Quote from: Shuman 14 on Today at 02:38:51 AMYou just have to be a currently serving Auxiliarist with an active "Employee Identification Number", the USCGAux's version of the CAPID and off you go.

Perhaps RiverAux can chime in, but perhaps this is because the USCG Aux is an actual part of the Coast Guard while the Civil Air Patrol Inc. is a not-for-profit corporation that is in no way "part" of the Air Force. Affiliated, sure, but not a part of.

QuoteSomething similar should be able to be set up with AAFES. Again, that word, hard, but not impossible.

You're talking about getting at least two, if not three separate bureaucracies (which we have zero influence over) to change their processes for no benefit to them. That may in fact be the definition of impossible.

Quote from: Shuman 14 on Today at 02:38:51 AMWell, the Coast Guard, and the Coast Guard Auxiliary seemed to have figured it out. Now their version of the AAFES, the Uniform Distrobusion Center, will accept orders directly from an Auxiliarist and ship straight to their home of record, and you never have to set foot on a base.

You just have to be a currently serving Auxiliarist with an active "Employee Identification Number", the USCGAux's version of the CAPID and off you go. You can order and pay for any uniform item authorized for use by the USCGAux. Clearly, they won't let you buy a set of 4-Star USCG Admiral's Shoulder Boards, but standard uniforms, boots, shoes, etc. you can buy all day.

Something similar should be able to be set up with AAFES. Again, that word, hard, but not impossible.

CGAUX ID card gets you on base (theoretically) just as a normal DODID would.

Theoretically. But you'll run into that one E3 or E6 who just doesn't know any better and get held up.

I'll echo this

Curriculum needs to change and I am sure Col Bob Ditch is doing his level best with FEMA EMI to do virtual and in person delivery

BUT

CAP needs to align its curriculum and how to do tasks with EMAs in the necessary "stuff" as POD, Volunteer Reception Center training where cadets can assist in setup and some intake, how to train with Red Cross, etc

The CAP answer is for the Sqdn Commander or Wing Commander to meet up those folks with our "Capabilities Pamphlet" is one way but where is the training for those volunteers with States that have MOUs with State EMAs, Red Cross, etc

CAP needs more 'how to's" for SMs....sometime EMAs look at CAP sideways due to some of the strong personalities that think we are first on scene.  Not always true...we are a supporting agency. Some SMs do sit in EOCs and get the idea on things operate BUT before I retired out of an EMA, i observed very few CAP members attend any level of ICS training and that's probably because CAP didn't buy off or in to the program when the ICS train began to rollout w FEMA in the early 2000's

ICS has been around since the 1970s and 1980s through the FIRESCOPE program began and this where CERT became a direct descendant of the LA Fire and Citizen Corps grant program where CAP was not. Our 501(c)3, AF affiliation which may not identify totally with the ICS construct as the civilians, and Congressional writeup may have some legal ramifications

We may be a Search and "Rescue" organization but when our organization relies on a CAPR39-1 that is about 140 pages and a not so current CAPR 60-3, which is our ES bread and butter, is only about 36-45 pages....

I refer to the FEMA 508 Resource and Typing standards and Position Taskbooks that CAP needs to "plagarize" because FEMA basically did from the National Wildfire Coordinating Group Position Taskbooks for all fire position Federally and Statewide through the State Foresters and CAP with its withering paid staff need an additional position to the creation of these so we can "seamlessly" work our "SQTRs" to something in more of an alignment of the real world...there's a few of us out here...but to volunteer ...naw...there's grant programs to hire us folks who know the system well

It's about time the cadets get exposed to the big people world of EM, because there's plenty of colleges with degree programs in EM and because not everyone in CAP, cadet or SM, are destined to be pilots.

Everyone needs a blunt conversation of what MR Shuman describes because as retired EMA Planner with plenty of field and disaster experience, CAP is not well known quantity in my AOR, that many a Col used to say they had this all sewn up...it was more in his home of record, but certainly not Statewide during my employment and because some State EMAs, not all, do not really enjoy working with certain egos which are certainly in the EM world and cadets of the future need to be ready for the tougher work world of EM should they so choose

Well, people are going to hate me for saying this, but our ES is currently a joke and shell of what it once was, thirty-forty years ago.

I have never once seen a ground team or UDF Team deploy in an actual mission. I've seen Air Teams get called up to go take pictures or fly some medical supplies or organs as a real-world mission and I heard stories of CAP distributing food and water after a tornado, but that is it.

Now I'm sure somewhere, CAP is johnnie on the spot and gets called out regularly, but that's not my experience.

Also, our standards, don't match any other Emergency Agency standards... be they FEMA's or the West Dogpatch, KY Civil Defense Team's.

So, if we don't meet anyone's standards to do a basic ground search and no one is calling us to help search the ground to begin with, why are we still training people it on an obsolete, 20+ year old, evaluation system?

