There are numerous heraldry organizations/units. Which are you needing?

Vanguard is not helping I dont know if its a language barrier or if they are intentionally being obtuse ... Does anyone have a POC for the IOH that I can reach out to please?

Quote from: Fubar on Yesterday at 11:00:15 AMOf course the issue would be getting the USAF to sign off one giving up their bureaucracy and pre-approving CAP to get uniforms. That doesn't seem like something a bureaucracy would do.

For some reason, that line made me think of Sir Humphrey Appleby from the BBC political comedy Yes, Prime Minister.  It's just a line Sir Humphrey would say.

Jack

Quote from: Shuman 14 on May 18, 2024, 07:32:29 PMAgain, this is why we need to put a clause in CAPR 39-1 that within 5-years of any uniform change by the USAF, it will be adopted, with appropriate CAP modification, by CAP.

Of course the issue would be getting the USAF to sign off one giving up their bureaucracy and pre-approving CAP to get uniforms. That doesn't seem like something a bureaucracy would do.

Quote

Quote from: Shuman 14 on May 18, 2024, 07:37:37 PMThe Delay isn't Civil Air Patrol, the delay is the Air Force because I think they like to make it more complicated than it needs to be.  The Air Force says it takes years to process this kind of request.  Civil Air Patrol has made the request.  The ball is no longer in our court.

That's a fair answer and most likely the truth.

I have consistent spoken with people directly involved with the draft and working committees and to a T they all pretty much have told me over the years that aside from DLA, it makes its way through the CAP-USAF approval fairly quickly. That said, I understand we had DLA approval early last year, so the word that I got about it being Vanguard (from the NUC chair last year) seems most plausible unless they keep changing things after approval.

One of those changes being brown boots though? Yeah, I'm fine with that one having delayed things.

[quote/] The Delay isn't Civil Air Patrol, the delay is the Air Force because I think they like to make it more complicated than it needs to be.  The Air Force says it takes years to process this kind of request.  Civil Air Patrol has made the request.  The ball is no longer in our court.
[/quote]

That's a fair answer and most likely the truth.

Quote from: SierraOneThree on May 15, 2024, 08:04:19 PMVanguard, last I heard.

FRAK Vanguard. 

They'll just up charge the cost of a uniform that can be bought for a third less online elsewhere. 

Okay, I completely understand the need to have a single source for CAP specific items (rank, badges, awards, etc,) but I don't think we need to be tied to them for uniform clothing items.

Blue BDUs can be bought from numerous venders.
OCPs can be bought from numerous venders.
USAF-style uniforms can be bought from numerous venders.
White pilot shirts, grey trousers, and dark blue suit coats can be bought from numerous venders.

BUT, they have us by the short hairs for ABUs, because no one else wants them. I submit to you it is STILL easier to get woodland pattern BDUs from an outside vender today, then it is to get ABUs from ANYWHERE besides Vanguard.

Again, this is why we need to put a clause in CAPR 39-1 that within 5-years of any uniform change by the USAF, it will be adopted, with appropriate CAP modification, by CAP.

This eliminates future "Mother May I" requests and puts Vanguard on notice not to buy additional obsolete uniforms in the 5-year transition period when chang occurs.

Quote from: Fubar on May 18, 2024, 10:58:41 AMWell, the CEO and his vice commander (and soon to be CEO) keep answering the question at wing conferences across the country and people keep posting what they say, so they don't seem to be treating the information like a secret. I also just checked, Vanguard is still selling ABUs, so there shouldn't be any members who can't get ABUs if they want/need them.

More than their fair share of anecdotes reporting severe backorders.

Also, they're pretty much the ONLY real "consistent" place to get ABUs, and you get to pay nearly $130 for a full set. You can save a few bucks by not getting a patrol cap though. Going to encampment and need a second set of ABUs? Good luck!

Quote from: SierraOneThree on May 18, 2024, 03:11:29 AMThe Air Force approved it ages ago, from what I understand direct from the NUC chair as of late last year. OCPs are a given and everyone involved knows it, the only thing I can think of as far as going back to make them review it again was the addition of brown boots a few months back. But now I'm hearing the uniform has once again been pushed out a year or two, so some transparency would be nice given how many squadrons/members simply cannot get ABUs anymore.

Well, the CEO and his vice commander (and soon to be CEO) keep answering the question at wing conferences across the country and people keep posting what they say, so they don't seem to be treating the information like a secret. I also just checked, Vanguard is still selling ABUs, so there shouldn't be any members who can't get ABUs if they want/need them.

Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on May 17, 2024, 09:35:26 PMI don't doubt you're right, but I don't see why they have to buy them until the final phaseout date. Let VG sell them until then, just direct no new orders. They kept selling BDU clothing and ultramarine items on closeout for years. I'm sure some clever fellow with a mind for retail analytics can determine exactly when to stop producing/stocking the ABU stuff as the OCPs come out.

Because the second you say ABUs are on the way out and here's where to buy the new uniform, the demand for the discontinued uniform is gonna drop to near zero. At least that's what happened with the BDU to ABU transition. I doubt Vanguard is willing (and likely isn't contractually obligated) to sit on ABU inventory for the five year phase-out of ABUs to then have CAP purchase wasn't sold.

So the goal is to have the inventory as low as possible so that CAP buys the minimal amount of uniforms as possible to then, presumably, throw away.