribbon would be given until after completion of the academy.

Spike

Quote from: NCRblues on October 19, 2009, 05:44:55 am
Quote from: Spike on October 19, 2009, 04:30:25 am
I once asked a West Point Cadet what his ribbon was he was wearing.  His reply, "oh , um that is what we get when we get accepted to West Point".  The military does throw around too many awards and ribbons to people have no clue why they got them or what they are for.

Can anyone guess what ribbon he was wearing?


National Defense Service Medal?


Correct.  You win! 

NCRblues

In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC

Gunner C

October 19, 2009, 12:10:49 pm #133 Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 12:15:45 pm by Gunner C
Quote from: jaybird512 on October 19, 2009, 06:54:46 am
I could be wrong but I don't think the Army Service Ribbon would be given until after completion of the academy.

Nope.  They don't get that until they finish their officer basic course at their branch school. They're just barely officers then.  ;D

Gunner Story:

In my first battalion, our commander LTC Joe Cincotti (SF historic figure) always led the battalion on a 5 mile run on Wednesdays.  After the end of one of these, before turning the battalion back over to the CSM he called out "ALL OFFICERS AND LIEUTENANTS SEE ME AFTERWARDS BEHIND THE FORMATION."  In a formation of NCOs, there wasn't a straight face in the bunch.  As the formation deteriorated into laughter, the CSM had us fall out.

Check Pilot/Tow Pilot

15 years in the Canadian Air Force (Canadian Forces) and I received one lovely Canadian Forces Decoration (12 years of undetected crime).  Now with just under a year in CAP I earned my fourth ribbon for a non-distress find on Saturday.

Since I can't couldn't wear it officially on my mess dress with my two CAP medals, I wore it on the backside of my lapel, and flashed the Queen to my friends :O

Nothing like a little Chest Cabbage to make one feel good :)

Gunner C

If you can find a miniature for the Canadian award, why couldn't you wear it?

BuckeyeDEJ

Quote from: Gunner C on October 20, 2009, 01:12:22 pm
If you can find a miniature for the Canadian award, why couldn't you wear it?


I'm guessing it's because it's a foreign decoration not authorized for wear on an American military uniform. But that's me just taking a quick stab at it, a partially educated guess.


CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group and wing PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member, at region level now
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now in marketing.

Майор Хаткевич

Haven't buzzed the regs in a while but...

Page 3 of CAPR 39-3

Quote from: 3 b. Decorations, ribbons, and badges authorized for
wear on the US Air Force uniform may be worn on the
CAP uniform when earned through qualification and
awarded by competent authority to a member for service
performed in any branch of the Armed Forces of the
United States or its allies. (Foreign decorations, ribbons,
badges, etc., awarded in writing to a member not in the
Armed Forces of the United States may also be worn if
approved by National Headquarters.) Aeronautical
badges, emblems, insignia, ribbons, etc., given by a
foreign government, or agency, as souvenirs or emblems
of friendship do not qualify as earned awards and will not
be worn on the CAP uniform. All cases where doubt
exists as to the propriety of a badge, medal or other
device being worn will be referred to National
Headquarters for decision.


Man that felt good!

Check Pilot/Tow Pilot

It appears that I need permission from NHQ to wear the award.  I think I'll wait until I have at least a year of service before I cause more waves.

No one likes a trouble maker, and especially a Canuck pain in the butt ;). Maybe when I become a Yankee next month, life will change ;)

Gunner C

Quote from: Amelia Earhart SQ on October 20, 2009, 03:11:18 pm
It appears that I need permission from NHQ to wear the award.  I think I'll wait until I have at least a year of service before I cause more waves.

No one likes a trouble maker, and especially a Canuck pain in the butt ;). Maybe when I become a Yankee next month, life will change ;)

Aw come on!  Anyone who stomps like you while marching  . . . No one's going to get in your way!  ;D