Quote from: CAP9907 on December 02, 2025, 06:13:06 PMHolding SAR "training" events a couple of times a year for the photo-op or FB posts does NOT make a credible SAR team.

Yeah, absolutely. Credibility is definitely currency, but you don't get credibility without competency. I've seen plenty of all-volunteer teams where nobody is wearing uniforms or tacticool clothes, but they're a trusted team because they train twice a month, have nationally recognized certifications, and have repeatedly demonstrated they get the job done. These volunteers aren't pulling double duty as personnel officers, cadet mentors, prepping for SUIs, or worrying about the latest fashion choices. They're solely focused on SAR and the skills they need to be effective.

CAP's self-qualification process is so woefully inadequate, competency is hard to come by. Members who "participate" in two missions get signed off regardless of skill level and then move on to the next qualification to add to their badge collection. Even wings that put real effort into ground teams have a hard time getting folks to train more than every couple of months because members complain they're already very busy with other CAP related duties (which is often quite true).

When people ask me about participating in ground SAR, I usually recommend locating an area volunteer team instead of spending time on CAP's diminishing (if not disappeared) program.

Quote from: NIN on December 03, 2025, 04:46:02 PMYou do know who admins this forum, yah?

The name sounds familiar. 
Any way to get me back into my other account? 

Quote from: NINsince I know your particular landscape[...]

Oops, tried to keep it vague, but maybe the name was a giveaway    

Quote from: NINPrimarily, its a member management issue, followed by a "where do they participate the most?" (snipped)

Thanks for the very detailed thoughts. I appreciate it.

Quote from: NINIt varies by wing, member, duties, expectations and the ability of the wing to support the move.

That is what I suspected. I was sort of hoping that there might be a wing or region out there that had a clear if-this-than-that logic to determining personnel placement, but I think there just might be too many unique factors to allow for that type of approach without an entire flowchart.

Quote from: Adam B (again) on November 28, 2025, 12:47:42 PMI suppose I can offer a bit of context to my questions: I recently had a conversation with my Wing Commander about a member who requested a transfer to 001. They hold active, primary assignments at both the Wing and Squadron levels. Operationally, there's seemingly no benefit to transferring them, but there's also no clear drawback to doing so, either. We eventually landed on the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach and kept them assigned to their local unit. It got me thinking, though, so now I'm curious how other HHQs handle it.

So yeah, since I know your particular landscape, I'll speak both to that and other "options" that might be seen elsewhere.

Primarily, its a member management issue, followed by a "where do they participate the most?"

Questions that get asked substantially in this regard are "Where do you want to manage that member's records?" and "Where does that member or that member's commander have to make duty assignments?"

Example: SMSgt Smithers is an NCO. He is assigned to the Podunk Sq as the Squadron NCO, and he's also their Leadership Officer.  Col Jones is like "I need a Wing NCO, I'd like SMSgt Smithers to be it."

Now you ask/answer some questions:
Where will SMSgt Smithers be participating the bulk of his time?
-- Is the wing big enough (units, personnel, size, etc) that SMSgt Smithers has to focus at wing, or can he do the wing job alongside his unit duties? IOW, if you're Texas wing and the wing commander is from Amarillo and SMSgt Smithers is from San Antonio, he might be needed more to be a "command team representative" in the southern half of the state frequently. If you're in Rhode Island Wing, well, we know the answer there! You can drive to everybody's house in the squadron wing van in one evening.
-- If he will continue to participate at the unit on a weekly and retain those roles, it might make sense to keep him there. His personnel record and week-to-week work management will be managed by the local commander & personnel officer. His commander can still have the ability to assign/reassign, promote, award, etc within the unit.
-- If the intent is that SMSgt Smithers will now be the Wing NCO most of the time and only occasionally go to  unit meetings to, say, sit on promotion boards or grade drill tests, then it might make sense to transfer him to 001.

Is wing equipped to handle the personnel records and management of many members of wing HQ?
-- If you're a big wing (California), you might have 2-3 people in Personnel and managing a larger HQ unit is no issue.
-- If you're a smaller wing and you only have 10-12 in the 001, and one personnel officer for all the wing duties PLUS the HQ personnel management, it might make sense to leave people at the squadron and then ADY them to Wing. Thats a wing-by-wing kind of question.

Is your wing and subordinate units big enough that its not a problem to move someone to 001?
-- This is an issue in smaller wings. You don't want to be raiding already small squadrons for people and moving them to wing, even if you then ADY them back to the squadron. Having an insufficient number of members actually assigned to the unit could cause problems with CPP ratios, the number of TLC trained seniors assigned to the squadron, etc.
-- In larger wings, or a larger unit, moving a TLC-trained senior to wing and then ADYing him back to the unit might not even show up as more than a 5% drop in TLC-trained seniors.

