February 19, 2020, 01:58:29 am

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Membership / Re: CAP Cadet Program versus B...
Last post by Eclipse - Yesterday at 08:20:41 pm
Not that they need an apologist, but some issues around this might need to be brought
forward. As I've mentioned before, I was a Scout, as are my two sons, one who is an Eagle, and
the other who got his last Eagle sign-off completed literally yesterday.

The bankruptcy filing is strategic, intended to slow down a number of lawsuits that
allege abuse.  Published reports indicate the BSA is sitting on about $1.5B in assets
against about $500M in liabilities. It will also allow them to continue operations,
and potentially sets time limits on additional claimants.

Those same reports indicate that the Area Councils, which operate as separate business entities,
own another $3.3B in assets, so to my aged thread on comparing the organizations, as
well as comments in this thread, there simply is no comparison, from the perspective of
scale.  CAP operating budget is a rounding error compared to the BSA.

This came to a head in recent years because a number of states have changed their
statutes of limitations, allowing cases from 30 some years ago to be filed today.

These are from the same ERA as when CAP, and a number of other youth organizations, made significant
changes to their policies and training requirements for adult leaders.

Indications are that while this isn't' going to help recruiting, local Troop operations will
be largely unaffected.

As with any time you have kids who were part of benevolent organizations who had kids who
were neglected, abused, or worse, not only is it terrible for them to have been wronged by
the very people who they reached to for help, but it's also sad for the millions of
adults over the years who have done nothing but serve honorably who get besmirched by
the actions of a very small number of people.
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Membership / Re: Key Traits for SM Programs
Last post by TheSkyHornet - Yesterday at 08:10:14 pm
Quote from: etodd on Yesterday at 07:52:10 pmAs had been said, their really is no Senior Program that mirrors Cadets. Its totally different. Its up to each individual to find what interest them and to work at it. Its our diversity of interests that makes us strong.

Well, and this really only applies because of the fact that we're a "wide berth" volunteer organization that has numerous mission focuses. It's not like we all do the same thing.

As someone who works almost exclusively in Cadet Programs, I really don't need to be strapped into the middle of Ground Team whatevers. The leadership training principles remain the same. But the duty training elements are vastly different. And this is precisely where a one-size-fits-all methodology dies in this type of organization.

SLS and CLC content applies to everyone. But not necessarily TLC or GTM3. These are targeted training programs that directly impact the capacity and extent to which one participates/serves. But they need to remain areas that the individual member pursues.

The whole "activities should be fun, challenging, etc." doesn't really apply to the senior corps in its entirety. Senior members are not in a constant practical training program. They can be but are not necessarily required to be. Many seniors want a no-bullhockey environment where everyone takes it serious (show up, work, leave). And those grunts may be absolutely fantastic at what they do in that arena. Then there are the ones that thrive on social activities who want to be the planners and coordinators; and they are fantastic at what they do.

We need to understand that senior members are not cadets, and they're not being trained to be developed, self-reliant adults. This is the expectation when they join. We catch them up to speed on the "CAP way," but we expect them to pick up on their own and be self-starting (which we automatically expect cadets to need to learn how to do as they move up in the program).

This is where we need to look to the local level and help squadron units build up their own corps of seniors to meet the needs of those in the locale. What are your senior members looking for, and, are you (as a Commander or designee) helping to provide them that? We can't write a manual for how we maintain a senior program when it's really about knowing your people and working to provide them with operational opportunity and personal development. And that's going to differ for most people on a career track where it's at your own pace and to your own agenda.

Quote from: Eclipse on Yesterday at 08:00:15 pmWhich is probably the core of the issues CAP has today, namely attempting
to mirror a military organizaiton and augment ES response agencies while
essentially requiring no training or participation, per se, coupled with little oversight or little ramifications for lack of execution.

Exactly this.

And, again, this goes right back to the fact that CAP has multiple missions that are virtually segregated. Our missions may be effective in their own nature, but they are really not well interfaced, which creates a difference in the training structure of the people involved.

