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Author Topic: USAF appears to be quietly transitioning to OCP stateside...  (Read 32839 times)
abdsp51
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« Reply #200 on: May 14, 2018, 06:43:58 PM »

Wait for it. Give it a week and we will see the first post about someone asking if we can wear it or when we are transitioning from ABU to OCP. Can’t wait to hear about it. Universal pattern for all.


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HandsomeWalt_USMC
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Unit: NER-MA-019

« Reply #201 on: May 14, 2018, 07:19:04 PM »

I hope CAP transitions to these sooner rather than later. If they do it quickly enough then I may never have to wear ABU! I despise the ABU, particularly with black boots. I just hate the way it looks. I'd suck it up and wear ABUs if we didn't l9ok like morons with the black boots and if we had the appropriate footwear at least would cut down on many of the questions from AD personnel. Many of those I've interacted with have expressed displeasure. As always, YMMV. Hopefully NHQ doesn't booger the OCPs the way they did ABUs.

I've always felt there should be a blurb in the 39-1 along the lines of:

 "The Civil Air Patrol Air Force-style uniform shall consist of the US Air Force uniform with necessary changes in insignia to adequately distinguish CAP members from USAF personnel. When a change in uniforms occurs, CAPNHQ will draft appropriate orders to adequately modify the Air Force uniform for CAP use and submit them for USAF approval within 90 days. Upon approval a three year phase-in period will begin to give members time to acquire the new uniforms."

Would keep us better aligned with our parent service and solve much hemming and hawing if done correctly.
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HANDSOME SENDS

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abdsp51
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Posts: 2,572
Unit: Classified

« Reply #202 on: May 14, 2018, 07:25:37 PM »

I hope CAP transitions to these sooner rather than later. If they do it quickly enough then I may never have to wear ABU! I despise the ABU, particularly with black boots. I just hate the way it looks. I'd suck it up and wear ABUs if we didn't l9ok like morons with the black boots and if we had the appropriate footwear at least would cut down on many of the questions from AD personnel. Many of those I've interacted with have expressed displeasure. As always, YMMV. Hopefully NHQ doesn't booger the OCPs the way they did ABUs.

I've always felt there should be a blurb in the 39-1 along the lines of:

 "The Civil Air Patrol Air Force-style uniform shall consist of the US Air Force uniform with necessary changes in insignia to adequately distinguish CAP members from USAF personnel. When a change in uniforms occurs, CAPNHQ will draft appropriate orders to adequately modify the Air Force uniform for CAP use and submit them for USAF approval within 90 days. Upon approval a three year phase-in period will begin to give members time to acquire the new uniforms."

Would keep us better aligned with our parent service and solve much hemming and hawing if done correctly.

First bit just dont wear ABUs.  Second bit you're aski g for a miracle.   While it would be nice to goto OCPs we shouldn't be in a rush. 
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JK657
Seasoned Member

Posts: 208

« Reply #203 on: May 14, 2018, 09:22:49 PM »

Since the OCP "scorpion" is an Army pattern (initially), will this have any effect on CAP getting it? Could that slow things down, etc?
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DocJekyll
Forum Regular

Posts: 181

« Reply #204 on: May 14, 2018, 09:49:53 PM »

Hey, look, no more green boots.

I knew that was going to happen a long way out. They aren't even going tan, they're going coyote! lol.

Ok, so Since I haven't seen anyone really do it, I'm going to break it down now that the announcement has officially been made:

-Regardless of your position on color/design preference on ANY uniform;
--We will see an initial surge of ABU's when the USAF begins to make it's transition
--We will likely see many of the other uniform items become more available as the rest of the force begins their switch
--With the OG and BDU, all services used those patterns so we had a pretty hefty allotment of surplus for some time from the AF and other branches for 30? years of use, which drove the nearly 10 year transition delay for both uniforms.
--Since the ABU was only used by the USAF and only for about 11 years before the transition to new uniform was announced, surplus will already be far lower than other uniforms we've had.
--Since only one branch used the ABU, surplus will also be limited. Once that initial surge of surplus diminishes, we're going to see availability for ABU's plummet and prices increase more than they already have similarly to what we started seeing with BDU's just prior to CAP making the decision to swap.
--OCP and it's prior generation design have been around a while and are easy to find and cheap already. Many in the AF already use it, and the entire Army is phasing in as well, which is why the AF switched to it and not a new pattern.
--People are going to argue/whine/complain about uniforms no matter what side of the fence they're on and try to make their point, and I don't exclude myself from that.

