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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: USAF appears to be quietly transitioning to OCP stateside...
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Author Topic: USAF appears to be quietly transitioning to OCP stateside...  (Read 24032 times)
hamburgee
Member

Posts: 76

« Reply #220 on: May 16, 2018, 12:58:38 PM »

The OCP style Blue are already available through Tru-Spec. Their Ripstop is nice and thin for us in the south. I have a pair of the woodland TRU (TACTICAL RESPONSE UNIFORM®) pants and they are nice in the summer. They breath well. But they are expensive.

I can't find the OCP style blue uniform, I'm interested in seeing it.  No doubt the pants are also made in some shade of grey and we could get out in front of this change and make those the official tac pants for the CWU and actually have a standard.
I can't find it either. Tru-Spec's TRU is close, but it's not quite there. It's like the old style ACU with velcro flaps on the shoulder pocket instead of zippers, mandarin collar, and no velcro for nametapes & rank.
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J2H
Forum Regular

Posts: 193
Unit: MER-MD-031

« Reply #221 on: May 16, 2018, 03:22:14 PM »

BDU surplus is still rampant on Ebay, some of it is pricey, but most can be had on the cheap!
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SSgt Jeffrey Hughes, Squadron NCO
Glenn L. Martin Composite Squadron MD-031
#217169
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,518
Unit: Classified

« Reply #222 on: May 16, 2018, 04:23:24 PM »

No desire to wear it at all.  Plus not fiscally smart...   Talking to a friend of mine I may get a few pairs of pants for task wear but that's about it.....

Well there in lays the problem... It's going to become fiscally smart in a hurry when ABU supplies dry up like the BDU did, but we're looking at ABU's being destroyed instead of going to surplus for CAP and no other branches using the uniform... It's like a hurricane on the horizon.

I'm sure NHQ understands that and is looking at what we need to do to get out in front of it.

You do realize that statement was made in the CAP capacity.   Even if CAP chooses to pursue OCPs the cost alone is not something i would be wanting to pursue.  We don't need OCPs anytime soon because the AF is going to them.
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Full time cadet
Member

Posts: 62

« Reply #223 on: May 16, 2018, 09:31:12 PM »

1. CAP has no reason to get OCPs. Rest alone transitioning to ABUs. I really don't see the point of how getting ABUs would sustain our mission compared to BDUs.
Members of CAP come from a really diverse level. OCPs can be a significant expense for members. We are not fully funded for these expenses nor we get a stipend compared to all service members.



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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,299
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #224 on: May 16, 2018, 10:10:25 PM »

1. CAP has no reason to get OCPs. Rest alone transitioning to ABUs. I really don't see the point of how getting ABUs would sustain our mission compared to BDUs.
Members of CAP come from a really diverse level. OCPs can be a significant expense for members. We are not fully funded for these expenses nor we get a stipend compared to all service members.
It's a uniform. We've worn so many different uniforms over the years that I've lost count. Moving forward, we will wear many more.

If you are currently a cadet, you won't be by the time we might be transitioning to OCPs. If you become an SM, you can wear the less expensive BBDUs, and you're all set.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 889

« Reply #225 on: May 16, 2018, 10:10:59 PM »

1. CAP has no reason to get OCPs. Rest alone transitioning to ABUs. I really don't see the point of how getting ABUs would sustain our mission compared to BDUs.
Members of CAP come from a really diverse level. OCPs can be a significant expense for members. We are not fully funded for these expenses nor we get a stipend compared to all service members.

You are absolutely correct.  I tried to warn people that ABUs were uncomfortable, hard to find used (even near an AF base), and likely going away soon.  Now here we are.  OCP is not an option for CAP now and it should not be.  One good option is to simply extend the wear date for the BDU.  It is still pretty easy to find from multiple sources and even in many surplus stores.  ABUs will quickly disappear over the next couple of years since nobody but the USAF and CAP ever wore them.
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Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 663

« Reply #226 on: May 16, 2018, 11:04:36 PM »

Won't the Army have to give permission to the Air Force to give us permission to wear this new uniform?

I mean the bureaucracy on that deal sounds pretty sweet.
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 889

« Reply #227 on: May 17, 2018, 09:58:53 AM »

Won't the Army have to give permission to the Air Force to give us permission to wear this new uniform?

I mean the bureaucracy on that deal sounds pretty sweet.

Maybe.  The BDU was an Army uniform that was eventually rolled out to all branches. Congress wants the services to get away from the proprietary (and expensive) uniform procurement and back to a more single-source model.  So I don't think the Army will have a say in when or if CAP gets the OCP.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,062

« Reply #228 on: May 17, 2018, 01:01:21 PM »

Won't the Army have to give permission to the Air Force to give us permission to wear this new uniform?

