Quote from: PHall on December 10, 2025, 06:16:08 PMWell if you want to bring Warrant Officers back to CAP you'll have to convince the Air Force it's a good idea since the Air Force controls the officer grades in CAP.

I have no care one way or another. Just an observation that I thought might be worth having a chat about.  Jury is still out on if starting a discussion on "gasp" a discussion board was a good idea. 

Quote from: CAP9907 on December 09, 2025, 06:16:18 PMAnother solution searching for a problem, just like the NCO program. Our rank structure is already warped with random Col's and way too many Lt Col's running around with no command responsibilities. Just no.

Not trying to solve anything. I said I had no opinion either way and could see more reasons to not have them come back than to come back.

And sorry for being one of those Lt Col's with no command responsibilities... Having been in multiple command assignments, many of which I didn't want because other members can't or wont step up to fill those roles. Maybe I'm a little tired of doing all the work and think some of the newer members need to step up and I can sit back and provide mentorship.  Or you can force me into retirement, but I'd like to see what happens when suddenly all of our Cols and Lt Cols are told they can't be in CAP anymore because they're not holding a command or that they're going to be demoted unless they're commanders again.  Let me know how that works out for the organization.

Well if you want to bring Warrant Officers back to CAP you'll have to convince the Air Force it's a good idea since the Air Force controls the officer grades in CAP.

CAPR 35-5, 22 Nov 2016, Para 1.5.10.  Changes to CAP Grade Structure.  The Air Force has authority over the CAP grade structure. Requests for changes to the CAP General Officer Grade Structure must be approved by the Chief of Staff of the Air Force. Requests for changes to the CAP Grade Structure for Colonels and below will be approved by the CAP-USAF/CC.

Our version of Warrant Officers already exist...FO, TFO, and SFO. Those grades are reserved for senior members under the age of 21. As it is, a good portion of our membership doesn't even know what they are. I remember attending a Vermont Wing SLS back in the early 90s as a 20 year old Senior Flight Officer. I kept being told I was in the wrong classroom and that the Cadet Advisory Council meeting was down the hall. Current and former military Warrant Officers can already receive an equivalent regular officer grade. No reason to make things more complex than they already are.

As far as I'm concerned, warrant officers in CAP can stay gone. I was one many moons ago, and there wasn't much functional difference from regular officers. It wasn't even a 21 and under thing. When I joined, I knew a couple of WOs in their 40s.

Quote from: biomed441 on December 08, 2025, 05:16:22 PMOr, for those members who are AF Warrant officers and also members of CAP, which if I recall a few of the first graduates of the new warrant program are CAP members.  Would CAP Match their grade or require they progress through the CAP Officer program instead. 

One of those new WOs is a member of my wing, is currently a CAP SMSgt, our wing NCO advisor and IT director.  Unless/until CAP brings back warrant grades, he has no intention of changing that status.

I could see an instance where WOs might come back into CAP and be useful, but that is highly unlikely to happen, and I'm not really a proponent of it.  Just a passing thought I had while discussing some CP related items with a few others (sitting around trying to solve all of CAP's problems).

Otherwise, since we're all expected to be technical experts in one or more areas, with increasing levels of education, training and responsibilities, I really don't see much of a need for WOs in CAP.

Another solution searching for a problem, just like the NCO program. Our rank structure is already warped with random Col's and way too many Lt Col's running around with no command responsibilities. Just no.

With the USAF Re-introducing Warrant officers, I'm curious how this might apply to CAPs rank structure and or if it should at all?   It looks like the new USAF Warrant Officers are only for specific career fields (IT and cyber operations) so application is already limited in scope here, so I don't particularly see application for CAP. I'd venture to say most CAP IT officers would rather progress through the traditional PD Program and officer grades, though theoretically could be offered a warrant path instead since there are 5 levels for warrants to progress in.   

Or, for those members who are AF Warrant officers and also members of CAP, which if I recall a few of the first graduates of the new warrant program are CAP members.  Would CAP Match their grade or require they progress through the CAP Officer program instead. 

Random thoughts. No real opinion either way and can see more reasons to NOT bring back warrant officers than for it, but who knows.

Quote from: Adam B (again) on December 03, 2025, 08:52:16 PMThat is what I suspected. I was sort of hoping that there might be a wing or region out there that had a clear if-this-than-that logic to determining personnel placement, but I think there just might be too many unique factors to allow for that type of approach without an entire flowchart.

Sadly, no. 

Every wing has different populations, geography, HQ locations (although thats less of a concern now), unit strutures and locations, etc.  You might get an awesome DCP, but she's the most experienced CP gal in her unit and transferring her to wing would gut that unit's cadet program.  Or you have someone who lives 3hrs from the flagpole, but 10 minutes from their squadron, and they want to keep on keeping on locally. 

  Wish I had a better answer than "Sorry, its all over the map."

Quote from: CAP9907 on December 02, 2025, 06:13:06 PMHolding SAR "training" events a couple of times a year for the photo-op or FB posts does NOT make a credible SAR team.

Yeah, absolutely. Credibility is definitely currency, but you don't get credibility without competency. I've seen plenty of all-volunteer teams where nobody is wearing uniforms or tacticool clothes, but they're a trusted team because they train twice a month, have nationally recognized certifications, and have repeatedly demonstrated they get the job done. These volunteers aren't pulling double duty as personnel officers, cadet mentors, prepping for SUIs, or worrying about the latest fashion choices. They're solely focused on SAR and the skills they need to be effective.

CAP's self-qualification process is so woefully inadequate, competency is hard to come by. Members who "participate" in two missions get signed off regardless of skill level and then move on to the next qualification to add to their badge collection. Even wings that put real effort into ground teams have a hard time getting folks to train more than every couple of months because members complain they're already very busy with other CAP related duties (which is often quite true).

When people ask me about participating in ground SAR, I usually recommend locating an area volunteer team instead of spending time on CAP's diminishing (if not disappeared) program.