CAP Talk

General Discussion => Uniforms & Awards => Topic started by: AlphaSigOU on September 30, 2007, 12:37:30 PM

Title: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: AlphaSigOU on September 30, 2007, 12:37:30 PM
Attached is a guide I created on the proper wear of CAP ribbons. Makes things a lot easier to figure out than having to dig through a maze of regs and policy letters. This is only a guide - consult the latest CAP regulations and poliy letters for guidance.

ETA: Dug it out from an earlier thread for easier access - mods, please make it a sticky s'il vous plait.

Moderator Edit:  Most recent version (2008) replacing original download.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: arajca on September 30, 2007, 12:40:56 PM
That's the one I was looking for! Thank you.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SDF_Specialist on September 30, 2007, 12:41:51 PM
Again Captain, more great work!
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: AlphaSigOU on September 30, 2007, 12:45:04 PM
Danke schoen... some may call me a uniform Nazi behind my back, but I'm proud to wear my CAP uniform. And when I wear it, I wear it properly. Being a former cadink helps.  ;D
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Fireball on September 30, 2007, 12:58:28 PM
Very nicely done! However, you may want to insert a paragraph stating that this is a guide only and that the actual regulation must be adhered to.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Fireball on September 30, 2007, 01:00:06 PM
My bad. After re-reading the document , I noticed that you had your disclaimer in the opening paragraph.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: AlphaSigOU on September 30, 2007, 01:02:14 PM
Very nicely done! However, you may want to insert a paragraph stating that this is a guide only and that the actual regulation must be adhered to.

Already did in the first paragraph of this document. I'll add that to the first post as well.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jb512 on September 30, 2007, 07:58:52 PM
So am I correct in reading that RM ribbons can be worn on the white/blues, but not military badges?

The 15 March 06 memo states no RM "badges or devices", so are we interpreting that not to include ribbons as a prohibited item?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: AlphaSigOU on September 30, 2007, 08:32:49 PM
So am I correct in reading that RM ribbons can be worn on the white/blues, but not military badges?

The 15 March 06 memo states no RM "badges or devices", so are we interpreting that not to include ribbons as a prohibited item?


[barracks lawyer mode on]

Way I interpret it, nichts on mil badges or devices; mil ribbons are kosher.

[/barracks lawyer mode off]

... waiting for the unmarked black van to send me to a 'reeducation' camp!  ;D
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jb512 on September 30, 2007, 09:01:37 PM
Yeah, yet another confusing wording from the bosses.  We had interpreted it to mean no RM things at all, but if ribbons are allowed on the corporates, that would be good news to a few of our prior military members who can't wear the blues anymore.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SarDragon on October 01, 2007, 02:50:24 AM
Remember, this only applies to white shirts with blue trousers. Saying "corporate uniform" is not specific enough.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: addo1 on October 01, 2007, 06:55:34 AM
  AlphaSigOU, I must say again: AWESOME.  This has already been a tremendous help to me the few minutes I had it.  Thanks.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jb512 on October 01, 2007, 09:53:51 AM
Remember, this only applies to white shirts with blue trousers. Saying "corporate uniform" is not specific enough.

We need someone to put together a guide naming all of our different uniforms.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: addo1 on October 01, 2007, 10:16:40 AM
  Yeah, that would be wonderful.  :)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: davedove on October 01, 2007, 10:21:28 AM
So am I correct in reading that RM ribbons can be worn on the white/blues, but not military badges?

The 15 March 06 memo states no RM "badges or devices", so are we interpreting that not to include ribbons as a prohibited item?


[barracks lawyer mode on]

Way I interpret it, nichts on mil badges or devices; mil ribbons are kosher.

[/barracks lawyer mode off]

... waiting for the unmarked black van to send me to a 'reeducation' camp!  ;D

The 29 June 2006 memo states:

This double-breasted coat will be worn by senior member officers with metal grade insignia, the silver nametag and CAP ribbons, badges and devices as currently authorized on the Air Force Service Coat.


Note that it specifically says CAP ribbons, etc.  If it were to allow military ribbons, I don't believe any such specification would have been included.

Granted, that memo is talking about the jacket, but why would you allow more to be worn on the shirt than you would the jacket.  Also, this memo comes later, so any requirements here supersedes earlier requirements.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jb512 on October 01, 2007, 11:09:41 AM
I'm getting the feeling that by "devices" they mean anything from the RM.  Looks like the white/blues are strictly CAP insignia/badges/ribbons/devices/accoutrements/ornaments/tassels/fringe/glitter.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SarDragon on October 01, 2007, 07:47:06 PM
Remember, this only applies to white shirts with blue trousers. Saying "corporate uniform" is not specific enough.

We need someone to put together a guide naming all of our different uniforms.


I think that's covered pretty well by the CAPM 39-1, and subsequent memos. Sadly, there is no other guidance available.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on October 01, 2007, 11:09:06 PM
I'm getting the feeling that by "devices" they mean anything from the RM.  Looks like the white/blues are strictly CAP insignia/badges/ribbons/devices/accoutrements/ornaments/tassels/fringe/glitter.


That is my take on it and I have not seen anything to contradict it.

Corporate / distinctive = no RealMilitary® anything.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: a2capt on October 02, 2007, 08:11:31 PM
Well.. no RM anything, the rank insignias on the TPU are RM...  hmmm..

But this thread is about ribbons.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: GaryJSO on October 05, 2007, 11:10:11 PM
Has anybody seen anything in CAP channels to figure out what ribbons NOT to wear in order to keep the top of my wings below the notch of the collar?  If I wear everything authorized by the AF and CAP, it comes to a total of 46 ribbons.  Aside from looking like a Peruvian Admiral, the top of my wings end up under my epaulet.

I make do with adding a bar of what I consider to be my 8 most significant CAP ribbons (ESA, MSA, Lifesaving, GRW, Mitchell, Find, SAR, and DR) under my AF rack in service dress and doing without on my shirt.  My JSAM is pretty much MIA in that configuration, but that is literally a small price to pay for not buying another $60 set of ultrathins.

But the guidance in 39-1 is conflicting (I know everybody is shocked) saying wear of ribbons is mandatory, but then (reasonably but still in conflict) saying you can't wear so ribbons it pushes the wings too high.

I think the USCGAux has the right idea: Auxies can choose to wear all, their top 3, or their choice of 9 ribbons.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SJFedor on October 05, 2007, 11:22:20 PM
Has anybody seen anything in CAP channels to figure out what ribbons NOT to wear in order to keep the top of my wings below the notch of the collar?  If I wear everything authorized by the AF and CAP, it comes to a total of 46 ribbons.  Aside from looking like a Peruvian Admiral, the top of my wings end up under my epaulet.

I make do with adding a bar of what I consider to be my 8 most significant CAP ribbons (ESA, MSA, Lifesaving, GRW, Mitchell, Find, SAR, and DR) under my AF rack in service dress and doing without on my shirt.  My JSAM is pretty much MIA in that configuration, but that is literally a small price to pay for not buying another $60 set of ultrathins.

But the guidance in 39-1 is conflicting (I know everybody is shocked) saying wear of ribbons is mandatory, but then (reasonably but still in conflict) saying you can't wear so ribbons it pushes the wings too high.

I think the USCGAux has the right idea: Auxies can choose to wear all, their top 3, or their choice of 9 ribbons.

I'll probably have to hit myself for suggesting this, but...

did you try 4-wide and left justification as you go higher?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: AlphaSigOU on October 06, 2007, 07:41:23 AM
Wear of ribbons are mandatory on the service dress/corporate service dress jacket. However, we senior members can either wear all or some ribbons so we don't get into that situation of having more ribbons than a Mexican general/Peruvian admiral/Venezuelan paratrooper. :)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: GaryJSO on October 06, 2007, 08:11:36 PM
I'll probably have to hit myself for suggesting this, but...

did you try 4-wide and left justification as you go higher?

Sure.  Even wearing just my 25 USAF ribbons and only 8 CAP, and wearing 4 across on my first 7 rows, the top row comes to the center of the notch on my 44L service jacket.  Wearing the other 13 CAP ribbons, as 39-1 seems to require, would violate the other part about mandatory wear of aero badges and keeping everything below the top of the notch.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on October 06, 2007, 09:35:03 PM
I'll probably have to hit myself for suggesting this, but...

did you try 4-wide and left justification as you go higher?

Sure.  Even wearing just my 25 USAF ribbons and only 8 CAP, and wearing 4 across on my first 7 rows, the top row comes to the center of the notch on my 44L service jacket.  Wearing the other 13 CAP ribbons, as 39-1 seems to require, would violate the other part about mandatory wear of aero badges and keeping everything below the top of the notch.

I have a similar problem. I have 23 USAF ribbons and 15 CAP ribbons.

What I do is wear 12 CAP ribbons and the top 4 USAF ribbons.
The USAF ribbons I wear are all individual decorations (Meritorious Service Medal, Aerial Achievement Medal, Air Force Commendation Medal and the Air Force Achievement Medal), everything else is pretty much BTDT stuff.

16 ribbons, a pair of wings and a Air Force Speciality Badge pretty much fills the space without looking too over the top.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Pylon on October 07, 2007, 02:15:05 PM
...would violate the other part about mandatory wear of aero badges and keeping everything below the top of the notch.

There's no requirement in CAP for mandatory wear of aeronautical badges. That may be a USAF rule, but you won't find it in any CAP publications.

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: capsafety on October 07, 2007, 05:18:20 PM
I thought they got rid of the requirement that they fall below the notch on the service coat at one of the past National Meetings. Anyone remember?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: chiles on October 17, 2007, 10:49:18 AM
When ordering items from Ultrathin's website, do we use the large or small stars?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: AlphaSigOU on October 17, 2007, 11:47:42 AM
When ordering items from Ultrathin's website, do we use the large or small stars?

Use the small stars.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Fifinella on October 17, 2007, 12:10:33 PM
Wear of ribbons are mandatory on the service dress/corporate service dress jacket. However, we senior members can either wear all or some ribbons so we don't get into that situation of having more ribbons than a Mexican general/Peruvian admiral/Venezuelan paratrooper. :)

What he said...CAPR 39-1, p.16: 5. Ribbons:  (required) Worn centered above left breast welt, resting on but not over top edge with 3 or 4 in a row.  Wear all or some.  All ribbons and devices must fall below the top notch of the collar.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SAR-EMT1 on October 19, 2007, 01:02:54 PM
Does Ultrathin stock CAP and / or USCG-Aux ribbons?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on October 19, 2007, 01:26:06 PM
Yes, and they look beautiful when they are done, but its not cheap, especially if you are at a point in your CAP career where they are changing regularly.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Grumpy on October 19, 2007, 02:16:06 PM
Does Ultrathin stock CAP and / or USCG-Aux ribbons?

Yes, and they look beautiful when they are done, but its not cheap, especially if you are at a point in your CAP career where they are changing regularly.

I purchased the ultra thin ribbons at the wing conference two years ago.  They ran about $50.00 for all my Federal, State and CAP ribbons.  They look great!  Just don't add any more ribbons because you'll have to purchase everything all over again and that's expensive  each time you add one.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jb512 on October 19, 2007, 06:01:26 PM
Does Ultrathin stock CAP and / or USCG-Aux ribbons?

Yes, and they look beautiful when they are done, but its not cheap, especially if you are at a point in your CAP career where they are changing regularly.

I purchased the ultra thin ribbons at the wing conference two years ago.  They ran about $50.00 for all my Federal, State and CAP ribbons.  They look great!  Just don't add any more ribbons because you'll have to purchase everything all over again and that's expensive  each time you add one.

Or, you can purchase your first set, then buy a second when you get a new pretty ribbon.  Send the first set back to them when you get another, and they'll fix it up for ya and you won't have to purchase the whole thing all over again.  There's a cost, but you can leapfrog them and it's not near as expensive as it is to buy a whole new rack.  Devices you can attach yourself.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Grumpy on October 20, 2007, 03:22:50 AM
Hey, thanks for the info.  Maybe I can pay off that second mortgage now.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Cecil DP on October 20, 2007, 03:29:55 AM
Does Ultrathin stock CAP and / or USCG-Aux ribbons?

Yes, and they look beautiful when they are done, but its not cheap, especially if you are at a point in your CAP career where they are changing regularly.

I purchased the ultra thin ribbons at the wing conference two years ago.  They ran about $50.00 for all my Federal, State and CAP ribbons.  They look great!  Just don't add any more ribbons because you'll have to purchase everything all over again and that's expensive  each time you add one.

Can't wear State awards on the CAP uniform.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Hawk200 on October 20, 2007, 10:54:34 AM
Can't wear State awards on the CAP uniform.

Used to be allowed, and the allowance was quietly removed with the latest rendition. Since a lot of people don't read the new manuals entirely when it comes out, they don't know any better, and just keep wearing things the old way.

Whether or not people think it's right is another story altogether. I think it's screwy that you can wear foreign ribbons, but not state ones. Of course there are the inevitable (and inaccurate) arguments that state awards are "easier" to get. A lot of times the State award is harder to get through a board than the equivalent Federal dec. But that's a different story.

I know of one wing where the state TAG awarded a state dec to CAP members for some kind of joint operation with the National Guard. How does that look to tell the state, "Gee thanks for the ribbons, but we're not going to wear them.."?

And in other cases, a lot of CAP personnel don't know the difference. How can you tell someone they can't wear a State award when they don't know any better, and don't read the manual anyway?

I'd be willing to bet that most CAP members that don't frequent boards like ours are completely ignorant of what actually is authorized.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Grumpy on October 20, 2007, 11:28:46 AM
Oh man!  Now you guys did it.  That means I have to get rid of my favorite ribbon, The Battle if Med Fly.
Tis a sad thing.   :(

It's funny I could do all that time in the guard/reserve and wind up with an Air Force retirement check but  can't wear a ribbon on my CAP uniform.

I shall get it a proper military burial.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jb512 on October 20, 2007, 11:45:01 AM
Oh man!  Now you guys did it.  That means I have to get rid of my favorite ribbon, The Battle if Med Fly.
Tis a sad thing.   :(

It's funny I could do all that time in the guard/reserve and wind up with an Air Force retirement check but  can't wear a ribbon on my CAP uniform.

I shall get it a proper military burial.

How are you going to pin that ribbon on your golf shirt, mr. grumpy?   ;)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Grumpy on October 20, 2007, 01:18:12 PM
Ya know, I didn't think about that one.  Do you think we could create a squadron supplemental to 39-1 to the affect that we could wear one state ribbon centered above the pocket of the golf shirt?  Then I could keep my Med Fly ribbon.   ;D

Guess not.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: AlphaSigOU on October 20, 2007, 01:47:16 PM
Does Ultrathin stock CAP and / or USCG-Aux ribbons?

Yup. The only one they don't stock right now is the new 'Blue Hornet' - aka the National Commander's Unit Citation. You will need to send 'em an NCUC ribbon for mounting. It's placed before the 'Green Weenie' (Unit Citation) but after the Certificate of Recognition for Lifesaving.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Cecil DP on October 20, 2007, 11:04:45 PM
Does Ultrathin stock CAP and / or USCG-Aux ribbons?

Yup. The only one they don't stock right now is the new 'Blue Hornet' - aka the National Commander's Unit Citation. You will need to send 'em an NCUC ribbon for mounting. It's placed before the 'Green Weenie' (Unit Citation) but after the Certificate of Recognition for Lifesaving.

You mean the one they plagerized from the Navy Expeditionary Medal
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: vmpraie on November 09, 2007, 08:46:13 AM
Please advise how I can gain access to the link.  I have browsed through the postings for this topic and have been unable to open the attachment.  Thanks!
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: MIKE on November 09, 2007, 11:07:30 AM
Do you have Adobe Reader (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html) installed?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: vmpraie on November 09, 2007, 02:05:06 PM
Do you have Adobe Reader (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html) installed?

Yes, I even checked the Adobe website for any updates and still have not been able to access the information.  Please email me the file if you have it saved.  Much appreciated.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: AlphaSigOU on November 10, 2007, 01:47:22 PM
Do you have Adobe Reader (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html) installed?

Yes, I even checked the Adobe website for any updates and still have not been able to access the information.  Please email me the file if you have it saved.  Much appreciated.

PM me your e-mail addy so I can send you a copy, if you haven't already gotten it from someone else.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: thp on November 22, 2007, 09:36:42 PM
For easy checking on order of CAP ribbons:
CADETS:http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/check_cdt.html (http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/check_cdt.html)
SENIORS:http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/check_sr.html (http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/check_sr.html)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: CAP_truth on December 07, 2007, 09:56:18 PM
I have some ribbons award as a member of CAP that I can not even wear on my uniform because national headquarters has disconnected the wearing of them. I don't remember the RM ever doing that with awards why do we.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: mikeylikey on December 07, 2007, 10:32:54 PM
^ Example?  I think if you earned it, it is allowed, or at least you wear the equivalent. 

Are you talking about old ribbons, or ribbons and awards that can no longer be earned? 

I think I remember NHQ saying years ago that if you were a member, earned an award or ribbon that is no longer awardable, you can still wear as long as you have documentation as to the award. 

Maybe I am just slow on the uptake......but sure what you mean??
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Grumpy on December 08, 2007, 12:44:17 AM
You can wear the highest cadet ribbon awarded to you.  In this case, I believe it is your Cadet COP.  (Blue ribbon with prop and 3 horizontal lines on each side of it)  I got mine in January 1963 and I wear it.  When asked what it is I refer to it as my "old fart ribbon" because was discontinues in '63 or '64.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: arajca on December 08, 2007, 11:32:42 AM
For easy checking on order of CAP ribbons:
CADETS:http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/check_cdt.html (http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/check_cdt.html)
SENIORS:http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/check_sr.html (http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/check_sr.html)
For those who have military ribbons, use the following:
U.S. Decorations Ribbon Rack Builder (http://www.medals.lava.pl/us/uschk.htm).

Has all the services, plus US civilian awards, national Guard, and some foreign awards.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Grumpy on December 08, 2007, 12:59:25 PM
You can wear the highest cadet ribbon awarded to you.  In this case, I believe it is your Cadet COP.  (Blue ribbon with prop and 3 horizontal lines on each side of it)  I got mine in January 1963 and I wear it.  When asked what it is I refer to it as my "old fart ribbon" because was discontinues in '63 or '64.

Boy, sure messed up the spelling on that!  My two fingers used to be pretty fast and accurate.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Stonewall on December 08, 2007, 01:42:50 PM
Simply a question, not trying to topic drift, but didn't Chuck post some other PDF guides elsewhere on CAP Talk?

Was looking at using them as a reference for some classes I'm teaching.

Hooah and thanks.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: AlphaSigOU on December 08, 2007, 05:50:26 PM
Simply a question, not trying to topic drift, but didn't Chuck post some other PDF guides elsewhere on CAP Talk?

Was looking at using them as a reference for some classes I'm teaching.

Hooah and thanks.

If you can't find 'em in search, shoot me a PM.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: baronet68 on December 08, 2007, 06:34:58 PM
For easy checking on order of CAP ribbons:
CADETS:http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/check_cdt.html (http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/check_cdt.html)
SENIORS:http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/check_sr.html (http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/check_sr.html)
For those who have military ribbons, use the following:
U.S. Decorations Ribbon Rack Builder (http://www.medals.lava.pl/us/uschk.htm).

Has all the services, plus US civilian awards, national Guard, and some foreign awards.

CAP only:
http://www.mcchord.org/rack_builder/
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jason.pennington on December 13, 2007, 03:11:28 PM
Where can I find ribbon mounts that are 4 ribbons wide?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: MIKE on December 13, 2007, 03:15:08 PM
The Hock Shop (http://www.thehock.com) SKU Number:6890
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Bear Walling on January 19, 2008, 07:15:13 PM
Quick question... I am just recently coming back into CAP as the Commander of a "rechartered" squadron (Or will be upon my return from Iraq. Civilian Firefighter there by stupidity). I was wondering if I can wear my Curry Achievement from when I was in before (I have been out for close to seven years)?

Also, is there like a service ribbon I can wear because of my time in Iraq?

Thanks
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: arajca on January 19, 2008, 07:51:08 PM
Curry: Can you document it? If so, yes, if not, no.

Special Service Ribbon: No.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Bear Walling on January 20, 2008, 04:52:29 AM
Like I said, I have been out for seven years... And I have already noticed that it is not the same CAP as it was before. But change is good.

I do not have any documentation on that. The former squadron leadership dropped the bomb when it came to paperwork (That contributed to the shutdown). But I wonder, would National HQ have anything on file regarding my paperwork from then?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SarDragon on January 20, 2008, 05:02:03 AM
Like I said, I have been out for seven years... And I have already noticed that it is not the same CAP as it was before. But change is good.

I do not have any documentation on that. The former squadron leadership dropped the bomb when it came to paperwork (That contributed to the shutdown). But I wonder, would National HQ have anything on file regarding my paperwork from then?

Only cadet milestones are tracked by NHQ, particularly back then (pre-MIMS). They might have other stuff, like join date, etc.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: teesquared on January 20, 2008, 01:48:37 PM
Does Ultrathin stock CAP and / or USCG-Aux ribbons?