It's like asking why we issue EMS and Medical Badges and require Basic GMT to take First Aid/CPR training but forbid anyone from doing any medical response tasks. So, what's the point?

We're basically irrelevant in most county and state emergency response plans except in some small areas where we have aircraft and they don't, but as drones get cheaper and easier to use, those areas will dry up too.

Our bread and butter is the cadet program, and to a certain extent aerospace education, and soon that's all we'll be.

Quote from: NIN on Yesterday at 11:56:55 PMSpeedy, you're talking my lingo.

Unfortunately for Vanguard, they have no access to the DLATs "issue" grade shirts and instead have to resell the "commerical upgrade" shirts (ie. Brooks Brothers) that are also sold thru AAFES. And they have a markup, because, you know, they're a business and do need to make a profit.  They don't buy as many shirts as AAFES, so they don't get the super good discount from the vendor to pass along.

This is a long time, ongoing issue as BRAC was a thing and USAF bases disappeared in states. Suddenly its hundreds of miles instead of dozens of miles to get to an AAFES. Even if you can get on base.

Well, the Coast Guard, and the Coast Guard Auxiliary seemed to have figured it out. Now their version of the AAFES, the Uniform Distrobusion Center, will accept orders directly from an Auxiliarist and ship straight to their home of record, and you never have to set foot on a base.

You just have to be a currently serving Auxiliarist with an active "Employee Identification Number", the USCGAux's version of the CAPID and off you go. You can order and pay for any uniform item authorized for use by the USCGAux. Clearly, they won't let you buy a set of 4-Star USCG Admiral's Shoulder Boards, but standard uniforms, boots, shoes, etc. you can buy all day.

Something similar should be able to be set up with AAFES. Again, that word, hard, but not impossible.

As promised...my question to the CAPTalk masses!

A bit of context: a few years ago, during the pandemic but before I joined, my squadron was well below minimum manning requirements to even be considered a flight. Since then, we've grown to become a relatively well-thriving composite squadron, especially when it comes to cadet recruiting.

The thing is, we have way too many senior members with their hands in the cadet programs cookie jar, and a non-existent senior member operation. The "search" option tells me we're not the only ones with this issue, at least historically. My squadron commander and I talked about this, and we'd love to see this changed. We're working to restart ES, which fell off during the pandemic, and I'm also cheerleading communications. I'd also love, love, LOVE to see some NCO's get in. Those are a couple of steps, but the plan is to poll the seniors and get their thoughts on rebuilding the senior side. I figured I'd pose the same question here--what thoughts do you all have?

Howdy! VERY long time lurker, first time poster. I joined CAP in 2021, and before that did seven years in the Navy (2001-2008), where I reached the exalted rank of petty officer second class, and five years in "that other auxiliary", AKA the Coast Guard Auxiliary (2011-2016), where I was twice elected to the exalted position of flotilla commander. I actually thoroughly enjoyed the CGAux, but aviation was always a bigger interest (I'm an old F-14 guy...if you call 41 "old"), so when I was ready to get back in the game after stepping aside to finish college, I joined CAP instead.

Here in CAP Land, I'm a first lieutenant, and a deputy group commander/squadron communications officer in Indiana Wing. Outside of CAP, I work for the Department of Veterans Affairs as a security assistant/dispatcher with VA Police Service. My wife's also a CAP member as well. And finally, I like pina coladas, and getting caught in the rain.

I figured I'd better introduce myself, because as soon as I hit "post" here I'm going to hit "post" on a question I want to pose to the CAPTalk masses. And no, it doesn't have anything to do with OCP's 

Have a great evening!

Quote from: ProdigalJim on Yesterday at 10:11:06 PMJust as a reference point when we talk about affordability and accessibility of uniform items in relation to this potential change...I did a search using current prices. Vanguard black boots today are as much as $20 more than DLATS boots. And ABUs are increasingly hard to find commercially anywhere *except* Vanguard.

<snippage happens here>

Speedy, you're talking my lingo.

Unfortunately for Vanguard, they have no access to the DLATs "issue" grade shirts and instead have to resell the "commerical upgrade" shirts (ie. Brooks Brothers) that are also sold thru AAFES. And they have a markup, because, you know, they're a business and do need to make a profit.  They don't buy as many shirts as AAFES, so they don't get the super good discount from the vendor to pass along.

This is a long time, ongoing issue as BRAC was a thing and USAF bases disappeared in states. Suddenly its hundreds of miles instead of dozens of miles to get to an AAFES. Even if you can get on base.

Quote from: ProdigalJim on Yesterday at 10:11:06 PMJust as a reference point when we talk about affordability and accessibility of uniform items in relation to this potential change...I did a search using current prices. Vanguard black boots today are as much as $20 more than DLATS boots. And ABUs are increasingly hard to find commercially anywhere *except* Vanguard.