Are you prepared to deal with the administrative upheaval that any transfer and downward ADY assignment entails?
-- When you move a member between units, eServices very helpfully drops ALL their assignments. (It might not drop an 001 ADY assignment if you transfer from a subordinate unit to 001, I haven't looked at that lately) This can cause problems with CDI assignments, WSA, etc. 
-- Wing DP has to manage all subordinate ADY assignments for the 001 member at the local unit. Including committee assignments. Squadron commander wants to assign SMSgt Smithers to the Squadron Membership Committee? Wing DP has to do it.  Squadron commander wants to make SMSgt Smithers the Assistant Logistics Officer? Wing DP has to do it.
-- If the member is going to do just one clearly defined job at Wing HQ and then continue to participate in the local unit, it is likely far, far easier to leave them assigned to the unit, give them that HQ assignment, and not "upset the apple cart" at the unit. Wing DP can still easily act on any other 001 ADY assignment/reassignments of a member at the lower echelon.

Who has OPCON over the member's activities? 
-- For example, if SMSgt Smithers applies to encampment, who approves his RegZone application? Its the Wing Commander if you're at 001. So does the wing commander need to click "OK" every time the Podunk Squadron runs a trip to the South Northwest Museum of Flight and does sign ups in RegZone?
-- How about vice versa? SMSgt Smithers is going to region conference as part of the command team. Can his commander say "Nah, I'm not approving that"?  (not likely, I think the higher echelon commander can override)

This is a long way around saying, basically, you  need to figure out what the member's Center of Gravity looks like.  Will the bulk of their activity and management need to occur at wing based on the duties they are doing, or will their predominate activity occur at their current unit of assignment?  It varies by wing, member, duties, expectations and the ability of the wing to support the move.



Clear as mud, yah?

Quote from: Adam B (again) on November 26, 2025, 06:24:55 PMWelp, I somehow got locked out of my account and I'm not receiving any of the the reset emails, so I guess I'm Adam (again) now.

Anyway, I don't mean the reserve squadron XX-000, but rather the HQ unit, XX-001.

You do know who admins this forum, yah?

Quote from: Fubar on December 02, 2025, 02:01:44 AMCAP abandoned ground search decades ago. It's only still on the books because of the number of squadrons that use ground team "training" as a cadet activity.

^this

Holding SAR "training" events a couple of times a year for the photo-op or FB posts does NOT make a credible SAR team.

CAP abandoned ground search decades ago. It's only still on the books because of the number of squadrons that use ground team "training" as a cadet activity.

Quote from: Hippidy on November 29, 2025, 06:29:44 AM

Quote from: NIN on November 20, 2025, 03:48:40 PM

I'm totally behind this as well! That way OCP and the Blueberries are at least the same cut and design.
Someone send it up the chain!

Quote from: Hippidy on November 29, 2025, 06:29:44 AM

Quote from: NIN on November 20, 2025, 03:48:40 PM[redacted pic]

I'm totally behind this as well! That way OCP and the Blueberries are at least the same cut and design.
Someone send it up the chain!

Or move everyone to blue.

Quote from: NIN on November 20, 2025, 03:48:40 PM

I'm totally behind this as well! That way OCP and the Blueberries are at least the same cut and design.
Someone send it up the chain!

Interesting. That sounds like a pretty sensible thing to do. I could see how there could be a perception that a squadron member working at the wing level could potentially influence the treatment of their home unit.
In Wings with policies like that, I'm curious if they would still allow the member to retain whatever duty assignment they had at their squadron. For example, could a member transfer to 001 as the Wing's LG, but keep their LGT role at a local unit as an ADY? 

Also, while that suggests a reason for transferring someone when they get a Wing duty assignment, are there any compelling reasons against to transferring someone? Administratively, it seems simpler to have people assigned at the lowest reasonable level (keeping squadron-level actions at the squadron level), but are there any other considerations?

I suppose I can offer a bit of context to my questions: I recently had a conversation with my Wing Commander about a member who requested a transfer to 001. They hold active, primary assignments at both the Wing and Squadron levels. Operationally, there's seemingly no benefit to transferring them, but there's also no clear drawback to doing so, either. We eventually landed on the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach and kept them assigned to their local unit. It got me thinking, though, so now I'm curious how other HHQs handle it.

Some wings have an unwritten policy that directors of key areas (Ops, Finance, CP, etc) be members of the wing HQ unit to avoid any appearances of improprieties. 

Are they more effective or different than having someone be ADY as say, the wing DCP?  No idea, but if your DCP is assigned to a squadron, and that squadron seems to get all the choice assignments, or the wing DO's squadron always seems to get the new airplane, it may be time to ask some hard questions.  Because I can assure you, the folks in the field are asking them.