CAP Talk

General Discussion => Membership => Topic started by: Simplex on December 25, 2018, 02:41:24 AM

Title: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Simplex on December 25, 2018, 02:41:24 AM
Greetings and a Very Merry Christmas everyone. Recently I posted a note about my retirement and the condition of my retirement certificate, letter and copy of the form. Someone on this forum, a "Salty & Seasoned Contributor", contacted me and requested additional information and pictures which I provided. Imagine my suprise when a Fed Ex truck dropped off a box from NHQ this morning. Inside was a personal letter of apology from NHQ Personnel, a pristine retirement certificate in a really nice CAP presentation folder, a letter from NHQ/CC, with the correct date and name, etc., and a CAP 75th Anniversary Paper Weight in a presentation box.  Very, very nice! My retirement ID card arrived Dec 17th; my DOR was 1 Nov. I recall someone was retiring 31 Dec and wondered if it would go smoothly, I think it probably will. At least I hope so. Thanks to the Salty & Seasoned Contributor who took an interest in my message. And to all of you in the forum, I'd like to quote ".......Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus." Simplex, out here.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: OldGuy on December 25, 2018, 02:42:26 AM
Merry Christmas and a very happy (and retired) New Year!
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Eclipse on December 25, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/02k81wmS/miracle.gif)
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Spam on December 25, 2018, 07:11:59 AM
See, the "Airing of Grievances" actually worked!

Cheers
Spam
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: PHall on December 25, 2018, 05:39:15 PM
See, the "Airing of Grievances" actually worked!

Cheers
Spam

Why wouldn't it? >:D
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Simplex on December 25, 2018, 06:44:08 PM
Thanks everyone, best of luck to you all!
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: shuman14 on December 27, 2018, 02:50:13 PM
Simplex,

Thank you for your many years of Service to our great Nation. please enjoy your retirement.

Merry Christmas and a Blessed New Year.

JJC
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Simplex on December 28, 2018, 03:59:08 AM
Thank you, sir.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Chappie on January 02, 2019, 03:41:10 AM
My effective date was yesterday.   Submitted the paperwork at the end of October.   Haven’t heard or received anything from NHQ as of this date.  Maybe too soon.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: MSG Mac on January 02, 2019, 04:10:49 AM
Check E-services. NHQ was just about closed for Christmas and New Years
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: PHall on January 02, 2019, 04:42:43 AM
My effective date was yesterday.   Submitted the paperwork at the end of October.   Haven’t heard or received anything from NHQ as of this date.  Maybe too soon.

Or it's been denied! >:D     We're not going to let you go!
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Chappie on January 07, 2019, 06:34:31 PM
Checked e-Services and “log and behold”, access was denied since “My Membership has expired”.   Evidently, my retirement request has been approved though no official notification has been received.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: NIN on January 07, 2019, 08:05:21 PM
Checked e-Services and “log and behold”, access was denied since “My Membership has expired”.   Evidently, my retirement request has been approved though no official notification has been received.

Paul, keep me in the loop.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: PHall on January 07, 2019, 08:43:12 PM
Checked e-Services and “log and behold”, access was denied since “My Membership has expired”.   Evidently, my retirement request has been approved though no official notification has been received.

When was your membership supposed to expire?
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Chappie on January 08, 2019, 03:25:51 AM
Sure thing, Nin.  Phil...October of 2019.  I had renewed when I received my renewal notification...then after upping for another year, decided to retire earlier than originally planned. 
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: PHall on January 08, 2019, 07:06:46 AM
Well then it looks like you're Retired. Of course someone with National Access.... should be able to check your status and see if your package is on the way or not.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: NIN on January 08, 2019, 03:19:56 PM
Well then it looks like you're Retired. Of course someone with National Access.... should be able to check your status and see if your package is on the way or not.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/sjhsTOB3WVjJm/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: shuman14 on January 09, 2019, 04:30:51 PM
Cool Points for the SWEV:TESB GIF NIN!  ;D
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Lakeshore-CAP-Ret on January 09, 2019, 06:21:49 PM
See, the "Airing of Grievances" actually worked!

Cheers
Spam

Why wouldn't it? >:D



Oh, believe me, depending on where your serving "airing differences" can land you in real trouble! (Honestly, the only problem I've ever encountered with airing my differences came from senior members in command positions without management experience, i.e. dealing and leading people as a profession, etc)




What has helped me is by developing friendships within CAP those senior members with more experience than I had, that I could ask questions in a polite and professional manner.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 01:09:07 PM
For the CAP retirement benefits, must a senior member be in CAP for at least 20 years like the military?
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: SarDragon on January 10, 2019, 02:17:22 PM
For the CAP retirement benefits, must a senior member be in CAP for at least 20 years like the military?