Yup. The only one they don't stock right now is the new 'Blue Hornet' - aka the National Commander's Unit Citation. You will need to send 'em an NCUC ribbon for mounting. It's placed before the 'Green Weenie' (Unit Citation) but after the Certificate of Recognition for Lifesaving.

They do stock it (NCUC), they just don't show it (yet) in their web site. I have gotten the NCUC from them.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jpnelson82 on March 30, 2008, 09:42:16 PM
very cool, and useful little .pdf. I still have a question. As I read the manual only the highest award earned as a cadet may be worn on a Senior member's uniform. My cadet unit (GA- 116 aka PTC-FF Comp Sqdn.) earned the green commander's commendation ribbon, does that outweigh my Earhart ribbon?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: ßτε on March 30, 2008, 10:27:07 PM
very cool, and useful little .pdf. I still have a question. As I read the manual only the highest award earned as a cadet may be worn on a Senior member's uniform. My cadet unit (GA- 116 aka PTC-FF Comp Sqdn.) earned the green commander's commendation ribbon, does that outweigh my Earhart ribbon?

You would wear the Earhart as your highest cadet award and the Unit Citation (not commander's commendation), provided you have some way to prove you were in that unit at the time it was awarded. You may also wear your encampment ribbon, and any other decoration and most activity and service awards provided you have documentation.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: JayT on April 03, 2008, 02:38:52 PM
very cool, and useful little .pdf. I still have a question. As I read the manual only the highest award earned as a cadet may be worn on a Senior member's uniform. My cadet unit (GA- 116 aka PTC-FF Comp Sqdn.) earned the green commander's commendation ribbon, does that outweigh my Earhart ribbon?

Don't look at it from the perpective of "Ribbons I earned as a cadet." Some ribbons are awarded to all members.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DeputyDog on April 04, 2008, 12:09:30 PM
I found an error in the guide. For the Search "Find" Ribbon it is 20 non-distress finds to earn the bronze triangular clasp.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: ThorntonOL on June 13, 2008, 11:35:02 AM
I have a couple ribbon questios...
1. I went to encampment as a cadet and it is recorded, now i am a senior, do I still wear that ribbon?

2. The last cadet ribbon i earned was the Lindbergh Achievement, am I allowed to wear that as it is my highest cadet ribbon?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Pylon on June 13, 2008, 11:39:54 AM
I have a couple ribbon questios...
1. I went to encampment as a cadet and it is recorded, now i am a senior, do I still wear that ribbon?

Yes, encampment ribbons are awarded to both senior members and cadets.

2. The last cadet ribbon i earned was the Lindbergh Achievement, am I allowed to wear that as it is my highest cadet ribbon?

Yes, simply ensure some sort of documentation for your Lindbergh is in your file.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: ThorntonOL on June 13, 2008, 11:40:45 AM
One addtional Question...

I also was a CAC rep to group as a cadet, does that ribbon also continue to be worn?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: MIKE on June 13, 2008, 12:26:23 PM
It can be... as authorized by ICL, provided you were an authorized cadet rep when group became a recognized echelon... Again, with supporting documentation.  I still have the CAPF 2As for my time on MAWG CAC.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: ThorntonOL on June 13, 2008, 12:37:17 PM
Going back to the encampment ribbon, having recieved as a cadet upon me haveing become a senior I do not have to go to another encampment to earn another one? The same one can still be worn? (I plan on attending another one but am clarifying the previous answer to my question.)

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on June 13, 2008, 12:54:42 PM
If you go to another encampment as a senior member then you will add a bronze triangular clasp to your ribbon.
You do not wear a second ribbon for going to an encampment as a senior.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Pylon on June 13, 2008, 01:20:22 PM
Yes, as PHall stated, you keep the encampment ribbon you previously earned.  Should you choose to attend future encampments, upon receiving credit for attending you may add the appropriate clasps.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SarDragon on June 13, 2008, 06:19:03 PM
Also, if it doesn't show up in your online record, you can scan and email proof, and they will enter it. Did that for both my encampments.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: IceNine on July 24, 2008, 11:55:20 PM
Interesting thing just happened and it got me looking.

A newsletter came out in my wing stating that one of our 50 year members just completed his 60th encampment.  I know holy crap right.

Anyway.  In order for him to accurately represent this on his ribbon rack he would wear 3? encampment ribbons with 4 silver tri's each? or 2 with 4 silver and 1 with 3 silver and 1 bronze until he reaches 63?

I heard somewhere but cannot confirm that star's replace tri's at some level.  Something like a silver star=50 bronze tri's or something of that sort. Again, no reg can be found on that myth.



Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: lordmonar on July 25, 2008, 12:25:58 AM
He would wear three ribbons

1 ribbon + 4 Silver=21
1 ribbon + 4 silver=21
1 ribbon + 3 Silver + 2 Bronse=18

18+21+21=60
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: IceNine on July 25, 2008, 12:29:16 AM
you can only wear 4 attachments per ribbon so the last would be 3 silver 1 bronze right??
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: AlphaSigOU on August 10, 2008, 08:08:49 PM
Updated guide to include the new Achievement Award. Mods/admins: please replace the old one at the top of this thread for this revised edition.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jb512 on August 12, 2008, 12:41:34 AM
One would think a legitimate lifesaving award would go above an achievement medal or comm comm....
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: AlphaSigOU on August 12, 2008, 06:12:46 AM
One would think a legitimate lifesaving award would go above an achievement medal or comm comm....

True... but that's where the Lifesaving ribbon got stuck ever since its inception in the late 1970s.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: C JMeyer on October 30, 2008, 02:12:41 PM
Well done thank you.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Grumpy on October 30, 2008, 04:12:36 PM
Updated guide to include the new Achievement Award. Mods/admins: please replace the old one at the top of this thread for this revised edition.

Capt. Corway, that is one of the nicest, if not THE BEST, examples of the proper wearing on ribbons I have seen.  I certainly hope the people at National Hqtrs use it.  I especially enjoyed the vivid color examples of the ribbons.  Well done!   :clap:  :clap:  :clap:
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SilverEagle2 on October 30, 2008, 05:25:55 PM
One correction...

The predecessor of the Eaker was the Earhart with a SILVER Triangular clasp rather than a Bronze.

I was told that those who wish to wear the Eaker equivalent as a mini medal since no Eaker mini medal exists yet, they can accomplish this by adding the silver triangular clasp to your Earhart mini medal.

Just a thought
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: MIKE on October 30, 2008, 05:34:27 PM
Which would not be in keeping with the current CAPR 39-3 or CAPM 39-1.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SilverEagle2 on October 30, 2008, 05:46:44 PM
How's that?

Has it been declared as obsolete?

If so, where?

The direction I was given was that it was still a legit representation of Phase IV completion if awarded prior to the Eaker creation.

The solution of course is creating an Eaker mini medal.

Willing to learn, just have not seen it in the regs, knowledgebase, etc.

Thanks,
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on October 30, 2008, 06:07:28 PM
The solution of course is creating an Eaker mini medal.

Willing to learn, just have not seen it in the regs, knowledgebase, etc.

If its not in the regs, its not, whether it "should be" is irrelevant.

We don't just make up home made insignia no matter how appropriate it may be.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SilverEagle2 on October 30, 2008, 06:18:27 PM
I agree completely.

However, this item was not a "home made" solution. It was at one point a legitimate equivalant.

I can buy that the Eaker now superseeds the prior CAP outlined configuration.

Thanks for setting me straight.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jimmydeanno on October 31, 2008, 07:59:22 AM
IIRC, the proposal for an Eaker mini medal has already been passed, however, no design or authorization to manufacture it has been implimented.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on December 01, 2008, 02:41:04 AM
Paging CAPHistorian...  can someone get off the schneid and do the Eaker mini medal?

I'm wearing a clasp on my Earhart mini medal because that was regulation before the Eaker came around... my Eaker is back-dated and not numbered, which means that on my service dress, I wore a clasped Earhart. Still have one on my mess dress.

Speaking of mini medals -- in CAP, every medal, award and ribbon has a companion mini medal for the mess dress. How did medal creep happen? I've been called "General" by Real Air Force officers because of the number of medals on my mess dress, and none of them are medals -- by real military standards, I'd have no medals on my uniform since only medals have mess dress equivalents.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: capsafety on December 01, 2008, 09:10:09 AM
Paging CAPHistorian...  can someone get off the schneid and do the Eaker mini medal?

I will inquire!
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on December 01, 2008, 05:17:03 PM
Paging CAPHistorian...  can someone get off the schneid and do the Eaker mini medal?

I will inquire!

You, sir, are The Man.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: airdad on December 04, 2008, 05:45:08 PM
Quote
Speaking of mini medals -- in CAP, every medal, award and ribbon has a companion mini medal for the mess dress. How did medal creep happen? I've been called "General" by Real Air Force officers because of the number of medals on my mess dress, and none of them are medals -- by real military standards, I'd have no medals on my uniform since only medals have mess dress equivalents.
close, but not entirely accurate.  Cadet O pilot and Nat'l Special Activities awards (that I know of specifically, as I have earned those) have no mini medal (so I only look like a third World Dictator as it is)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PlaneFlyr on January 08, 2009, 03:31:28 PM
Paging CAPHistorian...  can someone get off the schneid and do the Eaker mini medal?

I will inquire!

Jim,
I already have some rough sketches for Eaker, CN/CD, and Wright Bros.  Let me know if you'd like me to email them to you.  (No, I'm not going to post them on CapTalk, because I don't want to draw that much ire.  I'd probably get beat up in a parking lot somewhere because someone thought "the eagles head should face the opposite way from my sketches".)
Todd
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on January 08, 2009, 04:10:47 PM
Paging CAPHistorian...  can someone get off the schneid and do the Eaker mini medal?

I will inquire!

Jim,
I already have some rough sketches for Eaker, CN/CD, and Wright Bros.  Let me know if you'd like me to email them to you.  (No, I'm not going to post them on CapTalk, because I don't want to draw that much ire.  I'd probably get beat up in a parking lot somewhere because someone thought "the eagles head should face the opposite way from my sketches".)
Todd


I can tell you already, the eagles are facing the wrong way.

Now you can go ahead and post 'em.

 ;D

But why a Wright Brothers mini medal? For anything below the Mitchell, yeah, they have ribbons, but....
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jimmydeanno on January 08, 2009, 04:44:12 PM
But why a Wright Brothers mini medal? For anything below the Mitchell, yeah, they have ribbons, but....

I've seen a few seniors that wear an Arnold or their Rickenbacker.  I'm sure they'd be thrilled to have a WB mini-medal.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: lordmonar on January 08, 2009, 04:58:18 PM
But why a Wright Brothers mini medal? For anything below the Mitchell, yeah, they have ribbons, but....

The WB is a Milestone Award Just like Mithcell, Earheart, Eaker and Spaatz...so if you got one for those then you should have one for Wright Brothers.

If you say WB is not deserving of a min medal....then you open to the door to someone saying the Mitchell/Earhear/Eaker is also not deserving.

Six of one/Half dozen of the other.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: ThorntonOL on January 08, 2009, 05:19:12 PM
This is where it gets intresting, do all senior members who earned up to that rank as a cadet before becoming dark side before it became a milestone get to wear it? Or is it only for those who have earned it after it became a milestone?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Pylon on January 08, 2009, 10:53:16 PM
This is where it gets intresting, do all senior members who earned up to that rank as a cadet before becoming dark side before it became a milestone get to wear it? Or is it only for those who have earned it after it became a milestone?

You can wear your highest cadet achievement or award on your uniform as a senior member.  The only ones that have medals are the milestone awards (though WBA & Eaker don't have one yet).  The reg isn't 100% clear on this but since you can still wear the Wright Brothers ribbon if you earned it as an achievement, you would be authorized to wear the medal if that was your highest achievement.  But if you earned higher than the Wright Brothers Achievement (say, Goddard) then it becomes even more of a gray area because the Wright Brothers wasn't technically "your highest."  It would seem one strict interpretation of the regs would indicate you wear none.   It needs a little clarification.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on January 09, 2009, 12:16:09 AM
But why a Wright Brothers mini medal? For anything below the Mitchell, yeah, they have ribbons, but....

I've seen a few seniors that wear an Arnold or their Rickenbacker.  I'm sure they'd be thrilled to have a WB mini-medal.

Sorry, old-school cadet here. To me, Wright Brothers is still Achievement 3, so I have a difficult time recognizing it as a "milestone" now.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: lordmonar on January 09, 2009, 01:08:19 AM
I got a fix..... ;D

Instead of ribbons for each of the achievments and milestones.  Lets just have 1 ribbon/medal and the Spaatz.

We call it the cadet training medal and they get a pip for each achievement.

If you want we can make 4 different ribbons one for each phase and the Spaatz.

Cuts down on the bling cadets still get a ribbon as soon as possible and the get more as they move up.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Timbo on January 09, 2009, 01:12:17 AM
^ Get rid of Cadet bling, and some Cadets would walk.  Cadets like that kind of stuff!
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on January 09, 2009, 01:54:23 AM
^ Get rid of Cadet bling, and some Cadets would walk.  Cadets like that kind of stuff!

If all that's keeping them around is the bling, then I have no problem in seeing them go.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: IceNine on January 09, 2009, 02:08:27 AM
 :clap:

Get REAL.

 Find me 1, just 1 cadet in the entire organization that would stay if you took away their ribbons. If those ribbons help us keep them then give them more. 

WHO CARES if a little piece of cloth help a 13 YOA kid  feel that cleaning up the meeting place, and parking cars for money, and all of the really crappy things that these cadets line up to do were appreciated.  If it takes an $0.85 piece of cloth, or a box of doughnuts, or whatever that's what I'll do.

And that's what we should all do.

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Timbo on January 09, 2009, 02:23:36 AM
If all that's keeping them around is the bling, then I have no problem in seeing them go.

Wow.  You must not work with Cadets.  Reward is a major part of the Cadet Program.  (It is amusing to watch someone discuss something they know nothing about) 

:clap:

Get REAL.

 Find me 1, just 1 cadet in the entire organization that would stay if you took away their ribbons. If those ribbons help us keep them then give them more. 

WHO CARES if a little piece of cloth help a 13 YOA kid  feel that cleaning up the meeting place, and parking cars for money, and all of the really crappy things that these cadets line up to do were appreciated.  If it takes an $0.85 piece of cloth, or a box of doughnuts, or whatever that's what I'll do.

And that's what we should all do.

I agree 100 percent.  If we are too go by PHall's attitude we should eliminate all awards for Seniors as well.  I bet after a year of being in a "no thanks" type of organization, we would see a fall in membership numbers. 

The awards and ribbons and bling are present to make all of us feel better about what we are doing.  It is our pay.  Some say "I feel good just helping my community", and they should but not showing our appreciation toward our fellow members is one way to find ourselves in desperate need of members. 

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on January 09, 2009, 02:24:35 AM
:clap:

Get REAL.

 Find me 1, just 1 cadet in the entire organization that would stay if you took away their ribbons. If those ribbons help us keep them then give them more. 

WHO CARES if a little piece of cloth help a 13 YOA kid  feel that cleaning up the meeting place, and parking cars for money, and all of the really crappy things that these cadets line up to do were appreciated.  If it takes an $0.85 piece of cloth, or a box of doughnuts, or whatever that's what I'll do.

And that's what we should all do.




Funny, way back in 1970 when they decided that when you got your Mitchell you had to take off all of your achievement ribbons, I don't recall losing many cadets.

I think you underestimate cadets.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Timbo on January 09, 2009, 02:26:47 AM
Funny, way back in 1970 when they decided that when you got your Mitchell you had to take off all of your achievement ribbons, I don't recall losing many cadets.

I think you underestimate cadets.

hmmm.......not that way anymore is it?!?!  Yes for Seniors.....you don't wear all your earned Cadet Ribbons, but for the Cadets they get to wear all of them until they become a Senior, so your logic is flawed
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on January 09, 2009, 02:35:37 AM
Funny, way back in 1970 when they decided that when you got your Mitchell you had to take off all of your achievement ribbons, I don't recall losing many cadets.

I think you underestimate cadets.

hmmm.......not that way anymore is it?!?!  Yes for Seniors.....you don't wear all your earned Cadet Ribbons, but for the Cadets they get to wear all of them until they become a Senior, so your logic is flawed

No, got a new National Commander who reversed the previous Commander's ribbon reduction program.

But my point was that if cadets didn't know that they got a ribbon for each promotion they wouldn't miss it.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: IceNine on January 09, 2009, 02:38:07 AM
:clap:

Get REAL.

 Find me 1, just 1 cadet in the entire organization that would stay if you took away their ribbons. If those ribbons help us keep them then give them more. 

WHO CARES if a little piece of cloth help a 13 YOA kid  feel that cleaning up the meeting place, and parking cars for money, and all of the really crappy things that these cadets line up to do were appreciated.  If it takes an $0.85 piece of cloth, or a box of doughnuts, or whatever that's what I'll do.

And that's what we should all do.




Funny, way back in 1970 when they decided that when you got your Mitchell you had to take off all of your achievement ribbons, I don't recall losing many cadets.

I think you underestimate cadets.

I underestimate nothing.  You are posting 2 seperate arguments.

Don't try to construe telling cadet officers that they only get to wear their Mitchell. 

With telling C/A1C Snuffy that he can't wear his Curry and Arnold. 

These are 2 entirely different arguments.  And the argument of 40 years ago when this happened is ridiculous too. 

Saying that the lives of cadets today is even in the same galaxy as life in the seventies is laughable at best. 
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: JayT on January 09, 2009, 04:40:17 AM
So is this arguement...........
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SAR-EMT1 on January 10, 2009, 10:51:35 PM
Will make folks yawn in 2020
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on January 10, 2009, 11:59:57 PM
When I was a cadet officer, I remember the occasional obligation to wear ribbons on my shirt. So I did...

The top three, that is. A unit citation, commander's commendation and an Earhart, all three with at least one clasp (this was pre-Eaker). Hey, I wore ribbons, like they wanted. I just didn't wear them all. I hated wearing ribbons on my shirt. Still do.

So why should this should be a great concern to cadets? Not sure. (They're probably more preoccupied with getting their own service caps and wearing them every chance they get....)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DBlair on March 23, 2009, 08:07:57 PM
According to this guide, SDF ribbons are allowed? Is this true?

I thought awards/ribbons had to be Federally-awarded in order for them to be worn on the CAP uniform.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: RiverAux on March 23, 2009, 08:10:39 PM
According to what guide? 
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DBlair on March 23, 2009, 08:24:11 PM
According to what guide? 

The guide posted in the original post of this thread.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on March 23, 2009, 08:53:52 PM
According to what guide? 

The guide posted in the original post of this thread.

You mean the guide that was prepared by a member that has absolutely no authority at all? (Sorry Chuck.)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DBlair on March 23, 2009, 08:57:04 PM
According to what guide? 

The guide posted in the original post of this thread.

You mean the guide that was prepared by a member that has absolutely no authority at all? (Sorry Chuck.)

Ahh, ok. I just scanned over it briefly and it appeared to look official so I mistakenly assumed it was an official CAP publication. (No offense to the author)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: mc2 on October 18, 2009, 12:41:19 AM
Question: Can a CAP cadet refuse to accept award, or would they violate the 'All or None" rule for ribbons?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SarDragon on October 18, 2009, 02:00:28 AM
Why would you want to refuse to accept an award?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: exFlight Officer on October 18, 2009, 02:08:35 AM
Why would you refuse the award mc2 ?  I believe it depends on the sitaution.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Hawk200 on October 18, 2009, 06:04:38 AM
Question: Can a CAP cadet refuse to accept award, or would they violate the 'All or None" rule for ribbons?

It probably sounds better to "decline" an award, not refuse it.

If you decline an award, then you wouldn't officialy have it: so no, you wouldn't be violating the "all or none" rule.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: mdickinson on October 18, 2009, 07:41:43 AM
Why would you want to refuse to accept an award?

I'm no expert on military etiquette, but I wonder if it's proper to decline an award that someone is giving you. Perhaps a veteran on the board can comment.

Certainly most cadets wouldn't ever decline an award. A few different circumstances come to mind when a cadet might consider it, such as:

(note, I'm not defending any of these as logical or good reasons; just trying to imagine what he might be thinking)

1. The cadet feels the award is unjustified (e.g., a commander's commendation for just showing up at a 1-day activity or finding one ELT)
2. He feels that others (one or more buddies) were not recognized (e.g. he is getting an award as the flight commander, but his flight sergeant is not)
3. He is getting an award that his friends are not, and doesn't want to be accused of being a suck-up
4. He can't afford the cost of a new ribbon rack to hold all those awards! :-)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Cecil DP on October 18, 2009, 08:41:52 AM
Why would you want to refuse to accept an award?

I'm no expert on military etiquette, but I wonder if it's proper to decline an award that someone is giving you. Perhaps a veteran on the board can comment.