Now on to some points regarding CAP;
-CAP will want to remain distinctive to an extent (IE Black boots, Navy tapes w/ white lettering etc.) which it should be...
-CAP wants to remain close to it's parent organization visually and operationally.
-The USAF wants us to not diverge too much from them as a parent organization.
-From a PA perspective it makes sense to remain visually similar to our parent org.
-Many cadets are drawn to the program by the uniform (I was when I joined 14 years ago and I don't deny that). [It's the whole came for digs, stayed because it was awesome doing cool stuff thing]

Cons to switching to OCP within a reasonable time:
-It's one more uniform out there in the wild for cadets and seniors that fall within standards
-It's going to royally screw up our already defunct transition period to change things before the transition ends June 2021.
-If we don't start the change in a reasonable time, we're looking at a logistical nightmare sourcing uniforms for anyone for a reasonable price, to say nothing about sizes cadets can wear.

Pros to switching to the OCP in a reasonable time:
-We retain similarity visually with our parent organization while still being able to be distinctive.
-Vanguard already makes the velcro rank and name/branch tapes for CAP for use on the fleeces.
-Sizing will be better for all, but especially for cadets and females. (this is one of the stated reasons the AF is changing over)
-The uniforms are more comfortable (Both from personal experience and from information taken by the AF states this.)
-Velcro tapes, rank patches, etc make changing rank and other items easier.
-Other patches, Wing/NCSA/Squadron et. al. will work better with OCP's due to the velcro etc. I know many including myself went no-patches on the ABU's because they didn't look right, or other reasons.
-The boots can remain the same as we currently have, or we can change. Those who wear corporate usually stick to those, and those who wear USAF style generally stick to that anyways, so interplay between the two uniform types is a mute point. Only issue I see is possibly changing boot color with the flight suits, I don't know, flip a coin or something on those, it doesn't really matter.
-Ergonomics of the pockets/pouches are far better on OCP.
-This provides an opportunity for CAP to also change the BBDU to the ACU style pockets for similarity while retaining a corporate uniform for those who don't meet H/W standards and/or have religious preferences for beards/etc.
-This change will overall reduce cost to members due to product and uniform item availability over the coming years


For the TL;DR,

It's going to have to happen eventually. No CAP won't go to the BBDU exclusively or they would have done it with the previous itterations. Overall though, it's likely to be a good thing for CAP to do when they do switch to OCP or whatever the AF decides to wear going forward. Whether that means amending the current phase in or waiting until it's done then having another. I personally think we need to get out ahead of this one for sanity sake. We know it'll happen, but I doubt a 10 year wait is going to do us any good like it has in the past because of current climate with all the other branches uniforms all over the place and smaller surplus of USAF uniforms because so many didn't like the pattern (just like the original ACU pattern). At least the OCP/ACU, we're looking at things that are already out and have been on the shelves for years. Just like with most things it's not about looking cool, looking the same or anything else other than what usually is the determining factor: Logistics of acquiring items vs cost of maintaining a certain uniform type.

Any new uniform patterns adopted by any branch from this point forward (thanks to a bill passed in congress) will have to be adopted by all branches, so we may get to go back to having 1ish utility uniform for all branches like back in the days of OG greens or BDU's (and that's awesome for supply). The AF going to OCP is a GOOD thing. They're about to dramatically reduce the complexity of uniform and equipment choices.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 11:19:33 PM by DocJekyll » Logged
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,260

« Reply #205 on: May 14, 2018, 10:48:45 PM »

As for the Flight Suits in the Air Force.
The 2 Piece OCP Flight Suit is only worn in Non-Ejection Seat aircraft. Pilots who fly ejection seat aircraft still fly in the Green Nomex flight suits.
Which means most pilots in our "parent" command, Air Combat Command will continue to wear the green bag. So CAP still wearing it won't be a problem.
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DocJekyll
Forum Regular

Posts: 181

« Reply #206 on: May 14, 2018, 11:22:40 PM »

As for the Flight Suits in the Air Force.
The 2 Piece OCP Flight Suit is only worn in Non-Ejection Seat aircraft. Pilots who fly ejection seat aircraft still fly in the Green Nomex flight suits.
Which means most pilots in our "parent" command, Air Combat Command will continue to wear the green bag. So CAP still wearing it won't be a problem.

