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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: USAF appears to be quietly transitioning to OCP stateside...
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Author Topic: USAF appears to be quietly transitioning to OCP stateside...  (Read 30222 times)
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,190

« Reply #280 on: June 01, 2018, 04:11:51 PM »

To some of the points above---

A lot of this goes to show the culture of the unit, or perhaps even within that Wing.

CAP somewhat falters on the mandatory purchase uniform as service dress because the culture at the home unit, and general operational environment, may not regularly utilize that uniform.

Culture? No, it's simply not doing what you're supposed to be doing. In all honesty, the basic uniform is just that because the program, CP and PD, is conducted at the unit level for the most part. Those programs do not require any other garment, outside of PT gear. Want to get into the other aspects, the nonrequired aspects, of CAP? Expect to provide the equipment and unis. The basic uniform is required for all members for a reason.

If all a unit does is provide PD, there is no operational mission. PD is a form of training, not a CAP mission in itself. P

The Cadet Program, in theory, could get by on just a Blues uniform, as there is no PT uniform in CAP; it's civilian wear. All elements of the Cadet Program from R60-1 can be accomplished in Class Bs. You could also run a unit that never wears Class Bs. It's not a requirement of cadets to wear them; only to own them.

But the Emergency Services mission is more often than not conducted using a variety of field uniforms, whether fatigues or a flight suit. The CAP missions are predominately hands-on in the AO and do not coincide with sitting at a desk during the majority of training and/or execution.

Depending on your role in CAP, you can get by through the entirety of your time in, say 20 years, without ever needing to wear Blues. On the converse, you can get by without ever needing to wear a utility/working uniform. It really depends on what you have volunteered to do and take part in. Why would someone who does nothing but ground team training, SAREXs, and live SAR missions be required to purchase a dress uniform if they never set foot in a formal garrison ceremony?

The minimum uniform, per CAPM 39-1, doesn't define what your role is, nor indicate that you'll actually need to wear it. That's something that's going to be handled at the local echelon depending on how that unit conducts itself and the activities of its members.

To that point, how many members are there that only own the polo shirt and never wear anything else? I'd fathom a lot exist, because it works for them. And they can't be convinced to go buy a set of Blues. Not to mention that a number of people mistakenly equate Blues to the polo shirt, when the polo combination is, in practicality, an equivalent for a utility uniform from Table 1-1 (as previously pointed out).

What uniform you own is really a non-issue.
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LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,807
Unit: Earth

« Reply #281 on: June 01, 2018, 04:44:19 PM »

And the required uniform - even with all insignia factored in - is cheaper than the polo shirt sold by Vanguard.

No it is not.

Going solely with Vanguard prices:

The Vanguard Golf Shirt with Screened Seal is $26.95

The Aviator Shirt alone costs $28.35
The Aviator Shirt with name plate as a SM is $40.55
The Aviator Shirt with nameplate as a Officer is $41.95
The Aviator Shirt with nameplate as an NCO will cost between:  $43.80 to $51.45

So the polo is actually $13.60 to $24.50 below the cost of the aviator shirt with required insignia.

Now if you go with the Polo Cotton with embroidered seal and no name, then the cost of the shirt is $37.10, which still puts you between $3.45 and $14.35 below the cost of the aviator shirt. 

If you go with the Cotton with name, Tactical Golf with no name, or Tactical Golf with name, then you are above the cost. 

Do not really care about the debate, but did want to correct this.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,165

« Reply #282 on: June 01, 2018, 05:07:36 PM »

I'm going to try and stop putting my opinion on these uniform threads, as everyone knows my position anyway. But its still amusing to read them. I've only been in CAP 2 1/2 years.  Its funny as heck to think about how many decades these same debates have been rehashed over and over. On a daily basis for all that time I guess! Its funny reading while eating popcorn with a RC Cola. Some of you folks just make my day.  :)
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,870
Unit: of issue

« Reply #283 on: June 01, 2018, 05:13:11 PM »

I hate to whip out the ol' Dwight Schrute



Apples to apples comparison.

Beets, Bears, Battlestar Galactica.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,807
Unit: Earth

« Reply #284 on: June 01, 2018, 05:19:44 PM »

I hate to whip out the ol' Dwight Schrute

Apples to apples comparison.

Beets, Bears, Battlestar Galactica.

Read my post again.  Your comparison is with the Tactical Golf Shirt, which I already stated at the bottom.  Also, your comparison is with an external source, which I already stated using Vanguard solely. 

Also, you are using tactical pants and rigger belt with your polo shirt.  I use the same grey dress pants, black belt, black socks, and black shoes with the polo and the white shirt.  So these are non-factors, if you are going strictly on cost--assuming apple-to-apple comparison.  Those items listed on your spread are really excess or accessory items and are not required.  Therefore, yes, apple to orange comparison for your spreadsheet. 

Even if you get the Aviator shirt from Amazon (and assuming you are a Prime member), the screen-printed Golf shirt is still cheaper than the Aviator Shirt with required attachments. 
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,071
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #285 on: June 01, 2018, 07:41:45 PM »

I hate to whip out the ol' Dwight Schrute

Apples to apples comparison.

Beets, Bears, Battlestar Galactica.

I would like us to adopt the Colonial jacket, which is the most awesome flight jacket I've ever seen. It would even go well with OCP (staying with the thread, yo)!