Certainly most cadets wouldn't ever decline an award. A few different circumstances come to mind when a cadet might consider it, such as:

(note, I'm not defending any of these as logical or good reasons; just trying to imagine what he might be thinking)

1. The cadet feels the award is unjustified (e.g., a commander's commendation for just showing up at a 1-day activity or finding one ELT)
2. He feels that others (one or more buddies) were not recognized (e.g. he is getting an award as the flight commander, but his flight sergeant is not)
3. He is getting an award that his friends are not, and doesn't want to be accused of being a suck-up
4. He can't afford the cost of a new ribbon rack to hold all those awards! :-)
In 1914 a Major S.D. Butler, USMC refused to accept his Medal of Honor for heroism at Vera Cruz Mexico. He was subsequently told that he was to accept it and wear it. The following year he received a second one for actions in Haiti. He went on to become a Major General at the age of 36 and commanded Marine Forces in China in the 20's and 30's.

Awards are gven to recognize not only your actions, but to encourage others to step up and achieve a similar high standards.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Hawk200 on October 18, 2009, 11:08:14 AM
I'm no expert on military etiquette, but I wonder if it's proper to decline an award that someone is giving you. Perhaps a veteran on the board can comment.

Certainly most cadets wouldn't ever decline an award. A few different circumstances come to mind when a cadet might consider it, such as:

(note, I'm not defending any of these as logical or good reasons; just trying to imagine what he might be thinking)

1. The cadet feels the award is unjustified (e.g., a commander's commendation for just showing up at a 1-day activity or finding one ELT)
2. He feels that others (one or more buddies) were not recognized (e.g. he is getting an award as the flight commander, but his flight sergeant is not)
3. He is getting an award that his friends are not, and doesn't want to be accused of being a suck-up
4. He can't afford the cost of a new ribbon rack to hold all those awards! :-)

I've only know of two occurances in twenty years of military time. One an officer, the other a senior NCO. Both were for option 2.

As to whether it's proper, it's not really an issue. A person can expunge decorations later if they wish.  I've heard of that happening more often than declinations. People have their reasons, it's not really anyone elses place to judge. Others might be curious, but it's not up to them.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: mc2 on October 18, 2009, 12:16:12 PM
I was merely curious
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Gunner C on October 18, 2009, 03:30:43 PM
Here's an important point - it should be done either ahead of time or after the presentation.  Don't ever embarrass an awarding official by turning down an award at the ceremony.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: mc2 on October 18, 2009, 10:41:08 PM
very well thanks
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Spike on October 19, 2009, 12:30:25 AM
I once asked a West Point Cadet what his ribbon was he was wearing.  His reply, "oh , um that is what we get when we get accepted to West Point".  The military does throw around too many awards and ribbons to people have no clue why they got them or what they are for.

Can anyone guess what ribbon he was wearing?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: exFlight Officer on October 19, 2009, 01:09:23 AM
I earned my ribbons from AFJROTC and when I graduated, I found out I could not wear them on my CAP uniform with my two ribbons from CAP. Bummed. Suppose that is fair seeing that I am not in AFJROTC anymore.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: NCRblues on October 19, 2009, 01:44:55 AM
I once asked a West Point Cadet what his ribbon was he was wearing.  His reply, "oh , um that is what we get when we get accepted to West Point".  The military does throw around too many awards and ribbons to people have no clue why they got them or what they are for.

Can anyone guess what ribbon he was wearing?

National Defense Service Medal?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jb512 on October 19, 2009, 02:25:40 AM
I once asked a West Point Cadet what his ribbon was he was wearing.  His reply, "oh , um that is what we get when we get accepted to West Point".  The military does throw around too many awards and ribbons to people have no clue why they got them or what they are for.

Can anyone guess what ribbon he was wearing?

National Defense Service Medal?

That's my guess too.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Cecil DP on October 19, 2009, 02:44:49 AM
I once asked a West Point Cadet what his ribbon was he was wearing.  His reply, "oh , um that is what we get when we get accepted to West Point".  The military does throw around too many awards and ribbons to people have no clue why they got them or what they are for.

Can anyone guess what ribbon he was wearing?

National Defense Service Medal?

That's my guess too.


Or the Army Service Ribbon.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jb512 on October 19, 2009, 02:54:46 AM
I could be wrong but I don't think the Army Service Ribbon would be given until after completion of the academy.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Spike on October 19, 2009, 05:41:55 AM
I once asked a West Point Cadet what his ribbon was he was wearing.  His reply, "oh , um that is what we get when we get accepted to West Point".  The military does throw around too many awards and ribbons to people have no clue why they got them or what they are for.

Can anyone guess what ribbon he was wearing?

National Defense Service Medal?

Correct.  You win! 
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: NCRblues on October 19, 2009, 08:09:59 AM
 ;D yes! what do i get?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Gunner C on October 19, 2009, 08:10:49 AM
I could be wrong but I don't think the Army Service Ribbon would be given until after completion of the academy.
Nope.  They don't get that until they finish their officer basic course at their branch school. They're just barely officers then.  ;D

Gunner Story:

In my first battalion, our commander LTC Joe Cincotti (SF historic figure) always led the battalion on a 5 mile run on Wednesdays.  After the end of one of these, before turning the battalion back over to the CSM he called out "ALL OFFICERS AND LIEUTENANTS SEE ME AFTERWARDS BEHIND THE FORMATION."  In a formation of NCOs, there wasn't a straight face in the bunch.  As the formation deteriorated into laughter, the CSM had us fall out.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Mission/Tow Pilot on October 20, 2009, 01:32:51 AM
15 years in the Canadian Air Force (Canadian Forces) and I received one lovely Canadian Forces Decoration (12 years of undetected crime).  Now with just under a year in CAP I earned my fourth ribbon for a non-distress find on Saturday.

Since I can't couldn't wear it officially on my mess dress with my two CAP medals, I wore it on the backside of my lapel, and flashed the Queen to my friends :O

Nothing like a little Chest Cabbage to make one feel good :)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Gunner C on October 20, 2009, 09:12:22 AM
If you can find a miniature for the Canadian award, why couldn't you wear it?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on October 20, 2009, 09:44:54 AM
If you can find a miniature for the Canadian award, why couldn't you wear it?

I'm guessing it's because it's a foreign decoration not authorized for wear on an American military uniform. But that's me just taking a quick stab at it, a partially educated guess.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on October 20, 2009, 09:55:35 AM
Haven't buzzed the regs in a while but...

Page 3 of CAPR 39-3

Quote from:
3 b. Decorations, ribbons, and badges authorized for
wear on the US Air Force uniform may be worn on the
CAP uniform when earned through qualification and
awarded by competent authority to a member for service
performed in any branch of the Armed Forces of the
United States or its allies. (Foreign decorations, ribbons,
badges, etc., awarded in writing to a member not in the
Armed Forces of the United States may also be worn if
approved by National Headquarters.) Aeronautical
badges, emblems, insignia, ribbons, etc., given by a
foreign government, or agency, as souvenirs or emblems
of friendship do not qualify as earned awards and will not
be worn on the CAP uniform. All cases where doubt
exists as to the propriety of a badge, medal or other
device being worn will be referred to National
Headquarters for decision.

Man that felt good!
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Mission/Tow Pilot on October 20, 2009, 11:11:18 AM
It appears that I need permission from NHQ to wear the award.  I think I'll wait until I have at least a year of service before I cause more waves.

No one likes a trouble maker, and especially a Canuck pain in the butt ;). Maybe when I become a Yankee next month, life will change ;)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Gunner C on October 20, 2009, 12:26:41 PM
It appears that I need permission from NHQ to wear the award.  I think I'll wait until I have at least a year of service before I cause more waves.

No one likes a trouble maker, and especially a Canuck pain in the butt ;). Maybe when I become a Yankee next month, life will change ;)
Aw come on!  Anyone who stomps like you while marching  . . . No one's going to get in your way!  ;D
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Dutchboy on October 30, 2009, 08:31:51 PM
This may sound silly, but where can I find info on what uniform ribbons can be worn on. Specifically on the Golf shirts. Someone seems to think they can wear them on the Golf Shirt. Where can I find documentation that says you can or cannot wear the golf shirt with ribbons?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on October 30, 2009, 09:14:19 PM
CAPM 39-1

Wear of ribbons only on specific AF and Corporate Uniforms. NOTHING on those [darn] polos.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SarDragon on October 30, 2009, 09:18:30 PM
CAPM 39-1 has all of your answers. Specifically, Chapter 5 addresses the specific issue.

Quote from: CAPM 39-1
5-1. Wear of Awards and Decorations. Awards and decorations prescribed by CAPR 39-3, Award of CAP Medals, Ribbons, and Certificates, will be worn only by CAP members for whom they have been authorized and only on those uniforms outlined below. Figure 5-1 outlines the proper arrangement and placement on service uniforms. Ribbons and medals will not be worn on the utility uniform, field uniform, CAP blazer (exception one miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform), battle dress uniform, flight suits, and in no case will they be worn on the overcoat, raincoat, all-weather coat, or lightweight blue jacket.

5-2. When Awards and Decorations are Worn. Ribbons are mandatory with the USAF service dress and the semiformal uniforms. They are optional with all other service uniforms and the aviator shirt. No military awards or decorations may be worn on the aviator shirt. NOTE: All ribbons and devices worn by senior members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the bottom tip of the collar of AF-style shirts/blouses worn as outergarments. Miniature medals are mandatory with the mess dress uniform (men and women). One miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform.

Service uniforms:
Quote
a. Service uniforms include the service dress uniform, long-sleeve light blue blouse/shirt, and shortsleeve light blue blouse/shirt.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Dutchboy on October 31, 2009, 12:49:14 AM
CAPM 39-1 has all of your answers. Specifically, Chapter 5 addresses the specific issue.

Quote from: CAPM 39-1
5-1. Wear of Awards and Decorations. Awards and decorations prescribed by CAPR 39-3, Award of CAP Medals, Ribbons, and Certificates, will be worn only by CAP members for whom they have been authorized and only on those uniforms outlined below. Figure 5-1 outlines the proper arrangement and placement on service uniforms. Ribbons and medals will not be worn on the utility uniform, field uniform, CAP blazer (exception one miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform), battle dress uniform, flight suits, and in no case will they be worn on the overcoat, raincoat, all-weather coat, or lightweight blue jacket.

5-2. When Awards and Decorations are Worn. Ribbons are mandatory with the USAF service dress and the semiformal uniforms. They are optional with all other service uniforms and the aviator shirt. No military awards or decorations may be worn on the aviator shirt. NOTE: All ribbons and devices worn by senior members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the bottom tip of the collar of AF-style shirts/blouses worn as outergarments. Miniature medals are mandatory with the mess dress uniform (men and women). One miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform.

Service uniforms:
Quote
a. Service uniforms include the service dress uniform, long-sleeve light blue blouse/shirt, and shortsleeve light blue blouse/shirt.



In 5-1 it lists specifically the items it cannot be worn on, but does not list the polo shirt.  I am trying to properly educate a member and need documentation. I think they read only 5-1 and thought it was ok, since it was not listed there.  Please help me distinguish where it says no if it does not specifically state polo shirt. I need to know what to tell this member.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: JoeTomasone on October 31, 2009, 01:21:48 AM

In 5-1 it lists specifically the items it cannot be worn on, but does not list the polo shirt.

Actually, it says that the uniforms it CAN be worn on are "outlined below":

Quote from: CAPM 39-1
5-1. Wear of Awards and Decorations. Awards and decorations prescribed by CAPR 39-3, Award of CAP Medals, Ribbons, and Certificates, will be worn only by CAP members for whom they have been authorized and only on those uniforms outlined below. Figure 5-1 outlines the proper arrangement and placement on service uniforms. Ribbons and medals will not be worn on the utility uniform, field uniform, CAP blazer (exception one miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform), battle dress uniform, flight suits, and in no case will they be worn on the overcoat, raincoat, all-weather coat, or lightweight blue jacket.

5-2. When Awards and Decorations are Worn. Ribbons are mandatory with the USAF service dress and the semiformal uniforms. They are optional with all other service uniforms and the aviator shirt. No military awards or decorations may be worn on the aviator shirt. NOTE: All ribbons and devices worn by senior members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the bottom tip of the collar of AF-style shirts/blouses worn as outergarments. Miniature medals are mandatory with the mess dress uniform (men and women). One miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform.


So you are authorized to wear ribbons on the:

USAF service dress and the semiformal uniforms,
All other service uniforms,
The aviator shirt.

What are the service uniforms?

Quote
Service uniforms:
a. Service uniforms include the service dress uniform, long-sleeve light blue blouse/shirt, and shortsleeve light blue blouse/shirt.


The other clue is that for each of the above listed uniforms, the section describing them says where to put the ribbons.   There is no mention of ribbons for the non-eligible uniforms such as the BDUs, flight suits, and, yes, the Polo shirt.



I am trying to properly educate a member and need documentation. I think they read only 5-1 and thought it was ok, since it was not listed there.

With uniforms, if it does not expressly permit it, it is not permitted.


Quote from: CAPM 39-1, Section 1-1
COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear.


Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Dutchboy on October 31, 2009, 01:30:24 AM
JoeTamasone, that last item you entered ( Quote from: CAPM 39-1, Section 1-1 )
was the clincher for me . Thanks alot. If they still don't believe me, I should invite them to wear the ribbons on a polo and show up at the wing building during a Commanders call and see what happens then  ?  >:D No, JK on that.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Hawk200 on October 31, 2009, 01:51:24 AM
JoeTamasone, that last item you entered ( Quote from: CAPM 39-1, Section 1-1 )
was the clincher for me . Thanks alot. If they still don't believe me, I should invite them to wear the ribbons on a polo and show up at the wing building during a Commanders call and see what happens then  ?  >:D No, JK on that.

Sometimes getting your tail handed to you is the only way to learn.

I'd be curious to know where this member is going to put them on the shirt anyway.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: MSgt Van on October 31, 2009, 11:07:55 AM
 ::)
Wow. Me thinks there needs to be more reg readin' during level 1 and 2 of our PD programs...
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: EMT-83 on October 31, 2009, 11:14:18 AM
I'd be curious to know where this member is going to put them on the shirt anyway.
Resting on, but not over, the top edge of the pocket.   :)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: AlphaSigOU on October 31, 2009, 11:16:42 AM
::)
Wow. Me thinks there needs to be more reg readin' during level 1 and 2 of our PD programs...

Ain't that the truth... How many /facepalms have I done witnessing egregious uniform violations? Ignorantia lex ineminem excusat. (Ignorance of the law is no excuse.)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Spike on November 01, 2009, 10:50:33 AM
Ignorantia lex ineminem excusat. (Ignorance of the law is no excuse.)

du talar latin, prata me svenska (you talk Latin, me talk Swedish)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: hard8 on April 24, 2010, 06:05:37 AM
What bothers me  is that from time to time National deletes a ribbon in favor of a new one or declares it obsolete.  In the US military, once  you earn a ribbon you keep it forever.  I have at least 7 I can no longer ware that have been deleted or had a new design put  in it's place.  Who makes these decisions?  I'll bet it is not anyone that was  in the real military.  COP holder  in FWG
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: flyboy53 on April 24, 2010, 06:19:38 AM
Who's the guy who wants to wear ribbons on a golf shirt? HWSRN?

Seriously, why would you want to poke holes in a golf shirt for ribbons, anyway?

I thought the golf shirt was a semi-casual type of uniform.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: tdepp on April 24, 2010, 10:48:41 AM
This may sound silly, but where can I find info on what uniform ribbons can be worn on. Specifically on the Golf shirts. Someone seems to think they can wear them on the Golf Shirt. Where can I find documentation that says you can or cannot wear the golf shirt with ribbons?
Dutch:
Seriously? Someone actually wants to wear ribbons on their polo shirt?  Astounding.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Gunner C on April 24, 2010, 02:10:08 PM
::)
Wow. Me thinks there needs to be more reg readin' during level 1 and 2 of our PD programs...

Ain't that the truth... How many /facepalms have I done witnessing egregious uniform violations? Ignorantia lex ineminem excusat. (Ignorance of the law is no excuse.)

I disagree.  The only way to get folks to wear their uniforms correctly is person-to-person training called an inspection.  Inspections are teaching tools.  There's too many out there who are frightened to stand a bunch of folks in line and show them where they're making mistakes. 

Reading regulations?  That's an exercise in folly.  Heck, I've got 35 years experience and I can't decipher what the regulation says on uniforms occasionally.  Positive leadership, not passive ("Here, read this.  There's something wrong with your uniform") leadership is what is needed.  C'mon folks.  Train your people.  What are you afraid of?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on April 24, 2010, 05:28:24 PM
What bothers me  is that from time to time National deletes a ribbon in favor of a new one or declares it obsolete.  In the US military, once  you earn a ribbon you keep it forever.  I have at least 7 I can no longer ware that have been deleted or had a new design put  in it's place.  Who makes these decisions?  I'll bet it is not anyone that was  in the real military.  COP holder  in FWG

Which 7 ribbons have been changed or deleted? And where in the regs does it say you can't wear it?

You can still wear the Falcon Award and it hasn't been awarded for over 20 years.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: lordmonar on April 24, 2010, 05:42:39 PM
He may be refereing to the old cadet awards.  They had all those cute pictures on them back in the 80's early 90's.

I can't think of any ribbon that has been changed or deleted in the last 10 years or so.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: flyboy53 on April 27, 2010, 08:51:06 PM
I just read the guide. It's excellent, but I have several comments that I'm not sure how to to implement them on your guide.

First, I ran into a former cadet with a Earhart Ribbon with one or two silver stars. He claimed the devices were for completing the Cadet Program and for being on a CAC? Anybody know anything about that?

Two other comments:

(1.) Although I don't dispute that Coast Guard Auxiliary ribbons can't be worn on the CAP uniform, some of the ribbons/medals earned by the Coast Guard Auxiliary are federal or are U.S. Department of Transportaton-related. Are those still worn?

(2.) The Mobilization Device on the Armed Forces Reserve Medal is a bronze "M," not gold. Mine is bronze and I think the only entry on my DD Form 214 is for the "M" device..no metal indicated. Gold is for the hourglass device and it represents three decades of Reserve service.

Otherwise, excellent job!
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: ßτε on April 27, 2010, 09:08:04 PM
First, I ran into a former cadet with a Earhart Ribbon with one or two silver stars. He claimed the devices were for (1.) Completing the Cadet Program and for being on a CAC? Anybody know anything about that?
Before the Eaker award, a cadet who completed phase IV wore a silver triangular clasp (not a star) on the Earhart ribbon. If the cadet did not later earn the Spaatz award, the clasp would continue to be worn on the ribbon if the cadet became a senior member. I do not recall anything about a star for CAC.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Ned on April 27, 2010, 10:18:45 PM
As a senior, I wear the silver star on my Spaatz ribbon authorized by CAPR 39-3, para 14(j) to denote completion of Cadet Officer School.

(I don't choose to wear my Falcon Award simply because no one has any idea what it is anymore, and the enamel makes it tough to wear the silver star.  8))

A former cadet could wear the silver star on an Eaker ribbon under similar circumstances.

(Of course, these days I could also wear the Cadet Special Activities Ribbon with a bronze star to denote the same thing.)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PWK-GT on April 28, 2010, 01:44:21 AM
I disagree.  The only way to get folks to wear their uniforms correctly is person-to-person training called an inspection.  Inspections are teaching tools.  There's too many out there who are frightened to stand a bunch of folks in line and show them where they're making mistakes. 

Reading regulations?  That's an exercise in folly.  Heck, I've got 35 years experience and I can't decipher what the regulation says on uniforms occasionally.  Positive leadership, not passive ("Here, read this.  There's something wrong with your uniform") leadership is what is needed.  C'mon folks.  Train your people.  What are you afraid of?

+1 :clap:
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Slim on April 29, 2010, 12:25:43 AM
(1.) Although I don't dispute that Coast Guard Auxiliary ribbons can't be worn on the CAP uniform, some of the ribbons/medals earned by the Coast Guard Auxiliary are federal or are U.S. Department of Transportaton-related. Are those still worn?

This is one of those gray areas where regs seem to contradict themselves.  CAPM 39-1 states:

Quote from: CAPM 39-1, Para 5-4
5-4. Military Service Awards. Military service ribbons may be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform provided they were awarded in writing by competent military authority. Awards of the Air Force, Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard will be worn in the order prescribed by the awarding service, subject to the following: In all cases of relative priority, Air Force awards will take precedence.
See Table 5-3. Awards for wars, campaigns, expeditions etc., will be worn in chronological sequence.

While CAPR 39-3 says:

Quote from: CAPR 39-3, Sec A, para 3b"
b. Decorations, ribbons, and badges authorized for wear on the U.S. Air Force uniform may be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform when earned through qualification and awarded by competent authority to a member for service performed in any branch of the Armed Forces of the United States or its allies. (Foreign decorations, ribbons, badges, etc., awarded in writing to a member not in the Armed Forces of the United States may also be worn if approved by National Headquarters.) Aeronautical badges, emblems, insignia, ribbons, etc., given by a foreign government, or agency, as souvenirs or emblems of friendship do not qualify as earned awards and will not be worn on the CAP uniform. All cases where doubt exists as to the propriety of a badge, medal or other device being worn will be referred to National Headquarters for decision.