A complete male OCP uniform, using DLATS components from AAFES, would cost $292.47. A complete Vanguard ABU uniform today is $346.30. If you go to commercial sources for OCPs, it's considerably more expensive than AAFES (which is unsurprising): $69.99 for the shirt/coat, and $69.99 for the pants, compared with $41.91 for the AAFES male shirt/coat and $39.49 for the female shirt/coat. If you choose Vanguard for all the components of your golf shirt uniform (shirt, pants, black fleece for cold weather, and boots), that's roughly $51 cheaper than a full ABU kit, but not exactly cheap at $295.35.

Although this thread is about OCPs, it's worth talking about prices on other uniforms. Where it really gets breathtaking is when buying USAF-style blues. Vanguard wants $64.80 for the long-sleeved uniform shirt, versus $28.75 for the DLATS version at AAFES. You can go out and buy them commercially for $49.99 (still $14.81 cheaper than Vanguard). Female blues trousers are $37.00 through AAFES and $66.30 through Vanguard. Commercially I found them for $49.99.

Blues covers are also much more expensive, although here Vanguard beats other online commercial sources. AAFES will sell me a flight cap for $13.75; the same item on Vanguard is $10.10 more at $23.85, and $29.99 commercially.

That simple blue web belt with a silver buckle? AAFES wants $4.18 -- Vanguard is close to six times more expensive, at $25. Commercially that same belt is $19.19.

Overall, Vanguard's USAF Blues Uniform for males is $98.33 more than you could get at AAFES, and for females Vanguard is $109.01 more than AAFES. Compared with commercially available blues components, Vanguard beats other suppliers for male uniforms -- by $42.75 for a full kit with a short-sleeved shirt, and by $36.15 for a long-sleeved version -- but commercial suppliers other than Vanguard are better for female blues uniforms, with Vanguard $20.65 more than commercial for a complete female set with short sleeves.

My takeaways from shopping day today? 1 - If we had decent, non-roadblocked access to AAFES, OCPs would be as much as $53.83 cheaper than the present Vanguard-only ABU uniform for a full set, and Blues would be about $100 cheaper depending on gender, and; 2 - our leadership really should work much harder on knocking down the barriers to members using AAFES to buy appropriate uniform items. (And I'm uninterested in all the reasons why it's hard. Yes, it's hard. I know it's hard. And I know all the reasons why it's hard. So what? It's not impossible, just hard.)

Thank you, Sir!!!!

Just as a reference point when we talk about affordability and accessibility of uniform items in relation to this potential change...I did a search using current prices. Vanguard black boots today are as much as $20 more than DLATS boots. And ABUs are increasingly hard to find commercially anywhere *except* Vanguard.

A complete male OCP uniform, using DLATS components from AAFES, would cost $292.47. A complete Vanguard ABU uniform today is $346.30. If you go to commercial sources for OCPs, it's considerably more expensive than AAFES (which is unsurprising): $69.99 for the shirt/coat, and $69.99 for the pants, compared with $41.91 for the AAFES male shirt/coat and $39.49 for the female shirt/coat. If you choose Vanguard for all the components of your golf shirt uniform (shirt, pants, black fleece for cold weather, and boots), that's roughly $51 cheaper than a full ABU kit, but not exactly cheap at $295.35.

Although this thread is about OCPs, it's worth talking about prices on other uniforms. Where it really gets breathtaking is when buying USAF-style blues. Vanguard wants $64.80 for the long-sleeved uniform shirt, versus $28.75 for the DLATS version at AAFES. You can go out and buy them commercially for $49.99 (still $14.81 cheaper than Vanguard). Female blues trousers are $37.00 through AAFES and $66.30 through Vanguard. Commercially I found them for $49.99.

Blues covers are also much more expensive, although here Vanguard beats other online commercial sources. AAFES will sell me a flight cap for $13.75; the same item on Vanguard is $10.10 more at $23.85, and $29.99 commercially.

That simple blue web belt with a silver buckle? AAFES wants $4.18 -- Vanguard is close to six times more expensive, at $25. Commercially that same belt is $19.19.

Overall, Vanguard's USAF Blues Uniform for males is $98.33 more than you could get at AAFES, and for females Vanguard is $109.01 more than AAFES. Compared with commercially available blues components, Vanguard beats other suppliers for male uniforms -- by $42.75 for a full kit with a short-sleeved shirt, and by $36.15 for a long-sleeved version -- but commercial suppliers other than Vanguard are better for female blues uniforms, with Vanguard $20.65 more than commercial for a complete female set with short sleeves.

My takeaways from shopping day today? 1 - If we had decent, non-roadblocked access to AAFES, OCPs would be as much as $53.83 cheaper than the present Vanguard-only ABU uniform for a full set, and Blues would be about $100 cheaper depending on gender, and; 2 - our leadership really should work much harder on knocking down the barriers to members using AAFES to buy appropriate uniform items. (And I'm uninterested in all the reasons why it's hard. Yes, it's hard. I know it's hard. And I know all the reasons why it's hard. So what? It's not impossible, just hard.)