January 24, 2021, 07:41:23 pm

Covid-19 remobilization updates

Started by NovemberWhiskey, November 12, 2020, 12:22:55 pm

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Holding Pattern

Quote from: Eclipse on December 01, 2020, 04:16:28 pm
Quote from: Holding Pattern on December 01, 2020, 03:55:24 pmYes, TX is far harder hit than say, WA or ID. Extrapolating from your situation to every other state's situation is the opposite of science. Which is why CAP has guidelines per state instead of one national on/off switch.

Literally the opposite of what the data actually says.

TX case fatality rate as of Nov 21 when I last crunched numbers: Total cases 1,072,698; deaths per 100k 70.7, 7 day average deaths per 100k .5

WA case fatality rate as of Nov 21: Total cases 139,543; deaths per 100k 34.8, 7 day average deaths per 100k .2

If you're going to say that what I'm saying is the opposite of what I'm saying you can have the courtesy to pull your own data and demonstrate how that is the case.

Eclipse

Click the link provide it and read it.

Idaho is #19, TX is 36th, WA is just behind TX at 38th with essentially the same numbers.



Holding Pattern

Quote from: Eclipse on December 01, 2020, 03:32:08 pm
Quote from: Holding Pattern on December 01, 2020, 02:57:06 pmIf you believe the regs are being violated you can let CAP/IG know.

Thanks for that tip - you know very well what I am referring to. No one said
that in this specific case there were regulatory issues (though common sense and
adherence to Covid policies seems to be somewhat "optional" for some people).


My mistake for taking you at your word when you said:

QuoteCAP does what it does, and has struggled for 20 years because instead of focusing on its core strengths
and mission mandates, it's constantly trying to "get in the game" by ignoring its own regulations and
running towards the shiny (usually several years after the shiny showed up).

And no, I don't know very well what you are referring to.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Eclipse on December 01, 2020, 04:34:56 pmClick the link provide it and read it.

Idaho is #19, TX is 36th, WA is just behind TX at 38th with essentially the same numbers.

The data NOW, as in the situation on the ground NOW, not the overall numbers.

If you aren't using 7, 14, and 30 day rolling numbers and letting march numbers dictate your planning still, you are analyzing the risk incorrectly.

Fubar

Quote from: Holding Pattern on December 01, 2020, 04:41:21 pmIf you aren't using 7, 14, and 30 day rolling numbers and letting march numbers dictate your planning still, you are analyzing the risk incorrectly.

Agreed. Also if anyone is only using the death rate to determine how we should be reacting to this virus, they are missing several other important aspects such as ICU utilization, long term damage (heart/lungs/cognitive) that's occurring to patients, and the responsibility we have to not pass the virus onto others.

TheSkyHornet

Is this really within the scope of this forum, or are we straying away from CAP as a general talking point to make COVID-19 itself the talking points?

I motion that we resume civility and return to discussing CAP as our topic and not the general spread of communicable illness.

I think some valid points have been made throughout this thread so far, particularly that there are concerns over CAP's missions and involvement in ES-related/ES-marketed activities. It has also been brought up that there are concerns over NHQ's handling and/or oversight of the Remobilization plan(s) for each Wing. These are all things that are within our membership (and, for some of us, staff) abilities to influence. Let's return to discussing those and not how we want to impact our hospitals or economic infrastructure.

I'll be the guy to invoke mods here.

jeders

Agreed.

If anyone has any further comments about Covid itself and the data, you can take them to PM or a medical/scientific forum. Let us keep the discussion limited to what CAP is doing and how to do it in the safest and most effective manner possible.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

CAP9907

Quote from: jeders on December 01, 2020, 08:59:00 pmLet us keep the discussion limited to what CAP is doing and how to do it in the safest and most effective manner possible.

Yup, this.
21 yrs of service

Our Members Code of Conduct can be found here:   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=13.0

NovemberWhiskey

I tend to agree that CAP is quite ill-prepared for some of the missions, like food distribution to the public, that I've seen during the pandemic. Overall, for ESF #6, CAP doesn't seem to provide much other than bodies and an unwieldy parallel command structure.

We don't have any kind of organized/formal point-of-distribution or shelter operations training curriculum, we don't have any training for responders who will be facing the public (e.g. DAFN, psychological first aid) and so on. The average CERT team is probably significantly more appropriately skilled for these kinds of tasking than CAP; never mind the American Red Cross.