Define "CAP retirement benefits".
Twenty years is the magic number to retire.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 03:03:12 PM
For the CAP retirement benefits, must a senior member be in CAP for at least 20 years like the military?

Define "CAP retirement benefits".
Twenty years is the magic number to retire.

I not benefit, just the minimum number of years to get the retirement packet with all of your CAP information such as your personnel record
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: SarDragon on January 10, 2019, 04:46:43 PM
That's the first I have ever heard of a "retirement packet". Where did that bit of info come from?

Sent using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 05:10:35 PM
That's the first I have ever heard of a "retirement packet". Where did that bit of info come from?

Sent using Tapatalk

It's been quite a ride. Like anything else in life, good times and bad times, but mostly good. Met lots of great people a few who'll be friends for life. This forum has been great, I've learned a lot. Thanks to those who participate especially those 'old salts' who chime in with a wealth of knowledge. You can imagine my excitement when my retirement packet arrived from NHQ.  I opened it and first to be pulled out was the very nice certificate, name, grade and dates of service all signed by the CAP Commander. Beside the fact that there was a crease running across the certificate at a 45 degree angle it was impressive. It looked liked it slipped off a desk and someone grabbed it and bent it in half was a minor thing. Next came the retirement letter, addressed to me with name rank and mailing address, but it was dated a year ago 31 Oct 2017 and the salutation began Dear Colonel (I'm/was a Major) Somebody Else, thank you for your years of service etc. Next the copy of my CAPF 2A all stamped with date/time received with the CAP Seal down in the lower left hand corner. But the stamp was over inked and dribbled across the bottom of the form. The wife said 'send it back', no I said,  I'll keep it as is. That about sums it up. So long everyone, keep your airspeed up. Simplex, out!

It came from here.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Simplex on January 10, 2019, 05:39:43 PM
Yes, 20 years is the minimum, however, it does not have to be all inclusive. There can be a break in service so as long as it adds up to 20...you're in!

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Simplex on January 10, 2019, 05:42:34 PM
PostScript: Cadet time does not count, just Senior time.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 06:33:39 PM
PostScript: Cadet time does not count, just Senior time.

Good to know. What usually comes in the "retirement packet"?
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Eclipse on January 10, 2019, 07:15:14 PM
Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 07:36:44 PM
Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.

But do you get your personnel file?
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: SarDragon on January 10, 2019, 07:47:21 PM
IIRC. the record remains the property of CAP, but you are free to make a copy before you retire. I maintain my own copy of my record, anyway.

Sent using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Eclipse on January 10, 2019, 07:47:38 PM
Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.

But do you get your personnel file?

No, as the unit is required to keep it for five years, however you ciould ask for a copy.

As more and more is moved into eServices and units are going paperless, in a lot of cases it's just .pdfs.

Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: TheSkyHornet on January 11, 2019, 05:12:34 PM
Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.

But do you get your personnel file?

Just as an FYI---You can ask for copies of your personnel record at any time, as a cadet or senior. So if there's ever anything you want to look at in your file, just ask the appropriate person at your unit. Be advised that they might not have the time to just drop whatever they're doing to go get it for you or supervise you while you take a look, as well as the time to copy it for you if it's paper. But you shouldn't be denied the ability to look at some point (i.e., "No, you can't see it" versus "Sure, but can we do it next week?").

Your record is not private from your eyes. It's your record.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: NIN on January 11, 2019, 07:18:01 PM
Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.

But do you get your personnel file?

No, as the unit is required to keep it for five years, however you ciould ask for a copy.

As more and more is moved into eServices and units are going paperless, in a lot of cases it's just .pdfs.

I'm not sure its precisely a requirement to maintain the record if the member has left through retirement or expiration AND requested it.

(think of a retirement like a transfer in terms of the unit's *need* to maintain the record. You don't keep a copy of a transferring member's file for five years, do you?)

If you have it, you're required to maintain it for x time.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Eclipse on January 11, 2019, 08:26:07 PM
So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: NIN on January 11, 2019, 09:10:50 PM
So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.

Well, one could assume they exist. :)

I think the idea is "member leaves or retires from CAP. Screen these files to inactive and &  hold for 5 years and then destroy."  IOW: no more than 5 years.  And thats a convenience for the member, not the unit.

