May 31, 2020, 08:20:13 am

20 and out: Part Deux

Started by Simplex, December 25, 2018, 02:41:24 am

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SarDragon

Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 01:09:07 pm
For the CAP retirement benefits, must a senior member be in CAP for at least 20 years like the military?


Define "CAP retirement benefits".
Twenty years is the magic number to retire.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Color Guard Rifleman

Quote from: SarDragon on January 10, 2019, 02:17:22 pm
Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 01:09:07 pm
For the CAP retirement benefits, must a senior member be in CAP for at least 20 years like the military?


Define "CAP retirement benefits".
Twenty years is the magic number to retire.


I not benefit, just the minimum number of years to get the retirement packet with all of your CAP information such as your personnel record
C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
2019 MIWG Encampment Squadron 2 First Sergeant
Recruiting NCO

See the source image

SarDragon

That's the first I have ever heard of a "retirement packet". Where did that bit of info come from?

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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Color Guard Rifleman

Quote from: SarDragon on January 10, 2019, 04:46:43 pm
That's the first I have ever heard of a "retirement packet". Where did that bit of info come from?

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Quote from: Simplex on November 27, 2018, 07:38:39 pm
It's been quite a ride. Like anything else in life, good times and bad times, but mostly good. Met lots of great people a few who'll be friends for life. This forum has been great, I've learned a lot. Thanks to those who participate especially those 'old salts' who chime in with a wealth of knowledge. You can imagine my excitement when my retirement packet arrived from NHQ.  I opened it and first to be pulled out was the very nice certificate, name, grade and dates of service all signed by the CAP Commander. Beside the fact that there was a crease running across the certificate at a 45 degree angle it was impressive. It looked liked it slipped off a desk and someone grabbed it and bent it in half was a minor thing. Next came the retirement letter, addressed to me with name rank and mailing address, but it was dated a year ago 31 Oct 2017 and the salutation began Dear Colonel (I'm/was a Major) Somebody Else, thank you for your years of service etc. Next the copy of my CAPF 2A all stamped with date/time received with the CAP Seal down in the lower left hand corner. But the stamp was over inked and dribbled across the bottom of the form. The wife said 'send it back', no I said,  I'll keep it as is. That about sums it up. So long everyone, keep your airspeed up. Simplex, out!


It came from here.
C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
2019 MIWG Encampment Squadron 2 First Sergeant
Recruiting NCO

See the source image

Simplex

Yes, 20 years is the minimum, however, it does not have to be all inclusive. There can be a break in service so as long as it adds up to 20...you're in!

Hope this helps.

Simplex

PostScript: Cadet time does not count, just Senior time.

Color Guard Rifleman

Quote from: Simplex on January 10, 2019, 05:42:34 pm
PostScript: Cadet time does not count, just Senior time.


Good to know. What usually comes in the "retirement packet"?
C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
2019 MIWG Encampment Squadron 2 First Sergeant
Recruiting NCO

See the source image

Eclipse

Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.



Color Guard Rifleman

Quote from: Eclipse on January 10, 2019, 07:15:14 pm
Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.


But do you get your personnel file?
C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
2019 MIWG Encampment Squadron 2 First Sergeant
Recruiting NCO

See the source image

SarDragon

IIRC. the record remains the property of CAP, but you are free to make a copy before you retire. I maintain my own copy of my record, anyway.

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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Eclipse

Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 07:36:44 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on January 10, 2019, 07:15:14 pm
Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.


But do you get your personnel file?


No, as the unit is required to keep it for five years, however you ciould ask for a copy.

As more and more is moved into eServices and units are going paperless, in a lot of cases it's just .pdfs.




TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 07:36:44 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on January 10, 2019, 07:15:14 pm
Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.


But do you get your personnel file?


Just as an FYI---You can ask for copies of your personnel record at any time, as a cadet or senior. So if there's ever anything you want to look at in your file, just ask the appropriate person at your unit. Be advised that they might not have the time to just drop whatever they're doing to go get it for you or supervise you while you take a look, as well as the time to copy it for you if it's paper. But you shouldn't be denied the ability to look at some point (i.e., "No, you can't see it" versus "Sure, but can we do it next week?").

Your record is not private from your eyes. It's your record.

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on January 10, 2019, 07:47:38 pm
Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 07:36:44 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on January 10, 2019, 07:15:14 pm
Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.


But do you get your personnel file?


No, as the unit is required to keep it for five years, however you ciould ask for a copy.

As more and more is moved into eServices and units are going paperless, in a lot of cases it's just .pdfs.


I'm not sure its precisely a requirement to maintain the record if the member has left through retirement or expiration AND requested it.

(think of a retirement like a transfer in terms of the unit's *need* to maintain the record. You don't keep a copy of a transferring member's file for five years, do you?)

If you have it, you're required to maintain it for x time.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
Nothing posted on CAPTalk should be considered policy unless otherwise stated
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2020 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.



NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2019, 08:26:07 pm
So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.