My comment was with regards to the boots, but I've edited it for clarity. I do know the AF is looking at feasability of 2 piece flight suits for ejection rated aircraft but that's not a related topic so I won't even touch it for this thread. Best to try to stay on point.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

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« Reply #207 on: May 14, 2018, 11:25:41 PM »

As for the Flight Suits in the Air Force.
The 2 Piece OCP Flight Suit is only worn in Non-Ejection Seat aircraft. Pilots who fly ejection seat aircraft still fly in the Green Nomex flight suits.
Which means most pilots in our "parent" command, Air Combat Command will continue to wear the green bag. So CAP still wearing it won't be a problem.

From the CSAF's memo...

"Already in our inventory and in use, the OCP 2-piece flight suit has overwhelming support from aircrew. This uniform will be authorized for all non-ejection seat wear and made available for purchase/issue. In addition, it will be tested for use in ejection seats for those who may prefer it over the one-piece flight suit.

Last I checked, all CAP aircraft are "non-ejection seat aircraft", and based on comments
online, given the option, you're not going to see too many green bags in a year or two.

So even on the flight lines, where there had been much more uniformity with the USAF, that will disappear as well.

And last I checked, all CAP aircraft were "non-ejection seat aircraft".
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DocJekyll
Forum Regular

Posts: 181

« Reply #208 on: May 14, 2018, 11:44:09 PM »

As for the Flight Suits in the Air Force.
The 2 Piece OCP Flight Suit is only worn in Non-Ejection Seat aircraft. Pilots who fly ejection seat aircraft still fly in the Green Nomex flight suits.
Which means most pilots in our "parent" command, Air Combat Command will continue to wear the green bag. So CAP still wearing it won't be a problem.

From the CSAF's memo...

"Already in our inventory and in use, the OCP 2-piece flight suit has overwhelming support from aircrew. This uniform will be authorized for all non-ejection seat wear and made available for purchase/issue. In addition, it will be tested for use in ejection seats for those who may prefer it over the one-piece flight suit.

Last I checked, all CAP aircraft are "non-ejection seat aircraft", and based on comments
online, given the option, you're not going to see too many green bags in a year or two.

So even on the flight lines, where there had been much more uniformity with the USAF, that will disappear as well.

And last I checked, all CAP aircraft were "non-ejection seat aircraft".

*gasp*

CAP Flight crews and just about every other senior/cadet in (OCP) Utility uniforms looking identical... only buying one uniform and it being similar enough it can work on both instances... what would we do  ::) ::) ::)
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sardak
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,201

« Reply #209 on: May 15, 2018, 12:30:38 AM »

From the FAQs about the change:

Q: What do I do with old ABUs or other uniform items I no longer want?

Disposition or amnesty boxes for clothing, such as those found down range, allow you to turn in unwanted items such as boots, blouses, pants or any unwanted military clothing item. The boxes, once full, are emptied, and the items are destroyed either by shredding or burning.

Airmen can dispose of the Airman Battle Uniform by destroying it. To properly destroy the uniform, Airmen should first remove all rank/grade insignia, name tapes and other identifiers sewn onto them, and then render the uniform unable to be physically worn by cutting the material.

Mike
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J2H
Seasoned Member

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Unit: MER-MD-031

« Reply #210 on: May 15, 2018, 01:23:58 PM »

I kept mine... even though they don't fit no more
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Dwight Dutton
Forum Regular

Posts: 149

« Reply #211 on: May 15, 2018, 01:45:54 PM »

[Overall, I liked the design of the ACUs over the BDUs, except the UCP color.  I wonder though, if CAP goes to OCPs, will Blue BDUs be transitioned to an OCP design--perhaps like Stonewall has suggested a few times before?

Probably not as the blue BDU design is standardized and use by a lot more than just CAP.  I would not be the least bit surprised to see OCP style blue BDU's made though, as there probably is a market for those anyway.  And if they are available at no cost to NHQ, they may well be added to the inventory as we do not have enough uniform choices available.