This can't be a cookie cutter approach to maintaining a senior member roster.
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Membership / Re: Key Traits for SM Programs
Last post by Eclipse - Yesterday at 08:00:15 pm
Quote from: etodd on Yesterday at 07:52:10 pmAs had been said, their really is no Senior Program that mirrors Cadets.

Which is probably the core of the issues CAP has today, namely attempting
to mirror a military organizaiton and augment ES response agencies while
essentially requiring no training or participation, per se, coupled with little oversight or little ramifications for lack of execution.

"Come as you are / do as you please" is no way to run an organization like CAP.
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Membership / Re: Key Traits for SM Programs
Last post by etodd - Yesterday at 07:52:10 pm
Quote from: Fester on Yesterday at 06:40:08 amSounds like all of that is "I like the status quo and don't want to learn and grow."  Which leads to complacency. 

Quite the opposite.  In the many areas I am involved in, I'm constantly learning, growing and improving skill sets.  Just because I'm not interested in your area, does not equal complacency at all.

Too many confuse growth, with getting new ribbons and bars.  For some people it is, for others its not.

As had been said, their really is no Senior Program that mirrors Cadets. Its totally different. Its up to each individual to find what interest them and to work at it. Its our diversity of interests that makes us strong. :)

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Membership / Re: CAP Cadet Program versus B...
Last post by FW - Yesterday at 07:08:29 pm
Quote from: NIN on Yesterday at 06:09:26 pmRead that this morning. Bad juju for Scouting.

Maybe there's a good reason for CAP not to be 2M scouts and 20,000 units.


We had some major issues back in the 90's culminating in a very good CPPT process.  All in all, I think we will never have the problems found in BSA.
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Membership / Re: CAP Cadet Program versus B...
Last post by Jester - Yesterday at 07:05:28 pm
Quote from: NIN on Yesterday at 06:09:26 pm
Quote from: Jester on Yesterday at 04:56:27 pmInteresting that this popped back up today since their bankruptcy filing is in the news.

BSA Bankruptcy

Read that this morning. Bad juju for Scouting.

Maybe there's a good reason for CAP not to be 2M scouts and 20,000 units.



So does their size make adequate protection measures harder to enforce?  I don't know much of anything about the organization with the exception of being a cub scout 25+ years ago.

I'm not sure what their CPP "equivalent" is, what the adult entrance requirements are, etc since my kids aren't old enough to do Scouting yet.
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Membership / Re: Re: NCOs in CAP (Split fro...
Last post by Holding Pattern - Yesterday at 06:54:44 pm
Quote from: Fubar on Yesterday at 07:34:14 am
Quote from: Eclipse on February 17, 2020, 08:18:26 pmMaybe in your AOR, but that's not even remotely true nationally.

My opinion is based upon not only my AOR, but the various Facebook pages, Twitter feeds, and wing websites that post photos of cadet activities and ES training (and occasionally missions).

Several squadrons in my area have deliberately shut down all PAO ops because rather than Wing or higher HQs being helpful in correcting uniform issues those directorates feel that their mission is to find a pixel out of place in a uniform and come down on the squadron leadership like a ton of bricks.

There are plenty of people wearing uniforms; they just avoid the limelight like the plague.
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Membership / Re: CAP Cadet Program versus B...
Last post by NIN - Yesterday at 06:09:26 pm
Quote from: Jester on Yesterday at 04:56:27 pmInteresting that this popped back up today since their bankruptcy filing is in the news.

BSA Bankruptcy

Read that this morning. Bad juju for Scouting.

Maybe there's a good reason for CAP not to be 2M scouts and 20,000 units.

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The Marketplace / Re: Corcoran Mens Black 10-Inc...
Last post by LATORRECA - Yesterday at 05:48:08 pm
Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on Yesterday at 03:47:12 pmYou walk on sandpaper in those? Surprised by the sole wear in pics.
Pavement I guess never took them to the field..and only use them about a handful of time..

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

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Membership / Re: CAP Cadet Program versus B...
Last post by Jester - Yesterday at 04:56:27 pm
Interesting that this popped back up today since their bankruptcy filing is in the news.

BSA Bankruptcy
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