If I was an inspector and came in and saw no inactive files, I'd be suspicious.



Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Spaceman3750 on January 11, 2019, 11:31:03 PM
So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.

Well, one could assume they exist. :)

I think the idea is "member leaves or retires from CAP. Screen these files to inactive and &  hold for 5 years and then destroy."  IOW: no more than 5 years.  And thats a convenience for the member, not the unit.

If I was an inspector and came in and saw no inactive files, I'd be suspicious.

A lot of SUI suffering could be alleviated with a widget to upload files to a member’s record in member search, much like the widget in ops qual. Think about it - thousands of volunteer hours (not to mention stress and frustration) eliminated with a couple hundred lines of code.

It’s 2019. Can we PLEASE do this?
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: shuman14 on January 11, 2019, 11:40:48 PM
So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.

Does CAP keep any type of historical record of it's membership indefinitely?

So if Little Johnny is doing historical research project for School on Great Uncle Stanley, who served in CAP during WWII and the Cold War, would CAP be able to provide any information about Stanley for the young Lad?
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Eclipse on January 12, 2019, 12:08:04 AM
So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.

Well, one could assume they exist. :)

I think the idea is "member leaves or retires from CAP. Screen these files to inactive and &  hold for 5 years and then destroy."  IOW: no more than 5 years.  And thats a convenience for the member, not the unit.

If I was an inspector and came in and saw no inactive files, I'd be suspicious.

A lot of SUI suffering could be alleviated with a widget to upload files to a member’s record in member search, much like the widget in ops qual. Think about it - thousands of volunteer hours (not to mention stress and frustration) eliminated with a couple hundred lines of code.

It’s 2019. Can we PLEASE do this?

There should no longer be a requirement to keep local files at the unit level, there is nothing
important that isn't tracked in eServices.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: SarDragon on January 12, 2019, 02:49:12 AM
Does CAP keep any type of historical record of it's its membership indefinitely?

So if Little Johnny is doing historical research project for School on Great Uncle Stanley, who served in CAP during WWII and the Cold War, would CAP be able to provide any information about Stanley for the young Lad?

Apparently, olde paper records do exist, but they are supposedly squirreled away somewhere, inaccessible to members. I would love to get loose with them for a week or two to do research.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Lord of the North on January 12, 2019, 08:13:12 AM
Posted by: Eclipse
« on: 11 Jan 2019 at 12:08:04 AM »

[/quote]
There should no longer be a requirement to keep local files at the unit level, there is nothing
important that isn't tracked in eServices.
[/quote]

I continue to hear that local personnel files are no longer needed, nor required.  Actually CAPR 39-2 (dated 9 January 2017) is clear on the requirement.  Please refer to paragraph 1.7 of that regulation as shown in the portions of that paragraph provided below:

“Active Records. The member’s unit of assignment maintains personnel records. Personnel files maintained locally may be traditional paper files or electronic files created at the unit.”

Later, in that paragraph; “At this time, the eServices online record cannot be used as the only personnel file since all information concerning the member is not currently tracked online.  Those items recorded in eServices are not required to be entered in the local personnel file. Any items not recorded in eServices or additional information pertaining to the member's service and performance that should be retained should be made a part of the local personnel records.”
Currently there is no way to award Activity and Service ribbons (see paragraph 19 of CAPR 39-3) in e-services.  You MAY enter previously awarded Activity and Service ribbons into e-services AFTER they have been approved in accordance with CAPR 39-3, but the local personnel file should have the approved award (usually a CAPF 2a) documentation for the individual(s) who were recipients of the award.  The following information was provided by NHQ when the ability to enter activity and service ribbons into eServices was implemented”

“Members may now upload previously approved activity and service ribbons through the “My Account” section of eServices.  Simply click on the “Service Ribbons” tab on the left side of the screen to add previously authorized ribbons. The member can then enter the date and the ribbon earned.  Ribbon submissions will be sent to the unit commander for validation prior to displaying in the individual’s member record.  Validation authority is also available to the Deputy Commander and Chief of Staff.
The ability to award new activity and service ribbons is not a part of this module but is in the plan for future development.”

