May 28, 2020, 07:27:28 am

20 and out: Part Deux

Started by Simplex, December 25, 2018, 02:41:24 am

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Spaceman3750

Quote from: Lord of the North on January 12, 2019, 08:13:12 am

To me, after review of the above information a couple of points are clear.
1.Local personnel files ARE required by regulation (CAPR 39-2, para 1.7).
2.The eServices online record cannot be used as the only personnel file since all information concerning the member is not currently tracked online.
3.The local personnel files may be either paper or electronic files.
4.The entry of the award of Activity and Service ribbons into eServices can be accomplished ONLY AFTER the award(s) have been approved in accordance
        with CAPR 39-3, which was stated in the implementation instructed provided when the ability was created in eServices.


He wasn't saying they're not currently required, he's saying they shouldn't be required.

I can see a need to keep some extra records - PAs for finds, etc. but that shouldn't require the unit to have a huge regulatory burden. Just upload the files to eServices.

On the point of service and activity ribbons, that's another great place to streamline. You went to the activity, it gets listed in eServices, you wear the ribbon. Why mess around with more paperwork than there needs to be?

We talk a lot about how valuable our volunteers are, and yet we continue to waste their time on personnel files, record retention, and paperwork for encampment ribbons when the tools to manage all of this centrally and automatically have existed for 20 years everywhere but our organization.

Eclipse




TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on January 12, 2019, 07:37:03 pm

On the point of service and activity ribbons, that's another great place to streamline. You went to the activity, it gets listed in eServices, you wear the ribbon. Why mess around with more paperwork than there needs to be?

We talk a lot about how valuable our volunteers are, and yet we continue to waste their time on personnel files, record retention, and paperwork for encampment ribbons when the tools to manage all of this centrally and automatically have existed for 20 years everywhere but our organization.


This.

NIN

Not to mention a lot of storage.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
Nothing posted on CAPTalk should be considered policy unless otherwise stated
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2020 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 12, 2019, 09:51:04 pm
On the point of service and activity ribbons, that's another great place to streamline. You went to the activity, it gets listed in eServices, you wear the ribbon. Why mess around with more paperwork than there needs to be?


Encampment and NCSA ribbons are probably the perfect example of this.

When the CC clicks "submit", credit posts immediately.  Member wears it or adds an attachment.

Yet CC's all over the place still want to do a 2a.



PHall

Quote from: Eclipse on January 13, 2019, 01:46:03 am
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 12, 2019, 09:51:04 pm
On the point of service and activity ribbons, that's another great place to streamline. You went to the activity, it gets listed in eServices, you wear the ribbon. Why mess around with more paperwork than there needs to be?


Encampment and NCSA ribbons are probably the perfect example of this.

When the CC clicks "submit", credit posts immediately.  Member wears it or adds an attachment.

Yet CC's all over the place still want to do a 2a.


Because they've been told over and over that you must have a "source document" for all awards and decorations.

RiverAux

Personnel files stores electronically at the unit level would scare me to death without some very specific requirements for use of that system.  For example, requiring that multiple people have full access at all times rather than it being at the CC's house on his 15 year old computer. 

Eclipse

Anywhere but the cloud with Wing having control should be verboten.

But really? It doesn't matter. Most members never look at them, and if every beat up plastic file carrier at every unit disappeared right now, it would have little effect on anything except shortening some SUIs.



RiverAux

Oh, I've never thought that the ribbons, etc. are really all that motivating to CAP members, but I think most would be quite upset if their records just wen poof.. 

Eclipse

But that's just it - they won't any more.

New stuff is in there, historic stuff should be, and if it's not it's on the member.

Enter it, scan it /  shred it / give to member, move on.



Devil Doc

Not sure about yall, but out f my 10 CAP Ribbons, only 4 are shown in EServices. I have some that I submitted myself, but out of the ones that NHQ has submitted.... it only shows 4. So I think there still needs to be a paper record since eServices is not perfect.
Captain Brandon P. Smith CAP
Former HM3, U.S NAVY
Too many Awards, Achievments and Qualifications to list.


Eclipse

You need to go in and enter historical awards.



TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Eclipse on January 14, 2019, 05:08:36 am
You need to go in and enter historical awards.


So...for historical awards, can those only be entered by the member (not on their behalf)?

If that's the case, which I thought it was, that seems to be a pain---as some people are so horrible at tracking their own items, and some units were historically bad at tracking for them through personnel record-keeping.

Eclipse

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 14, 2019, 03:25:35 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on January 14, 2019, 05:08:36 am
You need to go in and enter historical awards.


So...for historical awards, can those only be entered by the member (not on their behalf)?

If that's the case, which I thought it was, that seems to be a pain---as some people are so horrible at tracking their own items, and some units were historically bad at tracking for them through personnel record-keeping.


That's my understanding last time I looked into it.  Member enters and provides substantiation, higher HQ approves.
In some cases all they had was the pic of a cert, or even them getting the award in a shake and take.

No argument about historically poor record keeping, but these days there no excuse, and if it's not important enough to
the member to do it, then it's not important enough for anyone else to care, either.

The average member is going to have a handfull of things to enter, and some might not ever be provable,
but some is better then none, and if they can't be substantiated anyway, there's still nothing in the file.

A unit looking to move to paperless needs to push members to be doing this, and frankly this is what Personnel Officers (or whoever is OPR)  should
be doing during meetings.



Майор Хаткевич

Just checked, and my account says "Your membership has expired. However, you are not eligible to renew on-line. Please call Membership Services toll free at (877)227-9142 for further information and assistance."

I contemplated what to do once I resigned my command and Patron-ed myself. Gave it a good 5 months or so.

In the end, I chose to keep the good memories, forget (if not forgive) the bad, keep my friends close, and break all connection with the organization. Not quite 16 years, a good chunk of that as a cadet, but so it end.

The closet is a lot more airy, my time is more productive and stress free, and now I can simply move on.

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on January 14, 2019, 04:17:57 pm
Just checked, and my account says "Your membership has expired. However, you are not eligible to renew on-line. Please call Membership Services toll free at (877)227-9142 for further information and assistance."

I contemplated what to do once I resigned my command and Patron-ed myself. Gave it a good 5 months or so.

In the end, I chose to keep the good memories, forget (if not forgive) the bad, keep my friends close, and break all connection with the organization. Not quite 16 years, a good chunk of that as a cadet, but so it ends.

The closet is a lot more airy, my time is more productive and stress free, and now I can simply move on.

Simplex

There is life after CAP! I completely understand about the forget (if not forgive) the bad. Fortunately mine were few and far between, but it all still lingers.  Enjoy, thank you for the years you've put in, and best of luck in the future.

Chappie

Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on January 14, 2019, 04:17:57 pm
Just checked, and my account says "Your membership has expired. However, you are not eligible to renew on-line. Please call Membership Services toll free at (877)227-9142 for further information and assistance."

I contemplated what to do once I resigned my command and Patron-ed myself. Gave it a good 5 months or so.

In the end, I chose to keep the good memories, forget (if not forgive) the bad, keep my friends close, and break all connection with the organization. Not quite 16 years, a good chunk of that as a cadet, but so it end.

The closet is a lot more airy, my time is more productive and stress free, and now I can simply move on.


Same message in eServices -- same experience/feelings (only I chose not to go "patron".  Once decided to retire, no membership).
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

MSG Mac

I retired about 10 years ago, when I tried to rejoin, I was told that I needed my Wing Commander's permission to rejoin.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

Simplex

Did that come from NHQ or your Wing?  Can't say that I'd heard that before, good luck.