So, while the uniform reg says they can be worn, the 39-3 specifies that the award has to be earned for service performed while a member of any branch of the military.  Since Coast Guard Auxiliarists are also civilians, there is a shadow of doubt as to whether Coast Guard awards earned by them can be worn on the uniform.

As someone who earned two Coast Guard Unit Commendations and the Coast Guard Special Operations ribbon while in the CGAux, the hassle of wearing them on a CAP uniform (when I could) just wasn't worth it to me.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on May 20, 2010, 12:11:14 AM
to my understanding of the 39-1 RM badgessuch as Combat Infantry Badge and Air Assault Pathfinder and such are auth along with the RM Ribbons on USAF type uniform only
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on May 20, 2010, 12:28:59 AM
to my understanding of the 39-1 RM badgessuch as Combat Infantry Badge and Air Assault Pathfinder and such are auth along with the RM Ribbons on USAF type uniform only

You are correct, military badges can only be worn on the "military" uniforms.
No military badges allowed on any of the "corperate" uniforms.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on May 20, 2010, 12:38:30 AM
I would love to see what they actually mean by skill badges from the army such as i have a combat infantry badge an air assault badge and a pathfinder badge i want to see a picture of what they mean by how they are worn on the USAF style service uniform and BDUs
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: wacapgh on May 20, 2010, 03:33:16 PM
Well, here's the rub. 39-1 hasn't been updated to match current USAF policy.

When it was last revised in 2005, 39-1 was based on the 2004 USAF manuals (called Air Force Instructions or AFI),  that were current.

In 2006, the USAF revised the dress and appearance AFI.  Part of the changes was restricting the wear of "sister service" badges - CIB, Air Assault, tabs, rockers, combat patches, etc. - to only when permanently assigned to an Army, USMC, Navy, USCG, etc. unit (TDY does not count). Once you PCS back to a USAF unit, they all come off.

Both 39-1 and 39-3 both state that only the military badges, decorations, and ribbons authorized for wear on the USAF uniform are authorized on the USAF-Style uniforms. The list of badges in the 39-1 was accurate when it was created in 2005, bu no longer matches current USAF policy as defined in the 2006 AFI.

So, absent clarification from NHQ we are in a situation where one part of our regulations says Yes you can wear it, but part of the same regulation and another regulation says that we follow USAF policy so No you can't.  :-\
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on May 20, 2010, 04:02:26 PM
Well im personally very proud of my CIB Air Assault and Pathfinder badges so I will continue to wear then the best I can according to the 39-1 until it is changed... God willing never. Now I know I can only wear two of them at a time so I will stick with the CIB and AASLT badges. they look like they fit the best on the uniforms.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Custer on June 04, 2010, 06:37:20 PM
I'd be curious to know where this member is going to put them on the shirt anyway.
Resting on, but not over, the top edge of the pocket.   :)
Which is the same place they go on that bright red shirt with the Cessna on it
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jimmydeanno on June 04, 2010, 06:45:52 PM
I'd be curious to know where this member is going to put them on the shirt anyway.
Resting on, but not over, the top edge of the pocket.   :)
Which is the same place they go on that bright red shirt with the Cessna on it

I think you forgot the [sarcasm] tags...


I hope
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Mission/Tow Pilot on June 04, 2010, 06:54:42 PM
That's where I put them on my red Cessna 182RG Shirt...
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: RVT on June 20, 2010, 05:27:33 PM
Has anybody seen anything in CAP channels to figure out what ribbons NOT to wear in order to keep the top of my wings below the notch of the collar?  If I wear everything authorized by the AF and CAP, it comes to a total of 46 ribbons.  Aside from looking like a Peruvian Admiral, the top of my wings end up under my epaulet.

This would be solved through the use of miniature ribbons - however I do not know of anyone who makes CAP ribbons of that type.  39-3 doesn't even address the existence of miniature ribbons so it may be a moot point.

There is an alternative solution.  Regarding full size ribbons, there is a phrase in 39-1 that reads "wear all or some" on Page 16 (with that really young looking full colonel on it) that does not go on to specify any criteria - so you can apparently leave off whatever you think isn't important.  An example would be a CAP Major wearing a membership ribbon.  Sort of redundant, as it is a prerequisite for having any rank at all.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on June 20, 2010, 05:41:21 PM
There's also the option of wearing only CAP ribbons, or concentrating the space on those and limiting the military ones, since in this context those are the ones most important to the people reading your resume.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on June 20, 2010, 06:15:06 PM
Actually, in CAPR 50-17, the Senior Member Professional Development reg, it does state that if you do need to reduce the number of ribbons worn, you can just wear your highest Senior Member Training Level ribbon, i.e. if you have completed Level IV, you only need to wear your Garber Ribbon and you can ditch the ribbons for levels I, II and III.

You can also wear just some of your military ribbons. I just wear the four individual awards that have been awarded.
(Meritorious Service Medal, Aerial Achievement Medal, AF Commendation Medal and AF Achievement Medal)
Everything else I've been awarded was pretty much the same BTDT stuff everybody else gets so I felt no burning need to wear them on my CAP uniform.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Old Timer on June 20, 2010, 06:26:52 PM
You guys ever seen pictures of General Carl Spaatz? 

You remember the famed wartime leader of the AAF and later a National Commander in CAP.  Think there is an award named after the man somewhere in CAP?

Five ribbons and his wings. That's all.

Don't know why, but I would tend to think that the commanding officer of the "Question Mark" earned a few more than just five ribbons in his storied career.

Yet, all you see on his uniform are five ribbons and his wings on his "Class A's" (remember, it was still the U.S. Army at the time)   

Maybe you can wear your Wilson, Spaatz, Crossfield, command service, disaster service and red service (of course if you earned them) and one badge. 

Says it all, and a bit more Spaatz-like.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on June 20, 2010, 11:01:03 PM
You guys ever seen pictures of General Carl Spaatz? 

You remember the famed wartime leader of the AAF and later a National Commander in CAP.  Think there is an award named after the man somewhere in CAP?

Five ribbons and his wings. That's all.

Don't know why, but I would tend to think that the commanding officer of the "Question Mark" earned a few more than just five ribbons in his storied career.

Yet, all you see on his uniform are five ribbons and his wings on his "Class A's" (remember, it was still the U.S. Army at the time)   

Maybe you can wear your Wilson, Spaatz, Crossfield, command service, disaster service and red service (of course if you earned them) and one badge. 

Says it all, and a bit more Spaatz-like.

(http://www.spaatz.org/images/spaatzportrait-sm.jpg)

(http://www.majesticdocuments.com/images/truman_spaatz45_lg.jpg)

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DakRadz on June 22, 2010, 03:43:26 PM
Top picture is broken- besides, if you're meeting the POTUS, you're probably going to be a bit dressier. So.. YMMV.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on June 22, 2010, 05:03:41 PM
Top pic displays fine for me, hit refresh, its off the Spaatz org site. - lots more where those came from all over.

Bottom line, the assertion he never wore more than five is false, in fact, I could only find one photo that showed him with five. Hint - the more stars he got, the more ribbons he wore, even on his Ike jacket.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DakRadz on June 23, 2010, 01:05:43 AM
Top pic displays fine for me, hit refresh, its off the Spaatz org site. - lots more where those came from all over.

Bottom line, the assertion he never wore more than five is false, in fact, I could only find one photo that showed him with five. Hint - the more stars he got, the more ribbons he wore, even on his Ike jacket.

Ah, I see now- the more they paid his aide, the more ribbons he was willing to position for his general!
Or, he got more vain as he earned more rank- heck, happens to me all the time.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: GTCommando on September 12, 2010, 12:52:12 PM
I don't have time to read through the whole thread, but concerning the original pdf posted by AlphaSigOU, Bravo! It will make things easier for a semi-old-timer like me, let alone a newbie to CAP. Keep up the good work.  :clap:
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: HGjunkie on September 12, 2010, 12:59:09 PM

(http://www.spaatz.org/images/spaatzportrait-sm.jpg)

(http://www.majesticdocuments.com/images/truman_spaatz45_lg.jpg)


Ah, the days when you stitched your ribbons to the service coat. Wonder if that would ever come back up...  >:D
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: mdickinson on September 12, 2010, 07:52:54 PM
Updated guide to include the new Achievement Award. Mods/admins: please replace the old one at the top of this thread for this revised edition.

The one at the top of the thread has NOT been replaced - it is still the old one from 1997 which erroneously refers to a clasp for every 10 non-distress finds. This was corrected to 20 in the 1998 version.  I would hope it would be possible to have the latest version at the top of the thread, per AlphaSigOU's request. 

Is the 10 Aug 08 version the latest one?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on September 12, 2010, 08:53:49 PM
Updated guide to include the new Achievement Award. Mods/admins: please replace the old one at the top of this thread for this revised edition.

The one at the top of the thread has NOT been replaced - it is still the old one from 1997 which erroneously refers to a clasp for every 10 non-distress finds. This was corrected to 20 in the 1998 version.  I would hope it would be possible to have the latest version at the top of the thread, per AlphaSigOU's request. 

Is the 10 Aug 08 version the latest one?

The SAR ribbon on the one mentioned is incorrect as well - only need 1 aircrew sortie in the 10 to add the prop to the ribbon.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: BradM on November 17, 2010, 02:41:21 PM
How many of you wear your ribbons when you just wear your short sleeve or long sleeve AF blue shirt?  I am getting advice in my squadron that in the "Air Force culture" officers don't wear their ribbons on their shirts, just their aviation and specialty badges. Yet, when I just went to the Wing Conference in Santa Maria California 80% of officers wearing the AF uniform with just the shirt wore their ribbons. So I am wondering what most members do in CAP? Thank you :)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: davidsinn on November 17, 2010, 03:10:08 PM
How many of you wear your ribbons when you just wear your short sleeve or long sleeve AF blue shirt?  I am getting advice in my squadron that in the "Air Force culture" officers don't wear their ribbons on their shirts, just their aviation and specialty badges. Yet, when I just went to the Wing Conference in Santa Maria California 80% of officers wearing the AF uniform with just the shirt wore their ribbons. So I am wondering what most members do in CAP? Thank you :)

I wear mine on the shirt because I hate the jacket and only wear it when necessary.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Mission/Tow Pilot on November 17, 2010, 03:28:21 PM
You must have seen me wearing my ribbons with my short sleeve shirt at the CAWG Conference :)

Yes, CAP members can wear their ribbons on the AF Style shirt, Good knowledgebase article: http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1231 (http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1231)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: mdickinson on November 17, 2010, 04:21:00 PM
How many of you wear your ribbons when you just wear your short sleeve or long sleeve AF blue shirt?  I am getting advice in my squadron that in the "Air Force culture" officers don't wear their ribbons on their shirts, just their aviation and specialty badges. Yet, when I just went to the Wing Conference in Santa Maria California 80% of officers wearing the AF uniform with just the shirt wore their ribbons. So I am wondering what most members do in CAP? Thank you :)

I have observed that there are three types of CAP members:
- Those who wear lots ribbons on their shirt (this is pretty much unheard of among senior members in my region)
- Those who wear no ribbons on their shirt
- Those who wear a single row of three ribbons on their shirt

No matter what anyone tells you, any of these options is 100% OK, according to the CAP uniform manual.

I have noticed that the "single row of three ribbons" approach seems to be regional in nature. That is, people in some areas of the country do it, and people in other areas don't. Not sure why.   Maybe some influential person said "let's all do it this way" and everyone in the sqdn/group/wing got on board. New members were told to do it that way. Nothing wrong with that...

Side note: in the Coast Guard, everyone wears all their ribbons on their shirt, but in the Air Force, no one does. That's just the custom.

Personally I like the single-row-of-three-ribbons approach (also the only-one-specialty-track-badge approach). That way everyone in the unit is wearing a similar number of items on their shirt, regardless of how long they've been in. It lets people pick their proudest three ribbons (in my case the meritorious service, the A. Scott Crossfield award, and the cadet orientation pilot ribbon with lots of clasps.  :-)  However in my area, the single-row option is out of style at present.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jeders on November 17, 2010, 04:29:33 PM
How many of you wear your ribbons when you just wear your short sleeve or long sleeve AF blue shirt?  I am getting advice in my squadron that in the "Air Force culture" officers don't wear their ribbons on their shirts, just their aviation and specialty badges. Yet, when I just went to the Wing Conference in Santa Maria California 80% of officers wearing the AF uniform with just the shirt wore their ribbons. So I am wondering what most members do in CAP? Thank you :)

From my understanding, which is limited at best, Air Force officers don't tend to wear ribbons when they just wear the shirt, instead they just wear their specialty badges. They leave all of the ribbons on the service coat. That being said there are certainly some who do wear their ribbons on their shirt.

I choose to only wear mini specialty badges on my shirt and my CP badge, then on my service coat I have full size badges and all the ribbons I'm entitled to wear. I used to wear all my ribbons on my shirt, but over the years I've gotten tired of trying to keep them clean and in good order. Hence the reason I only wear my ribbons on my service coat. I would suspect that the reasoning is more or less the same for why most AF officers don't seem to wear ribbons on their shirts.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: CAP Producer on November 17, 2010, 04:35:27 PM
How many of you wear your ribbons when you just wear your short sleeve or long sleeve AF blue shirt?  I am getting advice in my squadron that in the "Air Force culture" officers don't wear their ribbons on their shirts, just their aviation and specialty badges. Yet, when I just went to the Wing Conference in Santa Maria California 80% of officers wearing the AF uniform with just the shirt wore their ribbons. So I am wondering what most members do in CAP? Thank you :)

I have observed that there are three types of CAP members:
- Those who wear lots ribbons on their shirt (this is pretty much unheard of among senior members in my region)
- Those who wear no ribbons on their shirt
- Those who wear a single row of three ribbons on their shirt

No matter what anyone tells you, any of these options is 100% OK, according to the CAP uniform manual.

I have noticed that the "single row of three ribbons" approach seems to be regional in nature. That is, people in some areas of the country do it, and people in other areas don't. Not sure why.   Maybe some influential person said "let's all do it this way" and everyone in the sqdn/group/wing got on board. New members were told to do it that way. Nothing wrong with that...

Side note: in the Coast Guard, everyone wears all their ribbons on their shirt, but in the Air Force, no one does. That's just the custom.

Personally I like the single-row-of-three-ribbons approach (also the only-one-specialty-track-badge approach). That way everyone in the unit is wearing a similar number of items on their shirt, regardless of how long they've been in. It lets people pick their proudest three ribbons (in my case the meritorious service, the A. Scott Crossfield award, and the cadet orientation pilot ribbon with lots of clasps.  :-)  However in my area, the single-row option is out of style at present.

Malcom is right. Ribbon wear on the shirt is a matter of choice.

My choice is generally not to wear ribbons or badges on the shirt. I do it that way out of convenience and to keep a clean and unassuming look. I want people to talk to me at events and sometimes when I wear all of my stuff newer members may be less hesitant to say hi and talk.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: mdickinson on November 17, 2010, 04:48:02 PM
My choice is generally not to wear ribbons or badges on the shirt. I do it that way out of convenience and to keep a clean and unassuming look.

Here's a question I wondered about years ago - and don't recall ever finding an answer to:

Does the uniform manual allow us to choose NOT to wear wings or ground team badge that we have earned?  I know it says that no more than two are worn above the left pocket, but I don't recall ever reading "all, some, or none" when it comes to wings / GT badge / IC badge.

Does it say somewhere that it's OK not to wear them... and if not, must we wear our wings any time we wear the blue uniform or the aviator shirt?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: CAP Producer on November 17, 2010, 05:02:56 PM
My choice is generally not to wear ribbons or badges on the shirt. I do it that way out of convenience and to keep a clean and unassuming look.

Here's a question I wondered about years ago - and don't recall ever finding an answer to:

Does the uniform manual allow us to choose NOT to wear wings or ground team badge that we have earned?  I know it says that no more than two are worn above the left pocket, but I don't recall ever reading "all, some, or none" when it comes to wings / GT badge / IC badge. -

Does it say somewhere that it's OK not to wear them... and if not, must we wear our wings any time we wear the blue uniform or the aviator shirt?

I can;t find anything that requires the wear of aeronautical badges or any other badge in 39-1.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Al Sayre on November 17, 2010, 05:05:37 PM
If you desire, you could wear just a name tag and your grade sleeves (epaulettes).  The badges and ribbons serve the purpose of instantly telling those who know what they are what you are and what you do.  Pilot, GT guy, Chaplain, Dr. etc.  If you wore nothing you would probably get a lot of weird looks and whispered questions - "Who is that dude and why is he here?"  The higher in grade, the stranger the looks.  A 2d Lt wouldn't garner much interest, a Lt Col would garner a lot.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PA Guy on November 17, 2010, 05:22:43 PM
I very seldom wear ribbons on the shirt and when I do it is a short stack (5).  I usually wear either my obs wings or my GTL badge but seldom both.   Less is best.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Mission/Tow Pilot on November 17, 2010, 05:25:08 PM
To each their own according to the regulations.

So say we all...
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: BradM on November 17, 2010, 06:02:50 PM
I very seldom wear ribbons on the shirt and when I do it is a short stack (5).  I usually wear either my obs wings or my GTL badge but seldom both.   Less is best.

Thank you everyone for your answers and perspective. I'm 3 months a member and I have the Membership ribbon at present. :) The next 3 I want to earn are the Yeager Award ribbon, the Leadership ribbon when I get my Technician rating in one of my specialties (PD, and Finance), and the Community Service ribbon.  I'm thinking when I get more than 6 I will short stack the top 6 on the shirt and wear all on the service coat. I like the look of ribbons on the shirt, but too many might be uncomfortable to wear? I also want to become a Mission Observer and earn the Basic Ground Team badge as well. (Incase on a search I'm not selected to be in the air crew).
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: MIKE on November 17, 2010, 06:21:26 PM
WIWAC I wore all my bling on my shirts... At the time I didn't know any better or realize how goofy I looked. WIWAS I wore only my regular sized GT badge as is the custom.

Now I have come full circle, as in the CGAUX ribbons are required on Tropical Blue.  I have two racks set up.  One with all 4, and one with my top 3 for when I want to be low key, or I just got a new award.  My other option would be any 9, but I don't have that many yet.  I think there will come a point where I go to my top 3 rig exclusively since I don't have the none option.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Ned on November 17, 2010, 06:27:23 PM
I'm in the "no ribbons on the shirt" camp, generally.

Exception:  when I go to conferences, I sometimes just wear one or two ribbons, picking them carefully to make various points for folks who may not know me well.

At the CAWG conference last weekend, I was rockin' my "CP Pride" selection: just my highest cadet award with silver star and encampment ribbon with three silver clasps.

But as others have said, the regs allow you to wear some, all, or none on your shirt.

I think "none" looks most professional when in normal working situations, like squadron meetings.

But I may be in the minority on that.

Ned Lee
CP Enthusiast

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jimmydeanno on November 17, 2010, 06:28:30 PM
I have two racks set up...
One with all 4
and one with my top 3

You have a rack with 4 and one with 3 and the difference of 1 ribbon is "low key" or not?   :o
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Mission/Tow Pilot on November 17, 2010, 06:31:41 PM
Ned Lee
CP Enthusiast

Thanks for being a great MC Ned!
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: BradM on November 17, 2010, 06:37:36 PM
Ned Lee
CP Enthusiast

Thanks for being a great MC Ned!

Yes you were fantastic at the Awards Banquet! I'm very happy I decided to go to that! :)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: BradM on November 17, 2010, 06:41:59 PM
I'm in the "no ribbons on the shirt" camp, generally.

Exception:  when I go to conferences, I sometimes just wear one or two ribbons, picking them carefully to make various points for folks who may not know me well.

At the CAWG conference last weekend, I was rockin' my "CP Pride" selection: just my highest cadet award with silver star and encampment ribbon with three silver clasps.

But as others have said, the regs allow you to wear some, all, or none on your shirt.

I think "none" looks most professional when in normal working situations, like squadron meetings.

But I may be in the minority on that.

Ned Lee
CP Enthusiast

I think my Squadron Commander is saying the same to me so on Commander's Call night I could wear the ribbons. Then on the other 3 meetings in the month do the "none" look. Then when I go to a Conference I could wear all or up to 6 if I want to short stack. It will be a few years before I have more than 6 :)

Does anyone ever wear the officer's service cap with their short sleeve shirt? Or is that more a Navy style? Like in the t.v. show JAG I see it all the time that way.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xKYe1R1D2nI/SC7_pQLB6CI/AAAAAAAABak/-QPnFGQ8If4/s200/harm8.jpg)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: MIKE on November 17, 2010, 06:42:26 PM
I have two racks set up...
One with all 4
and one with my top 3

You have a rack with 4 and one with 3 and the difference of 1 ribbon is "low key" or not?   :o

Like I said... top 3 is the Coast Guard none.  All the admirals are doing it.  ;D

Does anyone ever wear the officer's service cap with their short sleeve shirt? Or is that more a Navy style? Like in the t.v. show JAG I see it all the time that way.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xKYe1R1D2nI/SC7_pQLB6CI/AAAAAAAABak/-QPnFGQ8If4/s200/harm8.jpg)

This is another one of those, you can but you really shouldn't things.  Goes along with the no ribbons on the shirt custom.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: tsrup on November 17, 2010, 07:14:51 PM
The way I see it, its called a "service cap" and it goes with the "service coat".