 
To me, after review of the above information a couple of points are clear.
1.   Local personnel files ARE required by regulation (CAPR 39-2, para 1.7).
2.   The eServices online record cannot be used as the only personnel file since all information concerning the member is not currently tracked online.
3.   The local personnel files may be either paper or electronic files.
4.   The entry of the award of Activity and Service ribbons into eServices can be accomplished ONLY AFTER the award(s) have been approved in accordance
        with CAPR 39-3, which was stated in the implementation instructed provided when the ability was created in eServices.
Title: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Spaceman3750 on January 12, 2019, 07:37:03 PM

To me, after review of the above information a couple of points are clear.
1.Local personnel files ARE required by regulation (CAPR 39-2, para 1.7).
2.The eServices online record cannot be used as the only personnel file since all information concerning the member is not currently tracked online.
3.The local personnel files may be either paper or electronic files.
4.The entry of the award of Activity and Service ribbons into eServices can be accomplished ONLY AFTER the award(s) have been approved in accordance
        with CAPR 39-3, which was stated in the implementation instructed provided when the ability was created in eServices.

He wasn’t saying they’re not currently required, he’s saying they shouldn’t be required.

I can see a need to keep some extra records - PAs for finds, etc. but that shouldn’t require the unit to have a huge regulatory burden. Just upload the files to eServices.

On the point of service and activity ribbons, that’s another great place to streamline. You went to the activity, it gets listed in eServices, you wear the ribbon. Why mess around with more paperwork than there needs to be?

We talk a lot about how valuable our volunteers are, and yet we continue to waste their time on personnel files, record retention, and paperwork for encampment ribbons when the tools to manage all of this centrally and automatically have existed for 20 years everywhere but our organization.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Eclipse on January 12, 2019, 07:59:15 PM
^ Yep.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: TheSkyHornet on January 12, 2019, 09:51:04 PM

On the point of service and activity ribbons, that’s another great place to streamline. You went to the activity, it gets listed in eServices, you wear the ribbon. Why mess around with more paperwork than there needs to be?

We talk a lot about how valuable our volunteers are, and yet we continue to waste their time on personnel files, record retention, and paperwork for encampment ribbons when the tools to manage all of this centrally and automatically have existed for 20 years everywhere but our organization.

This.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: NIN on January 13, 2019, 12:40:02 AM
Not to mention a lot of storage.

Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Eclipse on January 13, 2019, 01:46:03 AM
On the point of service and activity ribbons, that’s another great place to streamline. You went to the activity, it gets listed in eServices, you wear the ribbon. Why mess around with more paperwork than there needs to be?

Encampment and NCSA ribbons are probably the perfect example of this.

When the CC clicks "submit", credit posts immediately.  Member wears it or adds an attachment.

Yet CC's all over the place still want to do a 2a.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: PHall on January 13, 2019, 02:32:02 AM
On the point of service and activity ribbons, that’s another great place to streamline. You went to the activity, it gets listed in eServices, you wear the ribbon. Why mess around with more paperwork than there needs to be?

Encampment and NCSA ribbons are probably the perfect example of this.

When the CC clicks "submit", credit posts immediately.  Member wears it or adds an attachment.

Yet CC's all over the place still want to do a 2a.

Because they've been told over and over that you must have a "source document" for all awards and decorations.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: RiverAux on January 13, 2019, 12:14:10 PM
Personnel files stores electronically at the unit level would scare me to death without some very specific requirements for use of that system.  For example, requiring that multiple people have full access at all times rather than it being at the CC's house on his 15 year old computer. 
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Eclipse on January 13, 2019, 03:00:58 PM
Anywhere but the cloud with Wing having control should be verboten.

But really? It doesn't matter. Most members never look at them, and if every beat up plastic file carrier at every unit disappeared right now, it would have little effect on anything except shortening some SUIs.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: RiverAux on January 14, 2019, 02:11:30 AM
Oh, I've never thought that the ribbons, etc. are really all that motivating to CAP members, but I think most would be quite upset if their records just wen poof.. 
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Eclipse on January 14, 2019, 02:41:28 AM
But that's just it - they won't any more.

New stuff is in there, historic stuff should be, and if it's not it's on the member.

Enter it, scan it /  shred it / give to member, move on.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Devil Doc on January 14, 2019, 03:29:07 AM
Not sure about yall, but out f my 10 CAP Ribbons, only 4 are shown in EServices. I have some that I submitted myself, but out of the ones that NHQ has submitted.... it only shows 4. So I think there still needs to be a paper record since eServices is not perfect.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Eclipse on January 14, 2019, 05:08:36 AM
You need to go in and enter historical awards.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: TheSkyHornet on January 14, 2019, 03:25:35 PM
You need to go in and enter historical awards.

So...for historical awards, can those only be entered by the member (not on their behalf)?