I mean the bureaucracy on that deal sounds pretty sweet.

Maybe.  The BDU was an Army uniform that was eventually rolled out to all branches. Congress wants the services to get away from the proprietary (and expensive) uniform procurement and back to a more single-source model.  So I don't think the Army will have a say in when or if CAP gets the OCP.

Nope, the Army did not "trademark" the OCP like the Marines did with their MARPAT uniform.
The Air Force going to the OCP is just part of the One Uniform for them All thing.
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LATORRECA
Seasoned Member

Posts: 216

« Reply #229 on: May 17, 2018, 01:02:10 PM »

1. CAP has no reason to get OCPs. Rest alone transitioning to ABUs. I really don't see the point of how getting ABUs would sustain our mission compared to BDUs.
Members of CAP come from a really diverse level. OCPs can be a significant expense for members. We are not fully funded for these expenses nor we get a stipend compared to all service members.

You are absolutely correct.  I tried to warn people that ABUs were uncomfortable, hard to find used (even near an AF base), and likely going away soon.  Now here we are.  OCP is not an option for CAP now and it should not be.  One good option is to simply extend the wear date for the BDU.  It is still pretty easy to find from multiple sources and even in many surplus stores.  ABUs will quickly disappear over the next couple of years since nobody but the USAF and CAP ever wore them.

Funny


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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CAPLTC
Forum Regular

Posts: 130
Unit: MER

« Reply #230 on: May 20, 2018, 12:34:11 PM »

1. CAP has no reason to get OCPs. Rest alone transitioning to ABUs. I really don't see the point of how getting ABUs would sustain our mission compared to BDUs.
Members of CAP come from a really diverse level. OCPs can be a significant expense for members. We are not fully funded for these expenses nor we get a stipend compared to all service members.

And yet CAP will.
Soon.
Envision yourself in OCP.
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"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,299
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #231 on: May 20, 2018, 03:58:37 PM »

Define soon. IMHO, no current cadets will wear OCP as a cadet.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,464

« Reply #232 on: May 20, 2018, 04:10:51 PM »

Define soon. IMHO, no current cadets will wear OCP as a cadet.

+1 Not going to happen - the ABU is still 3+ years from sundown, and isn't even currently
properly authorized for wear, let alone consideration of anything "new" before the parent service
has gotten theirs changed over.

I would guess Gen Phelka's successor as Nat CC will be the first to consider a change.
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SAREXinNY
Forum Regular

Posts: 137
Unit: NER-NY

« Reply #233 on: May 20, 2018, 10:11:41 PM »

First, I've said it before, but CAP needs an MOU with USAF regarding uniform issues. Instead of reinventing the wheel every time big blue changes their threads, we transition with them (+ a year or two added on for phasing out the older uniform). Many people say "It can't be done because...(blah blah blah)" but yes, yes it can. But that would cut way down on red tape, bureaucracy, and uncertainty...you know, the things CAP are best known for.

Second, (and I know this will never happen...but) uniform costs should be covered for all members in good standing. The curry award for cadets is a very good start, but SM's should have their costs reimbursed or have uniforms directly issued. If we really provide such an amazing service, benefit, and cost-savings to the federal government...why don't they invest more in us? (Rhetorical question)

Just my two cents.
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Toad1168
Forum Regular

Posts: 153
Unit: Missouri

« Reply #234 on: May 21, 2018, 10:49:05 AM »

First, I've said it before, but CAP needs an MOU with USAF regarding uniform issues. Instead of reinventing the wheel every time big blue changes their threads, we transition with them (+ a year or two added on for phasing out the older uniform). Many people say "It can't be done because...(blah blah blah)" but yes, yes it can. But that would cut way down on red tape, bureaucracy, and uncertainty...you know, the things CAP are best known for.

Second, (and I know this will never happen...but) uniform costs should be covered for all members in good standing. The curry award for cadets is a very good start, but SM's should have their costs reimbursed or have uniforms directly issued. If we really provide such an amazing service, benefit, and cost-savings to the federal government...why don't they invest more in us? (Rhetorical question)

Just my two cents.

The Curry blues program costs in excess of $600k per year, and that is a one and done expense for new cadets.  Now imagine doing that for all the seniors.  Maybe, if there was a time in service requirement added for seniors that in some way required them to be productive members.  But I don't see that ever happening. and the masses would revolt.
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Toad
Ned
Resident Philosopher

Posts: 2,168

« Reply #235 on: May 21, 2018, 12:15:07 PM »


Second, (and I know this will never happen...but) uniform costs should be covered for all members in good standing.