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: MIKE on November 17, 2010, 07:26:41 PM
Probably better off with the flight cap even then... It's simply not the custom.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: tsrup on November 17, 2010, 07:29:09 PM
Probably better off with the flight cap even then... It's simply not the custom.

I agree, the flight cap is much more comfortable and most times I wear just that, but as with most things sometimes it just depends on the situation.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: BradM on November 17, 2010, 07:32:07 PM
Probably better off with the flight cap even then... It's simply not the custom.

I agree, the flight cap is much more comfortable and most times I wear just that, but as with most things sometimes it just depends on the situation.

:) I thought the proper location of the flight cap was on your belt at your side? j/k

So it looks like the service cap with the short sleeve shirt is a Navy tradition?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: tsrup on November 17, 2010, 07:39:31 PM
Probably better off with the flight cap even then... It's simply not the custom.

I agree, the flight cap is much more comfortable and most times I wear just that, but as with most things sometimes it just depends on the situation.

:) I thought the proper location of the flight cap was on your belt at your side? j/k

So it looks like the service cap with the short sleeve shirt is a Navy tradition?

partially because some uniforms only have the combo cover prescribed, so it's more widely used.  Not to mention short sleeve khaki's and summer whites are a complete uniform without a "service coat".
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Chappie on November 24, 2010, 03:04:22 PM
How many of you wear your ribbons when you just wear your short sleeve or long sleeve AF blue shirt?  I am getting advice in my squadron that in the "Air Force culture" officers don't wear their ribbons on their shirts, just their aviation and specialty badges. Yet, when I just went to the Wing Conference in Santa Maria California 80% of officers wearing the AF uniform with just the shirt wore their ribbons. So I am wondering what most members do in CAP? Thank you :)

I am one that keeps with the AF culture (with the exception of graduation at encampment) where I wear no ribbons on the shirt.   I hate to poke holes in a shirt -- besides our CCRSC is held on USAF bases and I often interact with USAF Chaplains....so I only wear ribbons on the service coat.   But for encampment graduation -- I go with CAP culture and wear the ribbons (have a shirt dsignated for that).
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: capsafety on November 25, 2010, 12:27:05 PM
I dont wear ribbons unless it is on the service jacket.
I only wear the service jacket at the NB or local Conference.
I wear all ribbons and only 1 specialty badge.
I wear my Observer Wings on the short sleeves and service jacket.
I do not mix my ad with CAP anymore at all on either combination.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Major Carrales on November 25, 2010, 12:34:42 PM
I wear the service cap with short sleeve shirt and ribbons in the summer (because that is how the cadets will wear them), service cap with long sleeved shirt with light weight blue jacket in the winter.  The service coat for representing CAP to other organizations, when meeting with government officials and for our various presentations.  I usually don't wear ribbons on long sleeves unless some degree of formality calls for it.

I wear my fight cap with my flight suit, when call to wear one, a patrol CAP with bdus, unless we have squadron baseball caps.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on November 25, 2010, 08:03:04 PM
Shirt, strictly badges and flight cap.
Service Jacket, badges and ribbons and service cap.

That being said, I don't see why some think it's bad to mix your AD badges with CAP badges.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Major Carrales on November 25, 2010, 08:15:34 PM
That being said, I don't see why some think it's bad to mix your AD badges with CAP badges.

I see no problem with that. 
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SarDragon on November 26, 2010, 02:30:01 AM
Given the limited opportunities to wear my ribbons, I wear them when I have the chance, i.e. when the aviator shirt is appropriate, and the polo shirt isn't.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: arajca on November 26, 2010, 02:01:42 PM
That being said, I don't see why some think it's bad to mix your AD badges with CAP badges.
Because far too many members ignore the four badge and location rules when mixing military and CAP badges.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: capsafety on November 26, 2010, 03:20:54 PM
That being said, I don't see why some think it's bad to mix your AD badges with CAP badges.

I don't think it is a bad idea. I used to wear them all when I first joined. My chain of command prefers for me to wear the CAP stuff only. Especially the ribbons.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on November 26, 2010, 05:28:17 PM
In regards to the placement and number ob badges on the uniform, I only wear two on the blues according to reg. I wear three on my BDU, upon gaining my fourth, I do not know where it should be placed. I know many USAF and Army wear their fourth on their pocket flap, but where should you on the USAF style BDU for CAP? If all four are worn above the CAP tape then you wouldnt be able to see the fourth at all because it would be completely obstructed by the collar.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on November 26, 2010, 08:33:13 PM
In regards to the placement and number ob badges on the uniform, I only wear two on the blues according to reg. I wear three on my BDU, upon gaining my fourth, I do not know where it should be placed. I know many USAF and Army wear their fourth on their pocket flap, but where should you on the USAF style BDU for CAP? If all four are worn above the CAP tape then you wouldnt be able to see the fourth at all because it would be completely obstructed by the collar.

Okay, I'm calling BS on this one. Pics or it didn't happen.

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on November 26, 2010, 09:14:26 PM
[img width= height= alt=]http://captalk.net/MGalleryItem.php?id=311[/img]
[img width= height= alt=]http://captalk.net/MGalleryItem.php?id=310[/img]

I couldn't find any with four but they use the same format for three. Nice try calling BS... When you have been around the military as long as I have, not much slips past when it comes to uniforms.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: lordmonar on November 26, 2010, 09:48:08 PM
[img width= height= alt=]http://captalk.net/MGalleryItem.php?id=311[/img]
[img width= height= alt=]http://captalk.net/MGalleryItem.php?id=310[/img]

I couldn't find any with four but they use the same format for three. Nice try calling BS... When you have been around the military as long as I have, not much slips past when it comes to uniforms.

Well I got to call BS on your pic.

from 36-2903
Quote
2. Air Force members are highly encouraged to wear their current occupational badge. Aeronautical
and chaplain badges are mandatory, others are optional. Center subdued embroidered badge
(aeronautical, occupational, or miscellaneous) 1/2 inch above US AIR FORCE tape. Center additional
badge 1/2 inch above the first badge. A third badge (duty or miscellaneous) may be worn
on lower portion of left pocket between left and right edges and bottom of flap and bottom of
pocket, this includes Missile and Excellence-In-Competition badges.[/qouote]
The badge on the pocket flap is not authorised.

Nor is the Black on green jump wings.

Just goes to show you that USAF personnel can get it wrong at well.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on November 26, 2010, 09:54:53 PM
Well I got to call BS on your pic.

from 36-2903
Quote
2. Air Force members are highly encouraged to wear their current occupational badge. Aeronautical
and chaplain badges are mandatory, others are optional. Center subdued embroidered badge
(aeronautical, occupational, or miscellaneous) 1/2 inch above US AIR FORCE tape. Center additional
badge 1/2 inch above the first badge. A third badge (duty or miscellaneous) may be worn
on lower portion of left pocket between left and right edges and bottom of flap and bottom of
pocket, this includes Missile and Excellence-In-Competition badges.[/qouote]
The badge on the pocket flap is not authorised.

Nor is the Black on green jump wings.

Just goes to show you that USAF personnel can get it wrong at well.

Ok, so how does that make the pic of the USAF uniform BS?
may be worn
on lower portion of left pocket between left and right edges and bottom of flap and bottom of
pocket, this includes Missile and Excellence-In-Competition badges

So it says that one CAN be worn on the pocket. It doesn't say what badges are ONLY authorized, is just gives a couple of inclusions as to what to put on the pocket.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on November 26, 2010, 10:27:45 PM
Well I got to call BS on your pic.

from 36-2903
Quote
2. Air Force members are highly encouraged to wear their current occupational badge. Aeronautical
and chaplain badges are mandatory, others are optional. Center subdued embroidered badge
(aeronautical, occupational, or miscellaneous) 1/2 inch above US AIR FORCE tape. Center additional
badge 1/2 inch above the first badge. A third badge (duty or miscellaneous) may be worn
on lower portion of left pocket between left and right edges and bottom of flap and bottom of
pocket, this includes Missile and Excellence-In-Competition badges.
The badge on the pocket flap is not authorised.

Nor is the Black on green jump wings.

Just goes to show you that USAF personnel can get it wrong at well.

Ok, so how does that make the pic of the USAF uniform BS?
may be worn
on lower portion of left pocket between left and right edges and bottom of flap and bottom of
pocket, this includes Missile and Excellence-In-Competition badges

So it says that one CAN be worn on the pocket. It doesn't say what badges are ONLY authorized, is just gives a couple of inclusions as to what to put on the pocket.

The only badges that can be worn on the pocket itself are the Security Forces Badge, Firefighter Badge and the Missile Badges.

And the reg is pretty clear, nothing on the flap, period.

The cop that owns that shirt is going to have to make a decision, which badge to lose?
Amazingly enough, the speciality qualification badge (the one on the pocket flap) is not a required wear item, it's just encouraged.

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on November 26, 2010, 11:03:19 PM
Well, my question still stands, (i understand what you are saying about the pocket badge on USAF uniform) where do you put the fourth badge on the USAF style BDU?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on November 27, 2010, 01:30:55 AM
Well, my question still stands, (i understand what you are saying about the pocket badge on USAF uniform) where do you put the fourth badge on the USAF style BDU?

Well, unless you're a current/former Commander, you don't wear a fourth badge, at least not on a USAF BDU that is worn IAW AFI 36-2903.

And I would be very interested to see a cite from CAPM 39-1 that authorizes it too.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on November 27, 2010, 01:57:31 AM
CAPM- 39-1
6-2. Policy. Only those CAP badges and devices described in this chapter will be worn on the CAP
uniform. If at any time, more than one badge or device is authorized for wear in the same position on
the uniform, the member will select one, to the exclusion of others, for wear in that position. Special
badges or devices designed for specific purposes will be worn only for the duration of the special duty
and will not be worn as a part of the regular uniform. A maximum of four badges/devices may be worn
on the AF-style uniforms.


Emphasis, not mine.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: ßτε on November 27, 2010, 09:25:03 AM
According to CAPM 39-1 Table 6-4, CAP does it exactly as the USAF does.
Quote
19    US Military Badges   embroidered (regular      on the BDU as prescribed      Only those
       (see Table 6-5)       or subdued)                 by the US Air Force.             badges authorized
                                                                                                            for wear on the
                                                                                                            USAF uniform
                                                                                                            are authorized on
                                                                                                            the CAP uniform
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on November 27, 2010, 10:29:22 AM
According to CAPM 39-1 Table 6-4, CAP does it exactly as the USAF does.
Quote
19    US Military Badges   embroidered (regular      on the BDU as prescribed      Only those
       (see Table 6-5)       or subdued)                 by the US Air Force.             badges authorized
                                                                                                            for wear on the
                                                                                                            USAF uniform
                                                                                                            are authorized on
                                                                                                            the CAP uniform

According to CAPM 39-1 6-2 and 6-4, You may wear four badges on your uniform so long as all military badges worn are authorized on the USAF uniform. It says nothing about how they are placed other than you may not place more than one badge in the same position. If the uniform manual is to be used, please use the whole thing, not just pieces and parts.

If you read the notes underneath the illustrations, the notes under the picture of the blues state that you may ONLY wear two badges above your ribbons, badges (other than specialty and command) may not be worn anywhere else on the blues.

The BDU illustration does not state where the badges are to be worn, nor how many. To find how many badges may be worn on the BDU you have to search through the manual. Going down to section 6-2 and to table 6-4 you are told that (by using both together [how the manual is to be used] as a whole) you can wear four badges so long as military badges are authorized on the USAF uniform. It does not however state where they are to be placed.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: MIKE on November 27, 2010, 10:40:51 AM
You're just grabbing at straws here.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on November 27, 2010, 10:47:06 AM
You're just grabbing at straws here.
Then how do you explain 6-2 and it's statement of four badges? Do you think it should just be ignored? Just use the parts of the manual that you like? That is whats called a double standard, "Use the manual, but do as I say."
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: ßτε on November 27, 2010, 10:49:57 AM
It does state where they are to be placed. They are to be placed exactly where it is authorized on the USAF BDU uniform.

Sorry, I didn't include the headings:


Quote
It will be worn                     and the
                                             following rules
                                             will be observed


on the BDU as prescribed      Only those
by the US Air Force.             badges authorized
                                        for wear on the
                                        USAF uniform
                                        are authorized on
                                        the CAP uniform
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on November 27, 2010, 10:58:39 AM
19 US Military Badges            embroidered (regular             on the BDU as prescribed                                 Only those
(see Table 6-5)                      or subdued)                            by the US Air Force.                                          badges authorized
                                                                                                                                                                      for wear on the
                                                                                                                                                                      USAF uniform
                                                                                                                                                                      are authorized on
                                                                                                                                                                      the CAP uniform

There is the whole thing, that is about US Military Badges. Not CAP Badges

Some one tell me where 39-1 says only two badges are authorized on the BDU, or tell me where it says how many are auth.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: HGjunkie on November 27, 2010, 01:11:33 PM
Sorry for the long post, but:

Quote
6-2. Policy. Only those CAP badges and devices described in this chapter will be worn on the CAP
uniform. If at any time, more than one badge or device is authorized for wear in the same position on
the uniform, the member will select one, to the exclusion of others, for wear in that position. Special
badges or devices designed for specific purposes will be worn only for the duration of the special duty
and will not be worn as a part of the regular uniform. A maximum of four badges/devices may be worn
on the AF-style uniforms
.

Quote
Table 6-5. US Military Badges Authorized on CAP Service Uniforms and BDUs
1 US Military Aeronautical Badges
2 Air Force Occupational Badges
3 Combat Infantry or Army Medical Badge
4 US Army Air Assault Badge and Path Finder Badge
5 Parachute Riggers Badge
6 Scuba Badge
7 Distinguished International Shooter Badge
8 Air Force Distinguished Rifleman and Pistol Shot Badge
9 Silver Excellence-in-Competition Rifle and Pistol Badge with Wreath
10 Bronze Excellence-in-Competition Rifle and Pistol Badge With or Without Wreath
11 Office of the Secretary of Defense Badge
12 Joint Chief of Staff Identification Badge
13 Presidential Service Badge or Vice-Presidential Service Badge
14 Excellence-in-Competition Badge

[
Quote
Table 6-4. Wear of Badges, Patches, and Devices on Flight Suits, BDUs, Utility Uniforms and Field
Uniforms.
ITEM If an individual
wears the
then it will be
regular size
and it will be worn and the
following rules
will be observed
1 “Civil Air Patrol’
Tape (ultramarine
blue)
embroidered in white
cotton thread
centered immediately above
the left breast pocket on the
BDU shirt, field uniform,
BDU or dark blue field
jacket.
Tape will be
width of pocket
with raw edges
turned under.
2 Cloth Name Tape
(ultramarine blue)
embroidered in white
cotton thread
centered immediately
above the right breast
pocket of the BDU or field
uniform shirt and BDU or
dark blue field jacket.
Tape will be
width of pocket
with raw edges
turned under.
3 CAP Command
Patch
embroidered utility uniform and CAP
flight suit: on the right
breast. USAF flight suit:
centered in seamless area
above the right breast
pocket. Flight jacket:
when grade insignia is
worn, the Command Patch
is worn in the
corresponding area.
4 CAP Aviation
Badges
(CAPR 35-6)
embroidered in white
cotton thread
centered 1/2 inch above
the cloth “Civil Air Patrol”
tape worn over the left
breast pocket of BDU,
field uniform and BDU or
dark blue field jacket.
Only one CAP
aviation badge
may be worn.
5 Specialty Insignia
(Chaplain, Legal,
Medical, EMT,
Ground Team)
embroidered in white
cotton thread
centered 1/2-inch above
the cloth “Civil Air Patrol”
tape worn over the left
breast pocket of BDU,
field uniform and BDU or
dark blue field jacket, 1/2
inch below aviation badge.
EXCEPTION: chaplain
insignia is worn 1/2 inch
above the aviation badge.
6 Communications
Patch
embroidered centered on the lower
portion of the left breast
pocket between left and
right edges and bottom of
flap and pocket of BDU
shirt, field uniform shirt
Worn by any
member earning a
rating in the
Communications
Specialty Track.

You may wear four badges so long as they are properly placed on the uniform.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on November 27, 2010, 02:01:08 PM
Thank you, so then what is the correct placement?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DBlair on November 27, 2010, 03:12:42 PM
In regards to the placement and number ob badges on the uniform, I only wear two on the blues according to reg. I wear three on my BDU, upon gaining my fourth, I do not know where it should be placed. I know many USAF and Army wear their fourth on their pocket flap, but where should you on the USAF style BDU for CAP? If all four are worn above the CAP tape then you wouldnt be able to see the fourth at all because it would be completely obstructed by the collar.

I'm not sure if this was addressed elsewhere, but which 3 are you wearing on the BDU and where?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: lordmonar on November 27, 2010, 03:14:23 PM
Max of two above the CAP Tape, one on the pocket (not the flap) and one above the Name Tape.

One, Two, Three, Four.

Having said that....only commanders are authorise the badge above the name tape and only the pocket rocket is authorised on the pocket (SF and Fire badges are only authorised when you are assigned to SF of Fire Duties...and no one in CAP is ever assigned to those duties).
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on November 27, 2010, 03:56:25 PM
[smg id=262]
I have seen this sort of thing more than a few times.

Mine is CIB, GT, and AASLT above the CAP Tape.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: cap235629 on November 27, 2010, 04:06:25 PM
[smg id=262]
I have seen this sort of thing more than a few times.

Mine is CIB, GT, and AASLT above the CAP Tape.

That is a picture of Stonewalls BDU's.  He has since reread the regulations and agrees that this is incorrect.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on November 27, 2010, 04:09:05 PM
EDITED FOR TACT

I have seen the stacking this way quite a few times, is all that I meant by the picture.

I think it is very odd that a person could only wear two badges above their tape, but they can wear as many large patches as they want on their pockets and above their nametape. Come on, there is the squadron patch (nothing against any of these patches, I wear my squadron patch and I like it) the Pluto patch, Hawk mountain, or Blue Beret. That starts to look a little funny to me. Why oh why if all those are ok, would it not be ok to wear three or four skill badges?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DBlair on November 27, 2010, 04:43:03 PM
EDITED FOR TACT

I have seen the stacking this way quite a few times, is all that I meant by the picture.

I think it is very odd that a person could only wear two badges above their tape, but they can wear as many large patches as they want on their pockets and above their nametape. Come on, there is the squadron patch (nothing against any of these patches, I wear my squadron patch and I like it) the Pluto patch, Hawk mountain, or Blue Beret. That starts to look a little funny to me. Why oh why if all those are ok, would it not be ok to wear three or four skill badges?

I don't necessarily disagree with you. That being said, pick two to wear above your CAP tape on your BDUs.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on November 27, 2010, 05:20:49 PM
[smg id=262]
I have seen this sort of thing more than a few times.

Mine is CIB, GT, and AASLT above the CAP Tape.

For starters, regardless of uniform worn you have to pick between the GT and AASLT, they are worn in the same place and it is an either / or not a both.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: flyboy53 on November 28, 2010, 05:25:52 AM
Max of two above the CAP Tape, one on the pocket (not the flap) and one above the Name Tape.

One, Two, Three, Four.

Having said that....only commanders are authorize the badge above the name tape and only the pocket rocket is authorised on the pocket (SF and Fire badges are only authorised when you are assigned to SF of Fire Duties...and no one in CAP is ever assigned to those duties).

You're on target, just don't confuse badges with patches.  Without reading between the reg's lines, as far as badges are concerned, it's two above the ribbons and, I think the old AF term was "one miscellaneous" badge under the ribbons or on the left pocket/flap of the BDUs, fatigues, what ever.  I've only ever seen people wearing one badge over the name plate or over the right pocket.

You can't wear it all, at some point you have to pick and chose.  Missileers and cops have to chose between their shield or pocket rocket or a recruiting, AETC Instructor, or some other special duty badge.  Thank goodness that many of the badges don't have a cloth version for the BDU...and fortunately things like recruiting badges and Security Forces shields are taken off when you leave that duty.

The same goes with patches. Security police and firefighters sometimes have to chose between a unit patch and their shield. I don't even wear the ES patch, although I'm qualified to do the same.