If that's the case, which I thought it was, that seems to be a pain---as some people are so horrible at tracking their own items, and some units were historically bad at tracking for them through personnel record-keeping.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Eclipse on January 14, 2019, 03:30:10 PM
You need to go in and enter historical awards.

So...for historical awards, can those only be entered by the member (not on their behalf)?

If that's the case, which I thought it was, that seems to be a pain---as some people are so horrible at tracking their own items, and some units were historically bad at tracking for them through personnel record-keeping.

That's my understanding last time I looked into it.  Member enters and provides substantiation, higher HQ approves.
In some cases all they had was the pic of a cert, or even them getting the award in a shake and take.

No argument about historically poor record keeping, but these days there no excuse, and if it's not important enough to
the member to do it, then it's not important enough for anyone else to care, either.

The average member is going to have a handfull of things to enter, and some might not ever be provable,
but some is better then none, and if they can't be substantiated anyway, there's still nothing in the file.

A unit looking to move to paperless needs to push members to be doing this, and frankly this is what Personnel Officers (or whoever is OPR)  should
be doing during meetings.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on January 14, 2019, 04:17:57 PM
Just checked, and my account says "Your membership has expired. However, you are not eligible to renew on-line. Please call Membership Services toll free at (877)227-9142 for further information and assistance."

I contemplated what to do once I resigned my command and Patron-ed myself. Gave it a good 5 months or so.

In the end, I chose to keep the good memories, forget (if not forgive) the bad, keep my friends close, and break all connection with the organization. Not quite 16 years, a good chunk of that as a cadet, but so it end.

The closet is a lot more airy, my time is more productive and stress free, and now I can simply move on.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on January 14, 2019, 04:18:35 PM
Just checked, and my account says "Your membership has expired. However, you are not eligible to renew on-line. Please call Membership Services toll free at (877)227-9142 for further information and assistance."

I contemplated what to do once I resigned my command and Patron-ed myself. Gave it a good 5 months or so.

In the end, I chose to keep the good memories, forget (if not forgive) the bad, keep my friends close, and break all connection with the organization. Not quite 16 years, a good chunk of that as a cadet, but so it ends.

The closet is a lot more airy, my time is more productive and stress free, and now I can simply move on.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Simplex on January 14, 2019, 10:22:47 PM
There is life after CAP! I completely understand about the forget (if not forgive) the bad. Fortunately mine were few and far between, but it all still lingers.  Enjoy, thank you for the years you've put in, and best of luck in the future.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Chappie on January 15, 2019, 11:05:42 PM
Just checked, and my account says "Your membership has expired. However, you are not eligible to renew on-line. Please call Membership Services toll free at (877)227-9142 for further information and assistance."

I contemplated what to do once I resigned my command and Patron-ed myself. Gave it a good 5 months or so.

In the end, I chose to keep the good memories, forget (if not forgive) the bad, keep my friends close, and break all connection with the organization. Not quite 16 years, a good chunk of that as a cadet, but so it end.

The closet is a lot more airy, my time is more productive and stress free, and now I can simply move on.

Same message in eServices — same experience/feelings (only I chose not to go “patron”.  Once decided to retire, no membership).
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: MSG Mac on January 16, 2019, 04:15:50 AM
I retired about 10 years ago, when I tried to rejoin, I was told that I needed my Wing Commander's permission to rejoin.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Simplex on January 16, 2019, 04:56:18 AM
Did that come from NHQ or your Wing?  Can't say that I'd heard that before, good luck.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: SarDragon on January 16, 2019, 05:34:38 AM
From CAPR 39-2:
Retired members may reapply for active membership with the approval of the National Commander.
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Eclipse on January 16, 2019, 05:35:09 AM
I retired about 10 years ago, when I tried to rejoin, I was told that I needed my Wing Commander's permission to rejoin.