Easily done if the membership wouldn't mind having their dues more than tripled.

Somehow I think there may be some resistance to that idea.

Neither is there any suggestion that the Appropriations Fairy seems likely to drop an extra $10 million or so to equip every senior with a AF-style or corporate uniform or two every 4-5 years.  And that's just the seniors.  And if I could talk Congress and our colleagues in the Air Force out of an extra $10,000,000 a year, I would probably want to spend that on things like training for seniors and cadets (imagine if CLC/RSC/ NSC were free, including transportation), more radios and corporate vehicles to help save lives and move members around, and maybe even a full time employee or two in each wing to help with the crushing administrative burden.  It's mostly just a resource priority allocation issue.

Seriously, I did a little over 20 years wearing Army uniforms.  And because I was an officer, my Uncle Sam expected me to buy almost all of them with my own money.  Why should CAP officers be different?

Ned Lee
Former Army Guy

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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,464

« Reply #236 on: May 21, 2018, 12:54:13 PM »

Why should CAP officers be different?

Because there are volunteers giving their time and treasure when most other people are "off"?

Because when they show up to a mission, military base for encampment, or similar situation
almost everyone else in the room is getting paid, and in many cases a uniform allowance and a pension?

Because they give up their vacations, time with their families, and often billable hours in their "real" jobs to serve their country?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 01:11:02 PM by Eclipse » Logged


Schrödinger's hat
Member

Posts: 94
Unit: PCR-CA-080

« Reply #237 on: May 21, 2018, 01:38:28 PM »

First, I've said it before, but CAP needs an MOU with USAF regarding uniform issues. Instead of reinventing the wheel every time big blue changes their threads, we transition with them (+ a year or two added on for phasing out the older uniform). Many people say "It can't be done because...(blah blah blah)" but yes, yes it can. But that would cut way down on red tape, bureaucracy, and uncertainty...you know, the things CAP are best known for.

Second, (and I know this will never happen...but) uniform costs should be covered for all members in good standing. The curry award for cadets is a very good start, but SM's should have their costs reimbursed or have uniforms directly issued. If we really provide such an amazing service, benefit, and cost-savings to the federal government...why don't they invest more in us? (Rhetorical question)

Just my two cents.

As someone who wears both hats, I can tell you the USCG normally supports its members far better than CAP - but not in this case.

A full set of USCG uniforms (not counting the whites or mess dress, mind you) costs $740.  And thats according to the AUX national HR. The few "corporate" uniforms are almost never seen, and obsolete uniforms disappear quickly despite having an "as long as they are serviceable" rule.  They don't show up in thrift stores, surplus or even on Ebay.

Compare this to CAP - where the minimum basic corporate uniform can be had for  about $40.
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Dwight J. Dutton, CPT AUS (RET)
CAPT CAP, Mitchell 1975 (before numbers)
Ned
Resident Philosopher

Posts: 2,168

« Reply #238 on: May 21, 2018, 01:48:54 PM »

Because there are volunteers giving their time and treasure when most other people are "off"?

Because when they show up to a mission, military base for encampment, or similar situation
almost everyone else in the room is getting paid, and in many cases a uniform allowance and a pension?

Because they give up their vacations, time with their families, and often billable hours in their "real" jobs to serve their country?

Indeed.  Kinda like Scout leaders, reserve cops, volunteer firefighters, USCGA folks, and countless others who generously and courageously give of their time and effort to serve their communities.  And all of whom accepted these jobs with the full knowledge and expectation of the conditions of the position.  And thank God for them.

I'm sure they would all like free uniforms as well.  And undoubtedly deserve them as much or more than volunteer CAP officers.

 

(And Bob, if you honestly don't think military officers work uncountable hours "off the clock" and away from their families, vacations, and billable hours, that suggests that you may not appreciate the responsibilities and realities of military service.)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 01:55:03 PM by Ned » Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,464

« Reply #239 on: May 21, 2018, 01:54:52 PM »

(And Bob, if you honestly don't think military officers work uncountable hours "off the clock" and away from their families, vacations, and billable hours, that suggests that you may not appreciate the responsibilities and realities of military service.)

That's very nice, everybody works for free sometimes.  CAP people do it >all the time<, though I don't see how the
comparison is apt or relevent.

As much or more?  Very nice.

Fair enough, NHQ doesn't have the funding to provide uniforms to seniors (or even most cadets for that matter), so
alleviate the issues in the other direction by reducing the variety of the multiforms to those that fulfill a mission mandate instead of affectation.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 01:58:49 PM by Eclipse » Logged


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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: USAF appears to be quietly transitioning to OCP stateside...
 


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