I think at last count, I had two AF badges, two special duty badges, observer wings and four CAP speciality badges. I only wear the two AF badges and the observer wings....with one AF badge under the pocket. On my BDUs are only the observer wings and my security forces qualification badge. It's impressive enough.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on December 10, 2010, 04:44:37 PM
Does anyone know the trick to make the jacket lay flatter when you are wearing a four across ribbon rack?
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/3994/1001509e.jpg) (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/1001509e.jpg/)
If you look at the left side of my Service Jacket you can see that it is held up from my chest by the rack. Does anyone know how to fix that?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on December 10, 2010, 05:13:49 PM
Most CAP members only wear 3 across, overlapping the pocket may be authorized, but it looks "off".
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: tsrup on December 10, 2010, 05:19:29 PM
From what it looks like, with your rack, you should just go to 3 across.  Since only have two ribbons hanging off in the "4" positions, and only one on top, you aren't going to gain any height on the rack.

It should solve your issue.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jimmydeanno on December 10, 2010, 07:13:01 PM
Yep, I'd switch to 3-across.  I'm sporting 22 ribbons, GTL & Observer wings without any problem.  I'm also wearing a 38R jacket, so it isn't because I have a huge chest... ;)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on December 10, 2010, 07:27:13 PM
How are you wearing 22 ribbons GTL and Observer wings if they are three in a row?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on December 10, 2010, 08:54:57 PM
a 7+1 rack, not all that uncommon for cadets.

(http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/m/mpzGWw7cJbyVhDTpuGh4LHg/140.jpg)

or

(http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/m/mv5Ud22vdIU5CNAObYYgyXg/140.jpg)

Seniors have the advantage of being able to short-stack.  I would personally suggest picking the top 3-4 military decorations
and then stick to CAP awards.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on December 10, 2010, 11:18:21 PM
The thing is though, jimmydeano isn't a cadet, his profile says he is 28. So 22 ribbons Observer wings and a GT badge (especially one with a star on it) would not fit inside the prescribed area. Or are you using your dad's profile jimmy? If so, no problem, I was just wondering if the reg has changed since the 39-1 or if I am missing something.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on December 10, 2010, 11:28:39 PM
Here's 23 with plenty of room to spare...

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/LtGen_Mark_A._Welsh_III.jpg/480px-LtGen_Mark_A._Welsh_III.jpg)
Lt. Gen. Mark Welsh III
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on December 10, 2010, 11:38:36 PM
21 in the same config Jimmydeano.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/General_Raymond_E._Johns%2C_Jr.jpg/480px-General_Raymond_E._Johns%2C_Jr.jpg)




Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on December 10, 2010, 11:40:21 PM
20 With plenty of room.

(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/593/gencarr.jpg)
(adjusted photos due to inability to count)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: NCRblues on December 11, 2010, 02:07:39 AM
To bad our VC's wings are above the top notched portion of the collar...  >:D
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on December 11, 2010, 03:03:15 AM
To bad our VC's wings are above the top notched portion of the collar...

OK...

It does appear to say that:
CAP Aviation Badges and Specialty Insignia: Highly polished, worn centered 1/2 inch above ribbons. 
All ribbons and devices must fall below the top edge of the notched collar. 
5. Ribbons:  (required) Worn centered above left breast welt, resting on but not over top edge with 3 or 4
in a row.  Wear all or some.  All ribbons and devices must fall below the top notch of the collar.
6. Military Aviation Badges: Highly polished, worn 1/2 inch above ribbons on left breast and 1/2 inch
below CAP aviation badge.


And as per usual is more confusing than necessary, referring to "badges" as "devices" (why?).

So...

If you troll Google you will see wings and other all over the place above the notch, including the 4-star above, who you would assume has
an adjutant, etc., to configure his uniform, so is this something which is just ignored?  I think every Phase IV cadet I have ever seen
is violating this, in fact I don't know how they wouldn't and still be able to wear "all".

(http://cac.cap.gov/images/Courter%20and%20King.jpg)

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: flyboy53 on December 11, 2010, 04:07:42 AM
Does anyone know the trick to make the jacket lay flatter when you are wearing a four across ribbon rack?
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/3994/1001509e.jpg) (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/1001509e.jpg/)
If you look at the left side of my Service Jacket you can see that it is held up from my chest by the rack. Does anyone know how to fix that?

You should have just left it at rows of three.

That would give you five full rows. In the future, I'd recommend that you check out places like Ultra Thin Ribbons or Medals for America and have your rack custom made. Ultra Thin's ribbons are on a plastic back and mounted with single minature medal bars. The plastic flexes with the form of your chest and would lay flat.

Another suggestion, should you chose to do so, would be to only wear the highest PD ribbon you achieve. You are already only wearing your highest cadet award.

I have 17 CAP ribbons and 14 AF ribbons. That would make 31 total. That ribbon bar was pretty expensive and I really didn't like the image it presented, so I scaled back considerably...but it would be your personal choice.

The one curious thing I've noticed in some of the CAP photos is that I thought you weren't supposed to have anything above the notch of the lapel and that rule seems to be disregarded, especially by our National Vice Commader...I also note, however, he's not wearing all of his AF stuff. There's at least one full row of ribbons missing.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jimmydeanno on December 11, 2010, 10:40:05 AM
The thing is though, jimmydeano isn't a cadet, his profile says he is 28. So 22 ribbons Observer wings and a GT badge (especially one with a star on it) would not fit inside the prescribed area. Or are you using your dad's profile jimmy? If so, no problem, I was just wondering if the reg has changed since the 39-1 or if I am missing something.

Dude, please.  I have more times around the sun in CAP than... :P  I am indeed 28.

Maybe it's the cut of my service coat or something. Maybe they cut the lapel a little higher and the pocket ended up a smidge lower.  But, I am able to do it, with the coat I have, and still be in regs.  With a difference of an inch and a half (rows of ribbons between yours and mine) I'd imagine they'd fit alright, no?

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: NCRblues on December 11, 2010, 06:03:36 PM
To bad our VC's wings are above the top notched portion of the collar...

OK...

It does appear to say that:
CAP Aviation Badges and Specialty Insignia: Highly polished, worn centered 1/2 inch above ribbons. 
All ribbons and devices must fall below the top edge of the notched collar. 
5. Ribbons:  (required) Worn centered above left breast welt, resting on but not over top edge with 3 or 4
in a row.  Wear all or some.  All ribbons and devices must fall below the top notch of the collar.
6. Military Aviation Badges: Highly polished, worn 1/2 inch above ribbons on left breast and 1/2 inch
below CAP aviation badge.


And as per usual is more confusing than necessary, referring to "badges" as "devices" (why?).

So...

If you troll Google you will see wings and other all over the place above the notch, including the 4-star above, who you would assume has
an adjutant, etc., to configure his uniform, so is this something which is just ignored?  I think every Phase IV cadet I have ever seen
is violating this, in fact I don't know how they wouldn't and still be able to wear "all".

(http://cac.cap.gov/images/Courter%20and%20King.jpg)

I agree its confusing, that's kind of why i pointed it out. If you also look at 39-1 cadets don't have to follow the top notch collar thing.....weird.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on December 11, 2010, 09:10:50 PM
Wow you got lucky... I don't have anywhere near that much room between my pocket and the top notch of my lapel. I'm very jealous. And I wear a 38R.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: caphornbuckle on December 11, 2010, 09:37:35 PM
From what I understand, the Air Force doesn't have to comply with the "top notch" rule.  Can anyone clarify if this is correct?

I seem to recall not too long ago of this and that CAP was looking to get rid of this rule as well.  Can't cite where I saw it but it was a CAP publication.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: HGjunkie on December 11, 2010, 09:42:56 PM
From what I understand, the Air Force doesn't have to comply with the "top notch" rule.  Can anyone clarify if this is correct?

I seem to recall not too long ago of this and that CAP was looking to get rid of this rule as well.  Can't cite where I saw it but it was a CAP publication.

Quote from: AF Uniform Manual
Air Force members are highly encouraged to wear their current occupational badge. Aeronautical
and chaplain badges are mandatory, others are optional. Wear only mid-size or regular badges, do
not mix sizes. Center aeronautical, occupational, or miscellaneous badge 1/2- inch above the top
row of ribbons. Center additional badge 1/2- inch above first one. Center duty or miscellaneous
badge 1 1/2 inches below top of welt pocket and centered, and/or on right side centered 1 1/2 inch
below the nametag. Center a third badge 1/2 inch above the name tag. No more than 4 badges
will be worn at one time. This includes Command Insignia. EXCEPTIONS: Missile badge is
only worn 1/2 inches below top of welt pocket and centered. Excellence-In-Competition badge is
worn centered on the welt pocket.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: caphornbuckle on December 11, 2010, 10:36:41 PM
From what I understand, the Air Force doesn't have to comply with the "top notch" rule.  Can anyone clarify if this is correct?

I seem to recall not too long ago of this and that CAP was looking to get rid of this rule as well.  Can't cite where I saw it but it was a CAP publication.

Quote from: AF Uniform Manual
Air Force members are highly encouraged to wear their current occupational badge. Aeronautical
and chaplain badges are mandatory, others are optional. Wear only mid-size or regular badges, do
not mix sizes. Center aeronautical, occupational, or miscellaneous badge 1/2- inch above the top
row of ribbons. Center additional badge 1/2- inch above first one. Center duty or miscellaneous
badge 1 1/2 inches below top of welt pocket and centered, and/or on right side centered 1 1/2 inch
below the nametag. Center a third badge 1/2 inch above the name tag. No more than 4 badges
will be worn at one time. This includes Command Insignia. EXCEPTIONS: Missile badge is
only worn 1/2 inches below top of welt pocket and centered. Excellence-In-Competition badge is
worn centered on the welt pocket.

This means I can assume that since the notch isn't mentioned than it's not an issue with the AF?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: HGjunkie on December 11, 2010, 10:38:18 PM
This means I can assume that since the notch isn't mentioned than it's not an issue with the AF?
That's what my understanding is.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on December 11, 2010, 10:51:31 PM
It's not an issue with the Air Force. The notch rule is a CAP invention.

And the way it's written in the 39-1, it only applies to your ribbons and devices. Wings and badges are not mentioned.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on December 11, 2010, 10:53:16 PM
I thought badges were also considered devices.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Hawk200 on December 12, 2010, 03:21:56 AM
I thought badges were also considered devices.
I've always thought the same thing, 39-1 says ribbons and devices must fall below the notch. However, Figure 5-1 states "All badges and devices must fall below the notch of the collar." Paragraph 5-2 only states "ribbons and devices."

Stuff like this is why this manual needs to be rewritten yesterday.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on December 12, 2010, 03:24:31 AM
Very confusing, sounds to me that your ribbons can go above the notch but your badges can't? Did I get that right? This is total sarcasm by the way. Just saying 39-1 needs changed like a jerk.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: caphornbuckle on December 12, 2010, 03:27:37 AM
The next time the "DRAFT" CAPM 39-1 comes out for comment (eventually), I suggest we all take a look through it with a fine tooth comb and point out the differences in wording, reg violations, etc and send your comments up your chain of command.

If this was done with the recent 39-1, we might not have gotten into this mess in the first place.

In fact, read all of the draft publications when they come out.  You'll be surprised what you might find!
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on December 12, 2010, 03:35:34 AM
Would love to see these drafts! I have just seen the first draft of a manual and it is the 50-17 I do believe. And I think they have done a rather good job, I know it is helpful for me and it has been 6 years since I was a cadet and this being my first year as a Senior Member it still is helpful to see some of that information.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on December 12, 2010, 03:41:43 AM
The whole thing is written in a very confusing manner.

I was referring to 39-1 and the interchangeable use of the word "badges" vs. "Devices".
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on December 12, 2010, 03:50:08 AM
It (50-17) didn't seem too confusing to me, I don't know why. Maybe you and I are talking about something different. Or maybe it was because I was a cadet and it is aimed at former cadets and I was able to relate to how the program works on the cadet side and I need some more explanation of the differences in the two sides of CAP.
Title: just a few questions please
Post by: starshippe on December 12, 2010, 12:26:59 PM
. . i noticed that the guide was corrected with respect to the air sar ribbon, going from 10 to 20 for the bronze clasp, but the count for silver was left at 50, instead of 100.
. . are clasps allowed on the presidential disaster ribbon?
. . we in georgia were awarded the national guard humanitarian assistance award for participation in support of the albany floods in 1994. i read in this forum that state awards are no longer allowed. is this true, even if we have the original citation signed by our wing commander?
. . on the aviator shirt uniform, can we use 4 across frames for the ribbons?
. . i do not see any height limit on ribbons and wings, etc., for the aviator shirt uniform. are there informal limits?

thanks,

bill
Title: questions on the page 5 ribbons
Post by: starshippe on December 12, 2010, 02:45:53 PM
. . it looks to me like all of the ribbons shown at the top of page 5 of the guide have find or sortie counts that are slightly off.
. . the propeller is considered a device, and not a clasp.
. . for the left hand find ribbon, the ribbon itself denotes a find, either a single distress find or a single non distress find. the propeller denotes that it was accomplished from an aircraft.
. . the middle find ribbons denotes one additional find award, which can be a single distress find, or a group of 20 non distress finds. theres no way to tell which. at least one was accomplished from an aircraft.
. . the right hand ribbon denotes a total of 7 finds. again, theres no way to tell what the mix is, and again, at least one was accomplished from an aircraft. in any event, the non distress finds would have to be a multiple of 20, not 10.
. . the first air sar ribbon denotes 70 sorties, some of which were as aircrew.
. . the middle air sar ribbon denotes 20 sorties, some as aircrew.
. . the right hand air sar ribbon denotes 10 sorties, some as aircrew.

. . if i have this incorrect, please let me know.

. . one of the displays shown below these ribbons answered a question i asked in my previous post, regarding clasps on the disaster relief ribbon, thanks.
 
regards,
bill
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: baronet68 on December 23, 2010, 04:58:48 AM
Over the past few weeks I've been able to scrape together some free time to update the McChord rack builder utility.  Notable changes are new rules for attachments on commanders commendation, lifesaving, and disaster relief awards plus the inclusion of the homeland security ribbon and the community service ribbon for senior members.

I'd love to hear any feedback.

http://www.mcchord.org/rack_builder/



-Michael
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on December 23, 2010, 05:08:58 AM
Mine looks good - even the more complicated ribbons with new(er) rules:

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/8011/rackio.jpg)

Mcchord has always been my rack builder of choice...
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PWK-GT on December 23, 2010, 03:32:42 PM
Ditto on being the builder of choice....+1 on the great job.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: vento on December 23, 2010, 03:52:52 PM
Mine looks good - even the more complicated ribbons with new(er) rules:

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/8011/rackio.jpg)

Mcchord has always been my rack builder of choice...

That's an impressive resume Sir. Happy Holidays.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: The CyBorg is destroyed on December 23, 2010, 05:20:51 PM
^^It is.

A lot better than my lame two-row rack...
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Bluelakes 13 on December 23, 2010, 05:30:11 PM
Mine looks good - even the more complicated ribbons with new(er) rules:

Mcchord has always been my rack builder of choice...

WOW - you kept track of all your sorties and finds?

Just re-did mine and it looks good:

(http://kalemis.com/rack.jpg)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on December 23, 2010, 05:40:20 PM
WOW - you kept track of all your sorties and finds?

Heck yes!  Made easier because some came in big chunks because of large-scale missions.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Phil Hirons, Jr. on December 23, 2010, 06:11:46 PM
I found an older image from the McChord tool. The new images are a lot nicer and they were good before
Title: Re: just a few questions please
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on May 23, 2011, 03:36:54 AM
. . are clasps allowed on the presidential disaster ribbon?

If you earned the presidential disaster ribbon for the Carter Administration, you get a clasp for the Obama hitch. If you weren't in CAP during Carter, you just wear the ribbon for Obama.

Wait... wrong kind of presidential disaster. Sorry.

 >:D

(Speaking of which, I need to update my rack below for the achievement award and the disaster relief ribbon with "V" for Deepwater Horizon.... hmm.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SoCalMarine on June 15, 2011, 04:04:18 AM
Attached is a guide I created on the proper wear of CAP ribbons. Makes things a lot easier to figure out than having to dig through a maze of regs and policy letters. This is only a guide - consult the latest CAP regulations and poliy letters for guidance.

So, this guide states that USCG Auxiliary awards may not be worn on a CAP uniform, but what about active duty USCG ribbons awarded to an Auxiliarist?

I think the USCGAux has the right idea: Auxies can choose to wear all, their top 3, or their choice of 9 ribbons.

Couple things.

1. We are not Auxies. That's kind of derogatory, even though I know you didn't intend it to be such. We are Auxiliarists. We are, at times, also referred to as Coasties as we are a co-equal part of Team Coast Guard.

2. The choice of how to wear ribbins in the USCGAUX (all letters should be capitalized by the way) isn't an AUX rule. Its a Coast Guard regulation that the Auxiliary follows.

3. Regardless of the 39-1 (primarily because its all over the place) I follow the USAF tradition of officers only wearing devices on their blues. When the 39-1 is contradictory all over the place, I'll get on board with the "must wear" idea. ;-p

I once asked a West Point Cadet what his ribbon was he was wearing.  His reply, "oh , um that is what we get when we get accepted to West Point".  The military does throw around too many awards and ribbons to people have no clue why they got them or what they are for.

Can anyone guess what ribbon he was wearing?

National Defense Service Medal?

Correct.  You win!

Haha, well I was given the ND upon graduating Boot Camp at Parris Island in 1994. It was still being awarded to all military personnel because the service period was from 1990-1995 for Desert Storm operations. Of course, its not technically a Marine Corps award so much as awarded to a Marine. Makes me feel good that the Corps doesn't have any ribbons that you are just handed for showing up. The only ribbons a Marine gets like that are DoD-wide ribbons like GWOT and the ND and so on.

If you can find a miniature for the Canadian award, why couldn't you wear it?

Because... CAP only recognizes foreign awards earned while either a member of CAP or in service to the US. His Canadian award was earned IN Canadian service. This is the same theory the individual branches have concerning devices. Someone in the Marines with NFO wings would not be eligible to wear them in the USAF upon making a lat move over. Most branches state that you can only wear another branch's device if you earned it while in your current branch. You generally can't port them over. So, same theory with recognizing awards. CAP/US military only recognize awards earned while in the US military.

Well I got to call BS on your pic.

from 36-2903
Quote
2. Air Force members are highly encouraged to wear their current occupational badge. Aeronautical
and chaplain badges are mandatory, others are optional. Center subdued embroidered badge
(aeronautical, occupational, or miscellaneous) 1/2 inch above US AIR FORCE tape. Center additional
badge 1/2 inch above the first badge. A third badge (duty or miscellaneous) may be worn
on lower portion of left pocket between left and right edges and bottom of flap and bottom of
pocket, this includes Missile and Excellence-In-Competition badges.
The badge on the pocket flap is not authorised.

Nor is the Black on green jump wings.

Just goes to show you that USAF personnel can get it wrong at well.

Ok, so how does that make the pic of the USAF uniform BS?
may be worn
on lower portion of left pocket between left and right edges and bottom of flap and bottom of
pocket, this includes Missile and Excellence-In-Competition badges

So it says that one CAN be worn on the pocket. It doesn't say what badges are ONLY authorized, is just gives a couple of inclusions as to what to put on the pocket.

The only badges that can be worn on the pocket itself are the Security Forces Badge, Firefighter Badge and the Missile Badges.

And the reg is pretty clear, nothing on the flap, period.

The cop that owns that shirt is going to have to make a decision, which badge to lose?
Amazingly enough, the speciality qualification badge (the one on the pocket flap) is not a required wear item, it's just encouraged.

And this my friends is why I am glad to have served in the Marines. For us, what it says on the left side nametape (US MARINES) is more important than all the "look-at-how-special-I-am" crap the other branches throw all over their uniforms. The Army has at least made a step in the right direction with their new ASU's with the exception of the CSIB. Who really cares what unit you were with when you saw combat? The point is that there's no problem with wearing stuff you've earned, but at some point you've got to be able to recognize when you've gone from looking professional to looking like a PX Commando (whether earned or not).
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: dougswolf2003 on June 17, 2011, 01:30:58 AM
I have a question. I am also new to this forum and am doing some research prior to getting involved with CAP. I am an Army vet with 19 years of service, I'm wondering if it is allowed to wear federal ribbons and awards received in the military on the CAP uniform and if it is allowed with CAP ribbons?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: davidsinn on June 17, 2011, 01:34:22 AM
I have a question. I am also new to this forum and am doing some research prior to getting involved with CAP. I am an Army vet with 19 years of service, I'm wondering if it is allowed to wear federal ribbons and awards received in the military on the CAP uniform and if it is allowed with CAP ribbons?

Ribbons and most awards are allowed on AF style uniforms but not the corporate versions. You can only wear CAP ribbons and awards on those.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: MSG Mac on June 17, 2011, 01:40:04 AM
I have a question. I am also new to this forum and am doing some research prior to getting involved with CAP. I am an Army vet with 19 years of service, I'm wondering if it is allowed to wear federal ribbons and awards received in the military on the CAP uniform and if it is allowed with CAP ribbons?