One thing that will change is no more pocket patches, which were always a nightmare to sew on, unless you were willing to accept a nonfunctional pocket (I never was, so I never wore them)
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GZCP31
Recruit

Posts: 36
Unit: Somewhere

« Reply #212 on: May 15, 2018, 02:48:59 PM »

Probably not as the blue BDU design is standardized and use by a lot more than just CAP.  I would not be the least bit surprised to see OCP style blue BDU's made though, as there probably is a market for those anyway.  And if they are available at no cost to NHQ, they may well be added to the inventory as we do not have enough uniform choices available.

One thing that will change is no more pocket patches, which were always a nightmare to sew on, unless you were willing to accept a nonfunctional pocket (I never was, so I never wore them)
The OCP style Blue ate already available through Tru-Spec. Their Ripstop is nice and thin for us in the south. I have a pair of the woodland TRU (TACTICAL RESPONSE UNIFORM®) pants and they are nice in the summer. They breath well. But they are expensive.
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LATORRECA
Seasoned Member

Posts: 240

« Reply #213 on: May 15, 2018, 04:53:37 PM »

     So, I just got back from our weekly CAP meeting and another senior member working at a Joint command commented “all AF personnel in ****command are running to the uniform store to make the 1st Oct dateline.”  Funny comments followed by “are you ready for the change.”
     I thought the comments were funny and of good taste.

    For the current AF personnel on this blog. Kudos on your Service by dropping the ABU uniform. ✌️
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NIN
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« Reply #214 on: May 15, 2018, 04:54:55 PM »

CAP Flight crews and just about every other senior/cadet in (OCP) Utility uniforms looking identical... only buying one uniform and it being similar enough it can work on both instances... what would we do  ::) ::) ::)

The Zipper-suited Sun God™ union would have a field day with that.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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DocJekyll
Forum Regular

Posts: 181

« Reply #215 on: May 15, 2018, 05:16:34 PM »

CAP Flight crews and just about every other senior/cadet in (OCP) Utility uniforms looking identical... only buying one uniform and it being similar enough it can work on both instances... what would we do  ::) ::) ::)

The Zipper-suited Sun God™ union would have a field day with that.

I'm a member of Local 025 and I'm fine with it.  >:D >:D >:D
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,572
Unit: Classified

« Reply #216 on: May 15, 2018, 05:24:35 PM »

No desire to wear it at all.  Plus not fiscally smart...   Talking to a friend of mine I may get a few pairs of pants for task wear but that's about it.....
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DocJekyll
Forum Regular

Posts: 181

« Reply #217 on: May 16, 2018, 11:29:58 AM »

No desire to wear it at all.  Plus not fiscally smart...   Talking to a friend of mine I may get a few pairs of pants for task wear but that's about it.....

Well there in lays the problem... It's going to become fiscally smart in a hurry when ABU supplies dry up like the BDU did, but we're looking at ABU's being destroyed instead of going to surplus for CAP and no other branches using the uniform... It's like a hurricane on the horizon.

I'm sure NHQ understands that and is looking at what we need to do to get out in front of it.
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Dwight Dutton
Forum Regular

Posts: 149

« Reply #218 on: May 16, 2018, 12:21:42 PM »

The OCP style Blue are already available through Tru-Spec. Their Ripstop is nice and thin for us in the south. I have a pair of the woodland TRU (TACTICAL RESPONSE UNIFORM®) pants and they are nice in the summer. They breath well. But they are expensive.

I can't find the OCP style blue uniform, I'm interested in seeing it.  No doubt the pants are also made in some shade of grey and we could get out in front of this change and make those the official tac pants for the CWU and actually have a standard.
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GZCP31
Recruit

Posts: 36
Unit: Somewhere

« Reply #219 on: May 16, 2018, 12:55:20 PM »

The OCP style Blue are already available through Tru-Spec. Their Ripstop is nice and thin for us in the south. I have a pair of the woodland TRU (TACTICAL RESPONSE UNIFORM®) pants and they are nice in the summer. They breath well. But they are expensive.

I can't find the OCP style blue uniform, I'm interested in seeing it.  No doubt the pants are also made in some shade of grey and we could get out in front of this change and make those the official tac pants for the CWU and actually have a standard.
I didn't notice the TRU had a different collar. That is the closest
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: USAF appears to be quietly transitioning to OCP stateside...
 


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