Actually you need the National CC's approval.
CAPR 39-2, Page 20
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/R039_002_A74FDA9552C2D.pdf
"4.3.2. Return to Active Status. Retired members may reapply for active membership with the
approval of the National Commander.
The grade upon rejoining as an active member is the same
grade held while in retirement status. Complete CAPF 12 and fingerprint card (FD Form 258).
The application will be annotated across the top "RETIRED MEMBER RETURNING TO ACTIVE
STATUS”. Upon approval by the unit commander, the application and fingerprint card are
submitted, along with ACTIVE member dues, to National Headquarters/DPM. National
Headquarters will obtain the National Commander’s approval prior to processing. In order to
reinstate the member at the last grade held as an active member, a copy of the CAPF 2A placing
the member in retired status (or a copy of the retirement certificate) will be attached to the CAPF
12 and forwarded to National Headquarters"


Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Lord of the North on January 16, 2019, 06:28:52 AM
From CAPR 39-2
4.3.2. Return to Active Status.  Retired members may reapply for active membership with the approval of the National Commander.  The grade upon rejoining as an active member is the same grade held while in retirement status.  Complete CAPF 12 and fingerprint card (FD Form 258).  The application will be annotated across the top "RETIRED MEMBER RETURNING TO ACTIVE STATUS”.  Upon approval by the unit commander, the application and fingerprint card are submitted, along with ACTIVE member dues, to National Headquarters/DPM.  National Headquarters will obtain the National Commander’s approval prior to processing. 
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on January 16, 2019, 10:06:40 PM
From CAPR 39-2
4.3.2. Return to Active Status.  Retired members may reapply for active membership with the approval of the National Commander.  The grade upon rejoining as an active member is the same grade held while in retirement status.  Complete CAPF 12 and fingerprint card (FD Form 258).  The application will be annotated across the top "RETIRED MEMBER RETURNING TO ACTIVE STATUS”.  Upon approval by the unit commander, the application and fingerprint card are submitted, along with ACTIVE member dues, to National Headquarters/DPM.  National Headquarters will obtain the National Commander’s approval prior to processing.

And...more nonsense is revealed.

The applicant for reinstatement must supply proof of retirement in order for CAP to believe that s/he is retired.

Doesn’t NHQ already know that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: NIN on January 16, 2019, 10:58:10 PM
From CAPR 39-2
4.3.2. Return to Active Status.  Retired members may reapply for active membership with the approval of the National Commander.  The grade upon rejoining as an active member is the same grade held while in retirement status.  Complete CAPF 12 and fingerprint card (FD Form 258).  The application will be annotated across the top "RETIRED MEMBER RETURNING TO ACTIVE STATUS”.  Upon approval by the unit commander, the application and fingerprint card are submitted, along with ACTIVE member dues, to National Headquarters/DPM.  National Headquarters will obtain the National Commander’s approval prior to processing.

And...more nonsense is revealed.

The applicant for reinstatement must supply proof of retirement in order for CAP to believe that s/he is retired.

Doesn’t NHQ already know that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For members who have retired since the advent of electronic records, yes, they have that.

It is entirely possible however that someone could return to active status who retired prior to that level of record-keeping. In that case, chances are no record exists of that member's grade at retirement.

BTW, you can thank General Carr for signing off on my return. Muuhahaha! :)
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Chappie on January 19, 2019, 07:18:30 PM
Well...it is “official”.  I received the signed Form 2A, a letter from Gen Smith, and a “suitable for framing” Certificate of Retirement in this morning’s mail. 
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: NIN on January 19, 2019, 07:50:38 PM
Well...it is “official”.  I received the signed Form 2A, a letter from Gen Smith, and a “suitable for framing” Certificate of Retirement in this morning’s mail.

It had your name on it, right?

 8)
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Chappie on January 20, 2019, 12:18:30 AM
That it did and spelled correctly :)
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: Simplex on January 25, 2019, 04:03:00 PM
Congrats Chappie, glad everything worked out well for you. Hope you'll continue to hang out on CapTalk we can all benefit from your wit and wisdom. Simplex, out!
Title: Re: 20 and out: Part Deux
Post by: TheSkyHornet on January 25, 2019, 06:00:44 PM
From CAPR 39-2
4.3.2. Return to Active Status.  Retired members may reapply for active membership with the approval of the National Commander.  The grade upon rejoining as an active member is the same grade held while in retirement status.  Complete CAPF 12 and fingerprint card (FD Form 258).  The application will be annotated across the top "RETIRED MEMBER RETURNING TO ACTIVE STATUS”.  Upon approval by the unit commander, the application and fingerprint card are submitted, along with ACTIVE member dues, to National Headquarters/DPM.  National Headquarters will obtain the National Commander’s approval prior to processing.

And...more nonsense is revealed.

The applicant for reinstatement must supply proof of retirement in order for CAP to believe that s/he is retired.

Doesn’t NHQ already know that?


I think the bigger question is:
"Why does this need National Commander approval?"

The National Commander doesn't approve applications at the squadron level... I mean, this seems like administrative/bureaucratic horse hockey.