You may wear ribbons awarded by the Federal services. But not those awarded by state or local governments. IE My MAARNG unit was called up for service during the Bosnia campaign. For this we received the Army Overseas ribbon and the Commonwealth awarded us the Massachusetts Medal of Merit. I can wear the Army Overseas Ribbon but not the Medal of Merit or any of the other state awards. 
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: dougswolf2003 on June 17, 2011, 01:44:13 AM
what about qualification badges or combat badges like the Air Assault Badge and the Combat Infantryman's Badge?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: JC004 on June 17, 2011, 02:01:05 AM
what about qualification badges or combat badges like the Air Assault Badge and the Combat Infantryman's Badge?

The badges are listed in CAPM 39-1.

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M39_1_chap_6_sec_B.pdf
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: dougswolf2003 on June 17, 2011, 02:03:35 AM
thanks for the info folks, i was just wondering what i might be getting into, as far as uniform wear and appearance is concerned.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SoCalMarine on June 17, 2011, 02:05:13 AM
The badges are listed in CAPM 39-1.

Dude... you suck! Earlier I was reading a mesage and could have sworn I saw a bug on my screen but moved the page up and it disappeared. Now I just saw it again and realized its part of your signature! I thought I had fleas which would have been really weird for here in Denver!
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on June 17, 2011, 08:17:08 AM
LOL.


Yes, the fly.gif is quite the pest...on most forums...
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: JC004 on August 22, 2011, 03:52:27 AM
It has come to my attention that people have been downloading the outdated version of this and that the newer version was buried a few pages in.

I placed the most recent update of this document in the download for the first post. 

It's still a couple years old, so please let me know if another version was posted elsewhere on the forum and I missed it.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: AlphaSigOU on August 22, 2011, 04:12:04 AM
I haven't updated this guide since I moved out here to Kwajalein two years ago, but I'm looking at preparing an update when I get a chance to do so.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: wacapgh on August 22, 2011, 01:45:16 PM
what about qualification badges or combat badges like the Air Assault Badge and the Combat Infantryman's Badge?

The badges are listed in CAPM 39-1.

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M39_1_chap_6_sec_B.pdf

Just keep in mind that current USAF instructions do not match what is listed in 39-1.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: JC004 on August 22, 2011, 02:05:33 PM
I made a note about this for the ICL that I sent to Col Weiss but no go on that.  NHQ will have to address this somehow.  I can try sending it up but that's usually not worth the time.

I'm going to try sending at least a handful of things up to see where they go but I don't want to compromise my effectiveness locally by wasting a lot of energy trying to track down or push things that are getting sent to outer space.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Hawk200 on August 24, 2011, 12:39:48 PM
what about qualification badges or combat badges like the Air Assault Badge and the Combat Infantryman's Badge?

The badges are listed in CAPM 39-1.

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M39_1_chap_6_sec_B.pdf

Just keep in mind that current USAF instructions do not match what is listed in 39-1.
Which really isn't relevant. Unless the Air Force tells us to change it, that's what we go by.

2903 may give some ideas of guidelines to follow, but it is not binding for us.

I'm hoping that the Air Force might make allowances for wear of other service badges on our uniforms, regardless of uniform type. Let people that have earned things continue to wear them. (Not everything, mind you, I think the four badge limit is a good one. There has to be some kind of limits for the sake of decency. Of course there are a few other stipulations I would enact.)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: wacapgh on August 24, 2011, 04:54:07 PM
6-7. US Military Badges. CAP members may wear only the US military badges authorized for wear
on the US Air Force uniform when earned through qualification and awarded by competent authority for
service performed in any branch of the Armed Forces of the United States or its allies.

And that's the rub. We have one part of the regulartion that says only what is authorized for wear on the USAF uniform followed by a table that lists some badges that are not currently authorized for wear on the USAF uniform. The USAF changed its rules about 18 months after 39-1 was published, and we have not kept up with them.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: JC004 on August 25, 2011, 08:17:08 AM
This sort of thing could be done by ICL.  I had stuff like this in my draft ICL but I dunno if it will get anywhere, should I finish it and send it to National.  FW was going to sign it this week, but since that didn't work, I wonder who I could send it to for the best chance of getting signed?  Probably not the National CC, and probably not through the entire chain (that always makes things disappear and since this is NOT a proposal, it is merely an update to existing changes above my chain, I don't know...).

We spent a lot of time on member resources and all...I'd like to get as much of it approved as possible.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on August 25, 2011, 08:29:41 AM
What is it that you are wanting changed with your ICL exactly? Just curious, I know that there are inconsistencies in the 39-1, but what are you wanting to add/remove?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: lordmonar on August 25, 2011, 11:19:42 AM
This sort of thing could be done by ICL.  I had stuff like this in my draft ICL but I dunno if it will get anywhere, should I finish it and send it to National.  FW was going to sign it this week, but since that didn't work, I wonder who I could send it to for the best chance of getting signed?  Probably not the National CC, and probably not through the entire chain (that always makes things disappear and since this is NOT a proposal, it is merely an update to existing changes above my chain, I don't know...).

We spent a lot of time on member resources and all...I'd like to get as much of it approved as possible.
Well.....I have to say that I successfully got an uniform change all the way through the chain of command to the NB.  The adopted most of what I suggested.

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: JC004 on August 25, 2011, 07:38:23 PM
What is it that you are wanting changed with your ICL exactly? Just curious, I know that there are inconsistencies in the 39-1, but what are you wanting to add/remove?

The ICL that I made was a consolidated ICL because the current crap is too freaking confusing with multiple changes to things and some "we haven't decided on this yet."  I split it - changes to the uniforms that will remain in one ICL, and a separate ICL for the corporate uniform, which can just disappear once that's dead.  You shouldn't need to do a side-by-side of everything, trying to figure out what the heck the current standard is.  It's ridiculous.  I also wanted to adjust some things to changes the Air Force has made.

Well.....I have to say that I successfully got an uniform change all the way through the chain of command to the NB.  The adopted most of what I suggested.

I'm compiling my stuff and hopefully some of it can get done.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on August 26, 2011, 08:45:38 AM
What is it that you are wanting changed with your ICL exactly? Just curious, I know that there are inconsistencies in the 39-1, but what are you wanting to add/remove?

The ICL that I made was a consolidated ICL because the current crap is too freaking confusing with multiple changes to things and some "we haven't decided on this yet."  I split it - changes to the uniforms that will remain in one ICL, and a separate ICL for the corporate uniform, which can just disappear once that's dead.  You shouldn't need to do a side-by-side of everything, trying to figure out what the heck the current standard is.  It's ridiculous.  I also wanted to adjust some things to changes the Air Force has made.

Well.....I have to say that I successfully got an uniform change all the way through the chain of command to the NB.  The adopted most of what I suggested.

I'm compiling my stuff and hopefully some of it can get done.
What is it that you are wanting to adjust to changes the Air Force made?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: flyboy53 on August 26, 2011, 11:46:34 AM
Because the Air Force allows state ribbons as long as you are not on active duty. Also allowed limitedly by the Air Force are decorations and awards of U.S. Military Societies.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: JC004 on August 26, 2011, 06:00:59 PM
What is it that you are wanting to adjust to changes the Air Force made?

You ask me this while I have the laptop and not the netbook.  Just changes to existing uniforms (namely, no addition of the ABU or anything) like females with male flight caps, phase out of the gray scarves and all, etc.  I had also included clarification on how to wear mess dress medal devices (which isn't a change, but it isn't specified in 39-1, only in the AFI). 

Basically, I was working on a consolidated ICL with all the current changes and a phase-out date chart (removing all the crap and back and forth), a version that had some of the AF Uniform Board updates, and the CAP uniform information website based on the Air Force site (but better).
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Hawk200 on August 27, 2011, 02:41:54 AM
What is it that you are wanting to adjust to changes the Air Force made?

You ask me this while I have the laptop and not the netbook.  Just changes to existing uniforms (namely, no addition of the ABU or anything) like females with male flight caps, phase out of the gray scarves and all, etc.  I had also included clarification on how to wear mess dress medal devices (which isn't a change, but it isn't specified in 39-1, only in the AFI). 

Basically, I was working on a consolidated ICL with all the current changes and a phase-out date chart (removing all the crap and back and forth), a version that had some of the AF Uniform Board updates, and the CAP uniform information website based on the Air Force site (but better).
Why don't we do the right thing, and just update the publication? Then which ICL is the most current wouldbe a moot point, There needs to be a single source for information on any given subject, not a bunch of different letters.

Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of having to show people the most current ICLs on uniform items. I'm also frustrated by people wearing the wrong nametags with the wrong uniforms. I've mentioned to a senior that the blue nametag with name and "Civil Air Patrol" only on it is not authorized with blues, that was a CSU item. But, they "don't wanna have to buy another one."

All this stuff needs to get put in the right place. I know we have a corporate side, but we need to be a little less "corporate" in our actions, and start acting like a uniformed organization. Even if we were wearing a uniform that was unique to only us, it needs to be referenced in a single place. I shouldn't have to hunt all over Hades half acre to make absolutely certain that I have the latest. Publish a new pub, publish changes to the pub just like we used to. They were a lot easier that way. And with the electronic means available, it's not that hard.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: JC004 on August 27, 2011, 03:31:51 AM
I started preparing an ICL draft as a middle way because we need to make it easier but after asking multiple people who'd know, I was told there was no way they were publishing a new 39-1 until after the uniform committee did their thing, changes were approved by the National Board, things were reviewed by the Air Force, and all that goodness.

I figured that I could get away with creating the website with complete, current information.  People could use that instead and print from there instead anyway.  So it would sort of replace 39-1 in practicality unless you really wanted to print the regulation itself.  See where I was going here?  Might as well make it irrelevant if they won't change it...

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality.  To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." - R. Buckminster Fuller
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on August 27, 2011, 10:57:06 AM
The Air Force just came out with the long awaited revision to AFI 36-2903 (The Uniform Manual).
Now would be a good time to write that CAP Supplement to AFI 36-2903.
Why reinvent the wheel? ???
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: JC004 on August 27, 2011, 01:41:53 PM
A supplement would be too confusing - especially for those with no military background.  There are too many differences and things that don't apply.  I experimented with this, taking a supplement approach sample and a uniform manual sample.  The supplement was too confusing.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Hawk200 on August 29, 2011, 02:10:40 AM
The Air Force just came out with the long awaited revision to AFI 36-2903 (The Uniform Manual).
Now would be a good time to write that CAP Supplement to AFI 36-2903.
Why reinvent the wheel? ???
Not a case of reinventing it, just copy the wheel. And there are some obvious enough differences to 2903 that a supplement would not work.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing AF regs that are specific to CAP. Make everything we have into AF regs, and be done.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: GroundHawg on September 27, 2011, 09:22:53 PM
Has there been a supplement that adds the silver star to the Mitchell for the RCLS? I know you can wear it for COS, and can find docs to back that up, but I have a cadet wearing the star that has not been to COS and when asked about it stated it was for RCLS. I cannot find anything that says he/she is correct. Any assistance is appreciated.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jimmydeanno on September 27, 2011, 09:26:13 PM
There isn't a supplement.  The silver star is for cadets who have gone to COS, not RCLS - it's one of the ways you can distinguish who did what.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: JC004 on September 28, 2011, 08:31:43 AM
The star is recognition for completion of a very specific activity - COS.  It is like those for the Professional Development ribbons (ACSC, AWC).
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: im_not_a_sir on August 21, 2012, 03:38:44 PM
you can also just go to this website and enter your ribbons
<http://mcchord.org/rack_builder/>

it does cadet and senior ranks
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: im_not_a_sir on August 21, 2012, 04:15:13 PM
how high do wings go over ribbons?

is it the same for other things like Ground Team?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on August 21, 2012, 04:22:29 PM
how high do wings go over ribbons?

is it the same for other things like Ground Team?

1/2".

Yes.

39-1 is your friend.

Welcome to Captalk.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Devil Doc on September 02, 2012, 07:07:03 PM
only if i could wear my njrotc and ajrotc, military and cap ribbons. i would have around 40 ribbons. A 13 stack.. dont think that would be good. i will look like the dictator lol
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on September 02, 2012, 08:38:22 PM
only if i could wear my njrotc and ajrotc, military and cap ribbons. i would have around 40 ribbons. A 13 stack.. dont think that would be good. i will look like the dictator lol

If I wear all of my Federal military and CAP ribbons I have 38 ribbons. And you're right, it does look dumb.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Devil Doc on September 02, 2012, 10:25:06 PM
I know, it would look dumb. Just imagine, i only have 2 CAP ribbons. So most of them are JROTC, and or Military. It sucks i am not in weight standards, because i cannot wear my Military ribbons on my CAP uniform. Oh well, guess its motivation to loose 40 pounds.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on September 02, 2012, 10:28:29 PM
I know, it would look dumb. Just imagine, i only have 2 CAP ribbons. So most of them are JROTC, and or Military. It sucks i am not in weight standards, because i cannot wear my Military ribbons on my CAP uniform. Oh well, guess its motivation to loose 40 pounds.
But, unless you're a cadet dual-enrolled in an AFJROTC program, you can't wear your JROTC ribbons on any CAP uniform. That should help some. Many of our adult members have a chestful of military decorations and a pittance of CAP ribbons. That's nothing to feel bad about.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Devil Doc on September 02, 2012, 10:34:53 PM
Im an Senior member, but i cannot wear the Military ribbons on the Corprate, or the white aviator shirt, only the CAP AF blues, so again, im not in weight standards as i weigh 236. So come to think about it, i got too loose 50 pounds :( to wear all my chest candy.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on September 03, 2012, 12:57:53 AM
I wear the USAF style uniform, and to fit all my Army and CAP ribbons, along with my GTL and Contact badges, I had to add afalse pocket flap below my original one. Going four across just doesn't work on my size of jacket.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Critical AOA on September 03, 2012, 07:14:12 PM
only if i could wear my njrotc and ajrotc, military and cap ribbons. i would have around 40 ribbons. A 13 stack.. dont think that would be good. i will look like the dictator lol

(http://www.bing.com/th?id=AfbABoNhAnCgpDA200x300&bn=SANGAM&pid=13.1)

You know, I have seen members that almost look like this sans the beard of course.  A bit silly.  Strike that, a lot silly.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: RiverAux on September 03, 2012, 07:42:46 PM
Seeing as how the only way for a senior member to get an extremely crazy number of ribbons is to earn a bunch in the military and then a bunch in CAP, I'd hesitate to call them silly. 
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Garibaldi on September 03, 2012, 08:12:37 PM
Remember that Richard Pryor/Jackie Gleason movie "The Toy"? The kid in it had 3 plastic 80's era CAP ribbons on his military school uniform.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Stonewall on September 03, 2012, 08:23:59 PM
Seeing as how the only way for a senior member to get an extremely crazy number of ribbons is to earn a bunch in the military and then a bunch in CAP, I'd hesitate to call them silly.

The military has more silly ribbons than CAP, easy.  I also think it's silly for some to wear both sets of ribbons simultaneously.  Combined I have 39 ribbons, so not only would it be too costly, it would be too silly.  Sometimes there's a line that doesn't need to be crossed just for the point of showing off.
Title: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DemonOps on October 19, 2012, 11:42:47 PM
The U. S. Air Force requires mbrs to either wear all ribbons or none.  CAP leaves it up to its mbrs good judgement.

Some mbrs only wear military ribbons.  Others wear CAP ribbons with their top line their highest military medals (on blues blouse I wear four ribbons until I reach the collar then three, etc).

Does anyone else have something else
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Brad on October 20, 2012, 01:08:00 AM
Seeing as how the only way for a senior member to get an extremely crazy number of ribbons is to earn a bunch in the military and then a bunch in CAP, I'd hesitate to call them silly.

The military has more silly ribbons than CAP, easy.  I also think it's silly for some to wear both sets of ribbons simultaneously.  Combined I have 39 ribbons, so not only would it be too costly, it would be too silly.  Sometimes there's a line that doesn't need to be crossed just for the point of showing off.

Silly ribbons you say?

(http://i47.tinypic.com/2vnfe48.jpg)

The Ministry of Silly Walks Ribbons
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on October 20, 2012, 08:36:31 PM
Now I came here for a good argument... And I'm going to get one!
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: flyboy53 on October 21, 2012, 12:16:32 AM
Now I came here for a good argument... And I'm going to get one!

Don't think so. It's personal choice. I don't wear everything. I tried, ended up with a tall four-row ribbon bar and found it difficult to line up wings and badges above the ribbons. So. I went back to just my military stuff and one row of CAP ribbons. Isn't that enough.....
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: umpirecali on October 21, 2012, 12:49:10 AM
Now I came here for a good argument... And I'm going to get one!

Don't think so. It's personal choice. I don't wear everything. I tried, ended up with a tall four-row ribbon bar and found it difficult to line up wings and badges above the ribbons. So. I went back to just my military stuff and one row of CAP ribbons. Isn't that enough.....

You missed the Monty Python reference. It was a tongue-in-cheek comment.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: umpirecali on October 21, 2012, 12:56:26 AM
Now I came here for a good argument... And I'm going to get one!


[silly reference]
Oh look, this isn't an argument!
Yes it is!
No it isn't!
It's just contradiction!
No it isn't!
[/silly reference]
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on October 22, 2012, 10:08:28 AM
OK, glad some got it. I have all of mine, active and CAP. Somewhere around six rows? Idk, but it's OK, all it takes is a little slide ruler, and its done. I say slide ruler, because I don't know (almost typed idk  ::) ) what else to call it, but it's a little blue ruler, really small and thin, and it has a little blue slider on it. But it's really easy to read, and you can adjust the slide and use it to find exact center on lines and get everything as lost to perfect as you can. But the cool thing is that you can slide it under any badge when pinned to the shirt or jacket, it really helps when linking it all up.

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: RogueLeader on October 22, 2012, 10:15:47 AM
^its a stitch gauge.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Brad on October 23, 2012, 04:36:54 PM
http://www.vanguardmil.com/uniform-measuring-gauge-p-13786.html (http://www.vanguardmil.com/uniform-measuring-gauge-p-13786.html)

(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/00000000001267_LRG.jpg)
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SarDragon on October 23, 2012, 05:36:33 PM
You can get these cheaper at your local fabric store.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on October 23, 2012, 05:48:52 PM
I've got a couple transparent pocket rulers from Wal*Mart, etc.

I've got a couple of the sewing guides as well, but have found they are generally more trouble then they are worth.

Or you can just squarely cut a strip of plastic or foamboard, etc., to 1/2", since that's what you'll need 99.99999% of the time.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: MSgt Van on October 23, 2012, 05:57:26 PM
The chrome tip of your belt is 1/2". Should always have that handy!
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Garibaldi on October 23, 2012, 10:54:06 PM
I've always used a quarter to measure CAP cutouts and grade insignia. However, seeing as how not everyone carries a quarter these days, this sewing measuring thingy would be perfect for any situation.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SarDragon on October 23, 2012, 11:43:00 PM
FYI, a quarter is 1.2 mm too small.

YMMV.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Garibaldi on October 24, 2012, 01:47:26 AM
FYI, a quarter is 1.2 mm too small.

YMMV.

Pbbt. Well, I guess I can see your point on that, but we used the quarter as the standard at encampment back in the day. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: manfredvonrichthofen on October 24, 2012, 08:34:03 AM
FYI, a quarter is 1.2 mm too small.

YMMV.

Pbbt. Well, I guess I can see your point on that, but we used the quarter as the standard at encampment back in the day. Just sayin'.
What's nice about the small stitch Fisher is that it's small, thin, and can be slid up beneath the badges and ribbons so that it doesn't take a lot of manipulation, and it can get really accurate.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Chirpoff on December 13, 2012, 04:11:38 AM
Hello! I'm kind of new to posting here, so please forgive me and let me know if I'm in the wrong category, and I'll hop my question over there. :)

Do you know if there are any cadets that have ever earned all the cadet ribbons available? And are there any SMs that have earned all the SM ribbons - or both all cadet and SM ribbons together?

Just a curiosity question... it's an interesting thought.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: capsafety on December 13, 2012, 08:18:26 AM
These are the ribbons that CAP 39-3 show for cadets other than dual JROTC stuff added. I am sure that many cadets could earn alot of them but not all. The ones in the middle of the list from the Curry to the Spaatz can be earned if they stay in the program all the way through the Spaatz. The others are going to have more work to them and will be harder to quailfy for.