If we genuinely have aspirations to be serious in this space, then what is happening right now is probably not the way to do it.

baronet68

Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on December 02, 2020, 03:03:06 amWe don't have any kind of organized/formal point-of-distribution or shelter operations training curriculum...

There is an ES qualification for PODC (IS-26 Point of Distribution Course) available on the 101 card.  While the training is very basic and largely video-based, the curriculum is provided by FEMA and seems very effective for providing a functional understanding of how PODs work.  Seems pretty "organized/formal" to me.  What else would be necessary?

Michael Moore, Maj, CAP
National Recruiting & Retention Manager

Holding Pattern

Quote from: baronet68 on December 02, 2020, 08:48:29 am
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on December 02, 2020, 03:03:06 amWe don't have any kind of organized/formal point-of-distribution or shelter operations training curriculum...

There is an ES qualification for PODC (IS-26 Point of Distribution Course) available on the 101 card.  While the training is very basic and largely video-based, the curriculum is provided by FEMA and seems very effective for providing a functional understanding of how PODs work.  Seems pretty "organized/formal" to me.  What else would be necessary?



Two sorties!

Though seriously, it should be trained to and practiced, just like every other qual.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on December 02, 2020, 03:03:06 amI tend to agree that CAP is quite ill-prepared for some of the missions, like food distribution to the public

The current system netted us nearly 1 million pounds of food distributed to the public.

I imagine a formalized training and advertisement of capability to local agencies would mean we could easily double that number for the next national crisis should this repeat itself.

In terms of mass care my locality got caught out when needing to stand up one shelter this year and CAP became the first responding volunteer agency for that.

Yeah, I picked up my jaw off the ground after that conversation too.

But it was made quite clear: The more CAP trains and advertises to local agencies, the more callouts we will get for POD work, Shelter work, and *dramatic gasp* SAR work!

jeders

Topic pruned of unhelpful arguing and associated posts. Asserting opinion as fact and then ignoring anyone who disagrees with you is not debating, it's being a little child. I know we can all act like adults (even if only for a minute).
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

SarDragon

On 3 December, INWG announced on Facebook that they earned the National Commander's Unit Citation for their collective service in support of COVID-19 relief.

The COVID Response mission was a Herculean effort. Over a period of 54 days, more than 600 members supported food banks, food pantries, a food kitchen, a school district, and 2 mega pantries (at Indy Motor Speedway and Indiana State Fairgrounds) packing and/or delivering almost 1.5 Million meals to Hoosiers. At the end of the mission, the ARNG was so impressed with CAP, that they included them on the poker chip coin they created.

On a different note, California Wing has been engaged in assisting our communities continuously in this COVID-19 pandemic since March 14 - over five months! California Wing has participated with other organizations in the distribution of over 2 million meals and has distributed over 580,000 on our own. The Salvation Army needed help to package and distribute food in El Cajon, Guatay and Campo.  Cadets and seniors from CAWG responded and helped package meal kits over three operational periods in May, June, July, August and September.  During the first monthly operational period meal kits were prepared. These kits were distributed on the second operational period in the towns of Guatay and Campo and on the third in El Cajon.  Each meal kit contains enough food for 3-6 meals. The CAWG response was tremendous: 63 members contributed 186 member-days across 14 operational periods and five months.

This mission is here. It's real, and it's happening.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

NovemberWhiskey

December 07, 2020, 12:54:41 pm #34 Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 01:37:43 pm by NovemberWhiskey
Quote from: baronet68 on December 02, 2020, 08:48:29 amThere is an ES qualification for PODC (IS-26 Point of Distribution Course) available on the 101 card.  While the training is very basic and largely video-based, the curriculum is provided by FEMA and seems very effective for providing a functional understanding of how PODs work.  Seems pretty "organized/formal" to me.  What else would be necessary?

It's a FEMA independent study course, with no practical assessment component, which results in a qualification that never expires. On the contrary, to me, that seems about as close to a fig-leaf as you can get. Compare the most basic, low-risk mission-base staff training requirements; e.g. Mission Staff Assistant. Also, I have never even seen this mission be part of a training exercise - although there may well be some other units that do train.