Well, one could assume they exist. :)

I think the idea is "member leaves or retires from CAP. Screen these files to inactive and &  hold for 5 years and then destroy."  IOW: no more than 5 years.  And thats a convenience for the member, not the unit.

If I was an inspector and came in and saw no inactive files, I'd be suspicious.



Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
Nothing posted on CAPTalk should be considered policy unless otherwise stated
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2020 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Spaceman3750

Quote from: NIN on January 11, 2019, 09:10:50 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2019, 08:26:07 pm
So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.


Well, one could assume they exist. :)

I think the idea is "member leaves or retires from CAP. Screen these files to inactive and &  hold for 5 years and then destroy."  IOW: no more than 5 years.  And thats a convenience for the member, not the unit.

If I was an inspector and came in and saw no inactive files, I'd be suspicious.


A lot of SUI suffering could be alleviated with a widget to upload files to a member's record in member search, much like the widget in ops qual. Think about it - thousands of volunteer hours (not to mention stress and frustration) eliminated with a couple hundred lines of code.

It's 2019. Can we PLEASE do this?

shuman14

Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2019, 08:26:07 pm
So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.


Does CAP keep any type of historical record of it's membership indefinitely?

So if Little Johnny is doing historical research project for School on Great Uncle Stanley, who served in CAP during WWII and the Cold War, would CAP be able to provide any information about Stanley for the young Lad?
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Eclipse

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on January 11, 2019, 11:31:03 pm
Quote from: NIN on January 11, 2019, 09:10:50 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2019, 08:26:07 pm
So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.


Well, one could assume they exist. :)

I think the idea is "member leaves or retires from CAP. Screen these files to inactive and &  hold for 5 years and then destroy."  IOW: no more than 5 years.  And thats a convenience for the member, not the unit.

If I was an inspector and came in and saw no inactive files, I'd be suspicious.


A lot of SUI suffering could be alleviated with a widget to upload files to a member's record in member search, much like the widget in ops qual. Think about it - thousands of volunteer hours (not to mention stress and frustration) eliminated with a couple hundred lines of code.

It's 2019. Can we PLEASE do this?


There should no longer be a requirement to keep local files at the unit level, there is nothing
important that isn't tracked in eServices.



SarDragon

Quote from: shuman14 on January 11, 2019, 11:40:48 pm
Does CAP keep any type of historical record of it's its membership indefinitely?

So if Little Johnny is doing historical research project for School on Great Uncle Stanley, who served in CAP during WWII and the Cold War, would CAP be able to provide any information about Stanley for the young Lad?


Apparently, olde paper records do exist, but they are supposedly squirreled away somewhere, inaccessible to members. I would love to get loose with them for a week or two to do research.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Lord of the North

Posted by: Eclipse
« on: 11 Jan 2019 at 12:08:04 AM »

[/quote]
There should no longer be a requirement to keep local files at the unit level, there is nothing
important that isn't tracked in eServices.
[/quote]

I continue to hear that local personnel files are no longer needed, nor required.  Actually CAPR 39-2 (dated 9 January 2017) is clear on the requirement.  Please refer to paragraph 1.7 of that regulation as shown in the portions of that paragraph provided below:

"Active Records. The member's unit of assignment maintains personnel records. Personnel files maintained locally may be traditional paper files or electronic files created at the unit."

Later, in that paragraph; "At this time, the eServices online record cannot be used as the only personnel file since all information concerning the member is not currently tracked online.  Those items recorded in eServices are not required to be entered in the local personnel file. Any items not recorded in eServices or additional information pertaining to the member's service and performance that should be retained should be made a part of the local personnel records."
Currently there is no way to award Activity and Service ribbons (see paragraph 19 of CAPR 39-3) in e-services.  You MAY enter previously awarded Activity and Service ribbons into e-services AFTER they have been approved in accordance with CAPR 39-3, but the local personnel file should have the approved award (usually a CAPF 2a) documentation for the individual(s) who were recipients of the award.  The following information was provided by NHQ when the ability to enter activity and service ribbons into eServices was implemented"

"Members may now upload previously approved activity and service ribbons through the "My Account" section of eServices.  Simply click on the "Service Ribbons" tab on the left side of the screen to add previously authorized ribbons. The member can then enter the date and the ribbon earned.  Ribbon submissions will be sent to the unit commander for validation prior to displaying in the individual's member record.  Validation authority is also available to the Deputy Commander and Chief of Staff.
The ability to award new activity and service ribbons is not a part of this module but is in the plan for future development."


To me, after review of the above information a couple of points are clear.
1.   Local personnel files ARE required by regulation (CAPR 39-2, para 1.7).
2.   The eServices online record cannot be used as the only personnel file since all information concerning the member is not currently tracked online.
3.   The local personnel files may be either paper or electronic files.
4.   The entry of the award of Activity and Service ribbons into eServices can be accomplished ONLY AFTER the award(s) have been approved in accordance
        with CAPR 39-3, which was stated in the implementation instructed provided when the ability was created in eServices.