CADET RIBBONS
Decorations
Silver Medal of Valor
Bronze Medal of Valor
Distinguished Service Award
Exceptional Service Award
Meritorious Service Award
Commander’s Commendation Award
CAP Achievement Award
Lifesaving Award
National Commander’s Unit Citation Award
Unit Citation Award

Gen Carl A. Spaatz Award
Ira C. Eaker Award
Amelia Earhart Award
Gen Billy Mitchell Award
Neil Armstrong Achievement
Dr. Robert H. Goddard Achievement
Gen Jimmy F. Doolittle Achievement
Charles A. Lindbergh Achievement
Capt Eddie Rickenbacker Achievement
Wright Brothers Award
Mary Feik Achievement
Gen Hap Arnold Achievement
Gen J.F. Curry Achievement Service


Search “Find” Ribbon
Air Search and Rescue Ribbon
Disaster Relief Ribbon
Homeland Security Ribbon
Community Service Ribbon
IACE Ribbon
National Cadet Competition Ribbon
National Color Guard Competition Ribbon
Cadet Advisory Council Ribbon
Cadet Special Activity Ribbon
Encampment Ribbon
Cadet Recruiter Ribbon
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Texas Raiders on December 13, 2012, 10:16:44 AM
I commend CAP on granting veterans the option to wear their military awards/devices.  It's a very nice tip of the hat.  Not every veteran wants to wear them, but I do.  I come from a proud family with a strong military service background.  I am very proud of my service and what I accomplished while serving my country.  With all the fakers and imposters out there stealing real veterans' valor every day, I figure that if I don't wear mine, someone else will.  That's just my opinion.  Take it or leave it.  I will wear all of my military ribbons for as long as they fit while in standard rows of three.  Unfortunately, CAP doesn't recognize any USCG badges or devices (or at least none that I'm aware of) other than those from aviation specialties.  It is unfortunate because there are some devices/badges that signify great accomplishments in the USCG and are deemed more significant than many ribbons. 

Regardless of what you decide to wear, consult the appropriate charts for order and presidence as well as proper placement on the uniform.  Last but not least.....don't be a PX hero.  Earn it!

........and now, for something completely different.........
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jimmydeanno on December 13, 2012, 05:40:50 PM
Hello! I'm kind of new to posting here, so please forgive me and let me know if I'm in the wrong category, and I'll hop my question over there. :)

Do you know if there are any cadets that have ever earned all the cadet ribbons available? And are there any SMs that have earned all the SM ribbons - or both all cadet and SM ribbons together?

Just a curiosity question... it's an interesting thought.

I'm sure that there are some that are close, although it would be pretty difficult to do, considering that some are earned just by happenstance. It's not everyday that someone is presented with opportunities to earn the Silver AND Bronze medals of valor, as well as some of the higher commendations, like the Distinguished Service Medal.

I'm pretty active and have done a lot, but even then have only earned 24 of the possible 33 ribbons I can wear (~72%). As a cadet I earned 23 of the possible 33 available at the time (Feik, Armstrong, National Commander's Unit Citation, Nat CC Commendation, CD, HLS, VFW NCO, VFW Officer, and Achievement Medal didn't exist).  So, it is possible for a member to earn them all, but they have to participate in a number of areas significantly, as well as progress up the chain enough to have a bigger scope of influence (Wing Commander, Region Commander, etc), as well as have "good luck" in having bad things happen around them.
Title: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DemonOps on December 14, 2012, 02:29:17 AM
Kind of off remarks, but am I the only person who thinks the Homeland Defense ribbon is ugly?
Title: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DemonOps on December 14, 2012, 02:37:55 AM
There is nothing in CAP that mandates which awards to wear or not to wear, in order that badges are not higher than the notch on the service coat's collar.  So, you are free to use your judgement. 

Many mbrs simply wear their top three highest military ribbons above cap ribbons.  As previously suggested, try the 4 ribbon holder configuration.  Point:  your lapel should not cover more than half of the ribbon (nothing official, but seems what folks do).  Also lay your dress blouse down and see how many rows you can wear...
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Rick-DEL on December 14, 2012, 09:57:27 AM
I wear my USAF ribbons with my CAP ones (15 total). I do not, however, wear ribbons earned while I was in the Air National Guard if they were a state awarded ribbon (i.e. State Emergency Response, etc.). I am pretty sure that since I earned those in one state, but now live in another state where I participate in CAP, those cannot be worn. So, those two only exist in my shadow box at home. I have been in CAP not that long to earn many ribbons (only 4; Membership, Leadership, Yeager, and Disaster Relief w/V), so roughly ~75% of the rack are USAF ribbons with two breast crest above them (until I finish out MO status, then I will wear the wings instead).
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on December 14, 2012, 10:29:37 AM
I wear my USAF ribbons with my CAP ones (15 total). I do not, however, wear ribbons earned while I was in the Air National Guard if they were a state awarded ribbon (i.e. State Emergency Response, etc.). I am pretty sure that since I earned those in one state, but now live in another state where I participate in CAP, those cannot be worn. So, those two only exist in my shadow box at home. I have been in CAP not that long to earn many ribbons (only 4; Membership, Leadership, Yeager, and Disaster Relief w/V), so roughly ~75% of the rack are USAF ribbons with two breast crest above them (until I finish out MO status, then I will wear the wings instead).

IIRC, State awards are not worn at all. Only things that can be worn on the AF AD uniform.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on December 14, 2012, 10:38:10 AM
I wear my USAF ribbons with my CAP ones (15 total). I do not, however, wear ribbons earned while I was in the Air National Guard if they were a state awarded ribbon (i.e. State Emergency Response, etc.). I am pretty sure that since I earned those in one state, but now live in another state where I participate in CAP, those cannot be worn. So, those two only exist in my shadow box at home. I have been in CAP not that long to earn many ribbons (only 4; Membership, Leadership, Yeager, and Disaster Relief w/V), so roughly ~75% of the rack are USAF ribbons with two breast crest above them (until I finish out MO status, then I will wear the wings instead).

Brest crest?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: LGM30GMCC on December 14, 2012, 06:52:56 PM
I don't think there is a 'standard' military folks follow in CAP at all.

The only USAF-thing I wear on my service dress is my Missile Badge.

I can't do the 4 across thing as there is just no room on my chest. That and I think I would look silly with my 7 AF ribbons and umpteen CAP ribbons. I don't have an issue with the various CAP awards I've gotten and I'm proud of the things they represent. It may be simple, but I do think it is a nice way to appreciate someone. I have more respect for many of our CAP ribbons then I had for a lot of ROTC ribbons.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: 68w20 on December 14, 2012, 07:30:13 PM
I wear my USAF ribbons with my CAP ones (15 total). I do not, however, wear ribbons earned while I was in the Air National Guard if they were a state awarded ribbon (i.e. State Emergency Response, etc.). I am pretty sure that since I earned those in one state, but now live in another state where I participate in CAP, those cannot be worn. So, those two only exist in my shadow box at home. I have been in CAP not that long to earn many ribbons (only 4; Membership, Leadership, Yeager, and Disaster Relief w/V), so roughly ~75% of the rack are USAF ribbons with two breast crest above them (until I finish out MO status, then I will wear the wings instead).

Brest crest?

I would assume they're referring to AFSC insignia, such as:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/United_States_Air_Force_Maintenance_Badge.svg)

USAF Maintenance Badge

or

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/United_States_Air_Force_Force_Protection_Badge.svg)

USAF Force Protection Badge
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on December 14, 2012, 08:14:28 PM
I wear my USAF ribbons with my CAP ones (15 total). I do not, however, wear ribbons earned while I was in the Air National Guard if they were a state awarded ribbon (i.e. State Emergency Response, etc.). I am pretty sure that since I earned those in one state, but now live in another state where I participate in CAP, those cannot be worn. So, those two only exist in my shadow box at home. I have been in CAP not that long to earn many ribbons (only 4; Membership, Leadership, Yeager, and Disaster Relief w/V), so roughly ~75% of the rack are USAF ribbons with two breast crest above them (until I finish out MO status, then I will wear the wings instead).

Brest crest?

I would assume they're referring to AFSC insignia, such as:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/United_States_Air_Force_Maintenance_Badge.svg)

USAF Maintenance Badge

or

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/United_States_Air_Force_Force_Protection_Badge.svg)

USAF Force Protection Badge

FYI: Every AFSC has an Occupational Badge assigned.  Last time I looked there are about 15 or so badges.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on December 14, 2012, 09:44:05 PM
Then he would not wear two, unless one is considered an aviation badge.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: 68w20 on December 15, 2012, 01:25:22 AM
Then he would not wear two, unless one is considered an aviation badge.

It wouldn't be the first time someone wore the wrong badges.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: PHall on December 15, 2012, 01:58:57 AM
If he is wearing his Air Force uniform, then IAW AFI 36-2903, he can wear a max of 2 speciality badges.
But if he is wearing his CAP uniform, then IAW CAPM 39-1, he can wear just one badge.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Rick-DEL on December 19, 2012, 09:13:58 AM
Sorry fellas, I haven't checked-in recently. Yes, the two are USAF Specialty Badges as pointed out (and, the two images posted were the exact ones I have, nice guess). I was under the impression that 2 devices may be worn. I'll have to revisit 39-1. From what you are mentioning, it appears two can be worn only if one is an aviation type. If not, then only one may be worn. If that's the case, I can certainly remove one (the oldest, and maintain the most recent).

Once we get back into flying season, I have a few tasks to knock out to complete the requirements for MO. So, I'll be pulling one off anyways to make a home for the new CAP MO wings (on top). Might as well get a head start  ;)

I certainly want to ensure I stay in regs, thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: NorCal21 on December 29, 2012, 01:51:46 AM
If he is wearing his Air Force uniform, then IAW AFI 36-2903, he can wear a max of 2 speciality badges.
But if he is wearing his CAP uniform, then IAW CAPM 39-1, he can wear just one badge.

I'm not doubting you, but I just did a quick check through the 39-1 badges section and didn't see any specification of just one occupational badge from the USAF. Can you tell me what page and/or heading?
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: vincemoe on August 16, 2013, 09:13:31 PM
Thanks this is very helpful!
Title: Questions
Post by: DrKem on December 24, 2013, 03:11:38 PM
First, thank you so much for your posting!  The regulations can be a bit confusing.  I do have a couple of questions.
1.  As a cadet in the 1960's everyone in my squadron wore the Unit Citation Award for actions prior to my membership.  The squadron is not defunct.  I have no proof that the award was ever given other than of a photo from the 60's showing me wearing it.  My guess, reading the modern regs is that I don't wear this ribbon as a senior with a significant lapse of time.
2.  Are you sure that a senior member can wear the Encampment Ribbon for encampments earned as a cadet?  That explicit statement is not in the regs.  I'm confused on that point.
3.  I was a member of the Wing Drill Team that went to Regional Competition.  We came in second and I have a newspaper article outlining these statements but again, the squadron is now defunct and there are no records that survive other than this article.  Is it worth it to submit this to NHQ or a waste of time?
4.  My cadet service record that was updated by NHQ shows that I served for more than two years but I never received a Service Ribbon.  Are Service Ribbons awarded by CAP or do you only demonstrate your two years via your record?

Any help you folks give this newbie is greatly appreciated.  I want to wear what I earned, but I don't want to wear what is not allowed.  Integrity first.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: arajca on December 24, 2013, 03:28:05 PM
First, thank you so much for your posting!  The regulations can be a bit confusing.  I do have a couple of questions.
1.  As a cadet in the 1960's everyone in my squadron wore the Unit Citation Award for actions prior to my membership.  The squadron is not defunct.  I have no proof that the award was ever given other than of a photo from the 60's showing me wearing it.  My guess, reading the modern regs is that I don't wear this ribbon as a senior with a significant lapse of time.
If you were a member of a unit DURING THE TIME FRAME the UC was awarded for, you may wear it regardless of any lapse in service - provided you can document this.
Quote
2.  Are you sure that a senior member can wear the Encampment Ribbon for encampments earned as a cadet?  That explicit statement is not in the regs.  I'm confused on that point.
Yes. Activity awards earned as a cadet are retained when transitioning to seniordom.
Quote
3.  I was a member of the Wing Drill Team that went to Regional Competition.  We came in second and I have a newspaper article outlining these statements but again, the squadron is now defunct and there are no records that survive other than this article.  Is it worth it to submit this to NHQ or a waste of time?
Are you listed by name in the article? If so, give it a shot. The worst that will happen is NHQ will say no.
Quote
4.  My cadet service record that was updated by NHQ shows that I served for more than two years but I never received a Service Ribbon.  Are Service Ribbons awarded by CAP or do you only demonstrate your two years via your record?
You can use your record to document the award of the Red Service Ribbon.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: The Infamous Meerkat on December 24, 2013, 03:38:36 PM
Sir,
1.)I'll admit I don't understand everything about the award regs, but (and this is dangerous territory) I have been told that you wear the unit citations of the unit you are with, regardless of when the unit earned them. I don't believe this is true, and as such (while the regs may have allowed it in the 60's, I firmly believe that you can only wear unit citations for the unit you are assigned to, while you are assigned to that unit.
2.)Absolutely you can wear that encampment ribbon, but you may run into someone like myself who would request some sort of evidence... Hopefully you have something on paper.  :-\
3.)It can't hurt to try, after all, NHQ records might have something you don't and if the article is from a credible news agency, I could see them approving it to be on your record.
4.)I was never awarded the RSR on Eservices either, but that may be a lack of good paperwork handling in my squadron or some such thing. If it shows you have two years of service on your records, I'd run the paper up the chain and see what happens.

Hope that's helpful in some way...
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: jeders on December 24, 2013, 03:41:40 PM
1.)I'll admit I don't understand everything about the award regs, but (and this is dangerous territory) I have been told that you wear the unit citations of the unit you are with, regardless of when the unit earned them.

100% wrong, and this was recently (the last few years) clarified in the regs. If you are in a unit that is awarded a UC, you wear it forever. If you transfer into a unit that was awarded a UC before you got there, you do not wear it.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: lordmonar on December 24, 2013, 03:45:26 PM
Kevin,

You were told wrong.

In the USAF and CAP you only wear unit citations from units you were a member of when that unit was awarded the citation.

This is an ARMY thing that has snuck into CAP and despite clear regulations on it....we just can't seem to kill it.

Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DrKem on December 24, 2013, 03:52:08 PM
Folks,  thanks for the quick posting!  1.  I read the regs to say that you can wear the UC forever IF your unit earned it when you were a member.  I have no idea why the old squadron had new cadets wear the ribbon.  I was not part of the rescue and recovery effort.  Maybe the regulations changed from what was allowed in the 1960's.  2.  NHQ kindly posted my encampments and they are on eservices now.  I'll wear my encampment ribbons! 3.  Yep, I'm listed and the regional competition dates and location are listed.  A local newspaper in Kansas City did it right all those years ago!  I'll submit to NHQ and see what they do. 4.  I have awards that span 4.5 years and I was active for close to 6 but can't prove it.  The two year ribbon should be a no-brainer though.  Like I said though, I'm all about integrity. 

Thank you so much for your input!
Happy Holidays!
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: The Infamous Meerkat on December 24, 2013, 06:26:48 PM
Kevin,

You were told wrong.

In the USAF and CAP you only wear unit citations from units you were a member of when that unit was awarded the citation.

This is an ARMY thing that has snuck into CAP and despite clear regulations on it....we just can't seem to kill it.

Thanks for the clarification gents, I was pretty sure it was wrong too, hence the added sentence in that line.  ;D

DrKem, Glad to hear national was able to help you out! They are usually very accommodating, though they didn't allow me to keep my old CAP ID when I reapplied to be a Senior Member (they also had my name wrong on my old record, which complicated matters). That was my only bad experience, and it wasn't really that bad...
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: HaroldBuchanan on December 18, 2016, 04:21:34 AM
So reading the guide linked in the first page,

it indicates:
Quote
• When wearing military ribbons on the Air Force-style or CAP blue corporate uniform, Air Force ribbons take precedence over ribbons from other services.

however the 39-3 indicates
Quote
CAPR 39-3 ATTACHMENT 2 (CONT’D) 28 DECEMBER 2012 31
SENIOR RIBBONS
US Military Decorations and Ribbons (Worn in order of precedence)

This would seem to indicate that if you have multi service ribbons, that you would intermix them according to official order of precedence, not wear Air For ribbons taking precedence.  Not sure why that note was included in the guide when it is not indicated in the 39-3
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DakRadz on December 18, 2016, 08:41:21 AM
I believe this is the answer- you have to look at CAPM 39-1, which states

Quote
11.2.1.1.  US  Awards.  Federal  awards  awarded by  competent  authority  may  be  worn on USAF-style  uniforms  in accordance  with  instructions  contained in  AFI  36-2903.  National  Guard  awards will  not  be  worn.

And further, AFI 36-2903, which states

Quote
11.3.2.    Air Force  awards  take  precedence  over equal awards  from other Services.

Directly below that, in 11.4, the AFI lists every ribbon in order of precedence and the USAF ribbons are always first.

To my knowledge, there is not a true order of precedence- I thought each service had their own. I could be mistaken.

1st Lt Raduenz
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: kwe1009 on December 18, 2016, 10:46:54 AM
I believe this is the answer- you have to look at CAPM 39-1, which states

Quote
11.2.1.1.  US  Awards.  Federal  awards  awarded by  competent  authority  may  be  worn on USAF-style  uniforms  in accordance  with  instructions  contained in  AFI  36-2903.  National  Guard  awards will  not  be  worn.

And further, AFI 36-2903, which states

Quote
11.3.2.    Air Force  awards  take  precedence  over equal awards  from other Services.

Directly below that, in 11.4, the AFI lists every ribbon in order of precedence and the USAF ribbons are always first.

To my knowledge, there is not a true order of precedence- I thought each service had their own. I could be mistaken.

1st Lt Raduenz

You are correct that there is no single order of precedence for military awards.  It is because each military branch has an order of precedence. 

To not over complicate, when wearing USAF-style uniforms your ribbons follow AFI 36-2903 and then add CAP ribbons underneath.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on December 18, 2016, 12:52:45 PM
When CAP pubs do not instruct members to look in the military regs before asking for help, members do. Now CAP pubs direct members to look at military regs, members will not?

C'est la vie!


 >:D


Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: GaryVC on December 18, 2016, 12:56:27 PM
When I joined the Air Force in 1970, members wore all the unit citations of the unit they were in regardless of when they were received. However, a few years after that it was changed to what it is now for both the Air Force and CAP. You only wear unit citation ribbons if you were in the unit when they were awarded.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: Eclipse on December 18, 2016, 01:01:13 PM
So reading the guide linked in the first page,

it indicates:
Quote
• When wearing military ribbons on the Air Force-style or CAP blue corporate uniform, Air Force ribbons take precedence over ribbons from other services.

Note the date of that guide.  While most of the info is still correct, the above references a uniform combination that no longer exists.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: HaroldBuchanan on December 18, 2016, 03:31:00 PM
I believe this is the answer- you have to look at CAPM 39-1, which states

Quote
11.2.1.1.  US  Awards.  Federal  awards  awarded by  competent  authority  may  be  worn on USAF-style  uniforms  in accordance  with  instructions  contained in  AFI  36-2903.  National  Guard  awards will  not  be  worn.

And further, AFI 36-2903, which states

Quote
11.3.2.    Air Force  awards  take  precedence  over equal awards  from other Services.

Directly below that, in 11.4, the AFI lists every ribbon in order of precedence and the USAF ribbons are always first.

To my knowledge, there is not a true order of precedence- I thought each service had their own. I could be mistaken.

1st Lt Raduenz

I like the portions you cite, but I think it actually supports what I had to say. Specifically the citation indicates that Air Force award take precedence over equal awards. I am talking about co mingled precedence.  Each ribbon has its own ranking. By example if a person was to theoretically have a good conduct ribbon from both the Air Force and the army, then the regulation clearly indicates they would wear their Air Force GC above their army GC. However if a person had an army commendation ribbon and an Air Force achievement ribbon, and others of varying degrees of presidance, it seems clear that 11.3.2 would have us put them in a joint service order of presidance. Now as it turns out, this doesn't actually apply to me as I only have army and cap ribbons, but it something in the guide I noticed that appears incorrect.


After posting this, I opened up AFI 36-2903 and turned out the list there in fact does have commingling of joint ribbons, indicating that in fact the guide should be updated to reflect you wear "ribbons according to the joint order of presidance as published in AFI 36-2903." Or something like that, as well as deleting the reference to the obsolete uniform combination pointed out by the other member
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: DakRadz on December 18, 2016, 04:05:14 PM
I see where you are coming from.

The official order of precedence is the Air Force order.

Air Force ribbons go above the equivalent ribbon from other services, but it is mixed by award importance or ranking, not sorted by branch.

If you look at 11.4 in the AFI, that's correct.

39-3 is in that one spot poorly worded (just a tiny bit) but still very technically correct.

And I see I waited too long, as you did in fact find it. All's well what ends well.


1st Lt Raduenz
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: RogueLeader on December 19, 2016, 05:33:45 PM
I should also note the Ultrathins has an excellent ribbon rack builder (you don't have to buy them.  Select the Civil Air Patrol Order of precedence, and add all or some of the  ribbons authorized, and it shows, and lists, the ribbons in the proscribed order.
Title: Re: The proper wear of CAP ribbons
Post by: SarDragon on December 19, 2016, 08:21:26 PM
I should also note the Ultrathins has an excellent ribbon rack builder (you don't have to buy them.  Select the Civil Air Patrol Order of precedence, and add all or some of the  ribbons authorized, and it shows, and lists, the ribbons in the proscribed  prescribed order.

FTFY. They mean exactly the opposite.