I am not disputing 'CAP volunteers turn out in droves to move and hand out food packages'. The question is whether CAP brings anything other than ample volunteer spirit and the ability to lift boxes.

Does CAP run these PODs, or are they run by another agency? Does CAP organize the logistics associated with the PODs, or is this organized by another agency?

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on December 07, 2020, 12:54:41 pmThe question is whether CAP brings anything other than ample volunteer spirit and the ability to lift boxes.

Does CAP run these PODs, or are they run by another agency? Does CAP organize the logistics associated with the PODs, or is this organized by another agency?

We got into this discussion with our unit one time: "How do we get involved in community service projects such as this?"

The response returned was that we need to be active/qualified Ground Team members and be assigned to the mission.

Meanwhile, we could literally, in a non-CAP capacity, email the project office and volunteer our personal time and ability without any qualifications. We just need to register and be on time.

Interesting how that works based on the accountability it falls under.

Eclipse

Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on December 07, 2020, 12:54:41 pmThe question is whether CAP brings anything other than ample volunteer spirit and the ability to lift boxes.

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on December 07, 2020, 04:55:31 pmMeanwhile, we could literally, in a non-CAP capacity, email the project office and volunteer our personal time and ability without any qualifications. We just need to register and be on time.

Where have I heard someone say something like this before?



NovemberWhiskey

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on December 07, 2020, 04:55:31 pmWe got into this discussion with our unit one time: "How do we get involved in community service projects such as this?"

The response returned was that we need to be active/qualified Ground Team members and be assigned to the mission.

Well, that would certainly be one reading of CAPR 60-3: all deployment of CAP personnel away from a mission base is a 'sortie' and sorties are either 'air sorties' or 'ground sorties'. Ground sorties have to include minimum staffing levels of GTM/UDF/CERT qualified or trainees with appropriate GTL for GTM and supervisors for trainees; the sorties should be briefed, recorded on CAPF 109, logged etc. etc.

TheSkyHornet

December 07, 2020, 08:01:46 pm #38 Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 08:05:09 pm by TheSkyHornet
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on December 07, 2020, 06:12:12 pm
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on December 07, 2020, 04:55:31 pmWe got into this discussion with our unit one time: "How do we get involved in community service projects such as this?"

The response returned was that we need to be active/qualified Ground Team members and be assigned to the mission.

Well, that would certainly be one reading of CAPR 60-3: all deployment of CAP personnel away from a mission base is a 'sortie' and sorties are either 'air sorties' or 'ground sorties'. Ground sorties have to include minimum staffing levels of GTM/UDF/CERT qualified or trainees with appropriate GTL for GTM and supervisors for trainees; the sorties should be briefed, recorded on CAPF 109, logged etc. etc.

But, we could literally, as a squadron, volunteer as an activity.

I know of missions where it's a local request, not an Air force, DHS, or State EMA mission. But it gets routed through channels that turns it into a CAP sortie. Once it's a sortie, it needs to have CAP/ES quals.

As a squadron, we could coordinate with the same requesting agency and volunteer to assist, just like helping the local VFW, Wreaths Across America, or other volunteer group performing a service function in the community. We collect and retire Flags as a squadron. It's literally no different.

Delivering 30 boxes of meals and MREs at the local food clinic or school shouldn't be a "mission" or a qualification-required activity. It shouldn't take GES, first aid training, map reading, rope-tying, and related classes to hand out boxes of toilet paper. And I often hear the response: "This is a great opportunity to get qualified." I think it's a ridiculous reason to get qualified. I'll go do it outside of CAP if I have to, and I'll encourage others to do the same and count that toward their Community Service Ribbon.

Cut the bureaucratic red tape for things that are not lifesaving/SAR/counter-drug.

Eclipse

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on December 07, 2020, 08:01:46 pmDelivering 30 boxes of meals and MREs at the local food clinic or school shouldn't be a "mission" or a qualification-required activity. It shouldn't take GES, first aid training, map reading, rope-tying, and related classes to hand out boxes of toilet paper. And I often hear the response: "This is a great opportunity to get qualified." I think it's a ridiculous reason to get qualified. I'll go do it outside of CAP if I have to, and I'll encourage others to do the same and count that toward their Community Service Ribbon.

((*SHACK*))