Since the majority of CAP uniform discussions are completely ungrounded in reality... I figure "why not dream"?


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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,614

« Reply #286 on: June 01, 2018, 07:55:18 PM »

Corporate variant shown here...

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LATORRECA
Seasoned Member

Posts: 219

« Reply #287 on: June 02, 2018, 04:10:05 PM »

New corporate flight suit and walking GPS.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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chuckmilam
Member

Posts: 99
Unit: GLR-KY-216

« Reply #288 on: June 04, 2018, 09:11:14 AM »

Is that BSG colonial jacket suede or terry?  Either would be full of 1970s goodness.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,190

« Reply #289 on: June 04, 2018, 10:44:37 AM »

To my previous point, the aviator shirt and polo shirt combination are not equivalents.

Let's re-read CAPM 39-1, folks. The polo is a working uniform, not a service uniform. If you're instructed to wear Class Bs, and you want to wear the CAP equivalent, you should not be in the polo shirt.

Your financial comparison should be the polo and grey slacks (or tactical pants) against camo.
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vorteks
Seasoned Member

Posts: 241

« Reply #290 on: June 04, 2018, 11:11:09 AM »

To my previous point, the aviator shirt and polo shirt combination are not equivalents.

Let's re-read CAPM 39-1, folks. The polo is a working uniform, not a service uniform. If you're instructed to wear Class Bs, and you want to wear the CAP equivalent, you should not be in the polo shirt.

Your financial comparison should be the polo and grey slacks (or tactical pants) against camo.

This must be a typo in 39-1:

"The Corporate Working
Uniform may be worn in a
flying, field or mission
setting when the USAF‐style
Class B or Corporate Aviator
Shirt Uniform would be
worn
."
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Dwight Dutton
Forum Regular

Posts: 100
Unit: PCR-CA-080

« Reply #291 on: June 04, 2018, 03:12:47 PM »

And the required uniform - even with all insignia factored in - is cheaper than the polo shirt sold by Vanguard.

No it is not.

Going solely with Vanguard prices:

The Vanguard Golf Shirt with Screened Seal is $26.95

The Aviator Shirt alone costs $28.35
The Aviator Shirt with name plate as a SM is $40.55
The Aviator Shirt with nameplate as a Officer is $41.95
The Aviator Shirt with nameplate as an NCO will cost between:  $43.80 to $51.45

So the polo is actually $13.60 to $24.50 below the cost of the aviator shirt with required insignia.

Now if you go with the Polo Cotton with embroidered seal and no name, then the cost of the shirt is $37.10, which still puts you between $3.45 and $14.35 below the cost of the aviator shirt. 

If you go with the Cotton with name, Tactical Golf with no name, or Tactical Golf with name, then you are above the cost. 

Do not really care about the debate, but did want to correct this.
The aviator shirt is $14 http://www.uniformswarehouse.com/shirts/uniform-shirts/emt-white-shirts.html
Buy the rank from Vanguard and now you are at $24.
Add the nameplate and you are at $28

Which is about $9 less than the embroidered shirt.  Buying insignia to pin on the shirt costs less than having it embroidered on that shirt as well.

However this is indeed $1 more than the screened seal polo shirt if you want to be picky
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 03:24:18 PM by Schrödinger's hat » Logged
Dwight J. Dutton, CPT AUS (RET)
CAPT CAP, Mitchell 1975 (before numbers)
LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,807
Unit: Earth

« Reply #292 on: June 04, 2018, 04:18:24 PM »

However this is indeed $1 more than the screened seal polo shirt if you want to be picky

Which still is cheaper than the aviator. 

However, I would not call that picky, but I would call this picky, as your numbers do not match up:

Aviator shirt:
$13.99 from uniformswarehouse
$10 shipping (uniformwarehouse)
$9.60 Epaulets
$4.00 Nameplate
$8.05 for shipping (Vanguard)
Total:  $45.64

Polo (Screen):
$26.95 shirt
$8.05 shipping
Total:  $35.00

Embroidered cotton (no name):
$37.10 shirt
Free shipping
Total:  $37.10

Embroidered cotton with name:
$37.10 shirt
$9.00 embroidering
Free shipping
Total:  $46.10

*Yes, the shipping information is current and is accurate for my location--according to the respective company representatives*


So even with the $13.99 shirt, it is still cheaper to go with the polo shirt (either screen printed or embroidered) after you factor in the cost of shipping.  Now, I am sure you can bring up/find the $10 shirt from Goodwill or a handme down from a pilot which would drop that cost further.  I could also apply the monthly Vanguard coupons/discounts.  But I think we have what-if this to death and still find that for the general member, the polo is still the cheaper option.  Anyway, I have already spent more than "too much time" on this, moving on.

To my previous point, the aviator shirt and polo shirt combination are not equivalents.

Let's re-read CAPM 39-1, folks. The polo is a working uniform, not a service uniform. If you're instructed to wear Class Bs, and you want to wear the CAP equivalent, you should not be in the polo shirt.

Your financial comparison should be the polo and grey slacks (or tactical pants) against camo.

This would be a bit harder to quantify due to the variations and options, but I am fairly certain that the polo would come out cheaper (in general). 
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,342
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #293 on: June 04, 2018, 05:10:36 PM »

Wow, that was quite a measuring competition. "Was" being the operative term.
Say goodnight, Dick.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: USAF appears to be quietly transitioning to OCP stateside...
 


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