March 04, 2021, 02:19:16 am

Covid-19 remobilization updates

Started by NovemberWhiskey, November 12, 2020, 12:22:55 pm

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

NovemberWhiskey

For those that may not have been paying particularly close attention: NHQ has recently been making much more frequent updates to the remobilization page on gocivilairpatrol.com.

It now shows multiple wings having reverted to phase 1 or phase 0 and includes updates up to 11/9.

baronet68

Anyone notice that the CovidActNow website has updated? 

With most of the country in-the-red, they added a 5th color (a new darker red) to show where things are growing even worse.
Michael Moore, Maj, CAP
National Recruiting & Retention Manager

JohhnyD

In March I knew not one person who had the CCP virus. Now many, many people in my neighborhood, at work, among customers and people at Church and in my unit have had it, survived and are fine. It is approaching herd saturation. The mortality rate has dropped 85% since March. Time to open back up again.

Fubar

Quote from: baronet68 on November 30, 2020, 10:08:15 pmWith most of the country in-the-red, they added a 5th color (a new darker red) to show where things are growing even worse.

We still have many squadrons throughout the country meeting in person in those red and super-red areas. It would seem CAP is no longer worried about such things, the pandemic has reached the same peak that started this pandemic when NHQ put out the full stop. This time, not so much.

Eclipse

December 01, 2020, 04:38:41 am #4 Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 04:57:10 am by Eclipse
Quote from: Fubar on December 01, 2020, 04:09:22 am
Quote from: baronet68 on November 30, 2020, 10:08:15 pmWith most of the country in-the-red, they added a 5th color (a new darker red) to show where things are growing even worse.

We still have many squadrons throughout the country meeting in person in those red and super-red areas. It would seem CAP is no longer worried about such things, the pandemic has reached the same peak that started this pandemic when NHQ put out the full stop. This time, not so much.

I think in many areas it's worse, but thanks to the holidays and pandemic fatigue, not to mention a
bunch of unrelated political and conspiracy issues, people are just ignoring it, or barely complying.

CAP needs to be back to a 100% all stop, virtual-only country-wide, and we don't need to be involved
in these outreach missions that look good on the streams but amount to little but unnecessary risk
for the members and the organization.

Anyone who wants to help hand out food, etc., can do it without the uniform or hassle of authorization,
and in fact can do it better and easier.

But that doesn't get the clicks or a battle streamer.

How on earth CAP could have flown more sorties for Covid then Deep Water Horizon is beyond me.



JohhnyD

Wow, science has died. Fear rules America. Amazing.

Fubar

Quote from: Eclipse on December 01, 2020, 04:38:41 amHow on earth CAP could have flown more sorties for Covid then Deep Water Horizon is beyond me.

Well, there certainly is a difference in the essential nature of say, moving COVID samples from A to B compared to having an in-person meeting because cadets are bored of Zoom. Just like public safety and the medical profession are doing the best they can at risk mitigation, certain tasks just have to be accomplished and we are extraordinarily fortunate that there are people willing to serve in these roles. Of course those professions are taking a beating at the hands of this virus, both in terms of death (which is measured) and long-term damage to pulmonary, cardiac, and cognitive systems (which is not measured). If CAP volunteers are willing to assume that risk to perform an "essential" service, then I do have less heart burn about it (provided all precautions are actually followed and not just when someone whips a camera out).

Admittedly the task does matter and reasonable people can disagree on what tasks are actually essential and which aren't. The flying missions have all stopped anyway thanks to the FAA waiver snafu.

NovemberWhiskey

Quote from: JohhnyD on December 01, 2020, 07:23:36 amWow, science has died. Fear rules America. Amazing.

As you're obviously not a scientist, let me give you a few clues. Anecdote is not data. Herd immunity for SARS-CoV-2 is a dangerous fallacy unsupported by scientific evidence. Your attitudes are hazardous; knock it off.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Eclipse on December 01, 2020, 04:38:41 amAnyone who wants to help hand out food, etc., can do it without the uniform or hassle of authorization,
and in fact can do it better and easier.


How does the simple act of putting on a CAP uniform and following safety protocols and RM make CAP worse and harder?

If it is safe for other non-profits to do this, it is safe for us to do this.

If our advice is to tell CAP members to help, just not as CAP members, then you are holding our ES mission to be a lie.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on December 01, 2020, 01:23:52 pm
Quote from: JohhnyD on December 01, 2020, 07:23:36 amWow, science has died. Fear rules America. Amazing.

As you're obviously not a scientist, let me give you a few clues. Anecdote is not data. Herd immunity for SARS-CoV-2 is a dangerous fallacy unsupported by scientific evidence. Your attitudes are hazardous; knock it off.


https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailytrendsdeaths

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailytrendscases

You don't have to be a scientist to be able to look at these two graphs and see that based on the data, this virus isn't nearly as threatening to look at as it was back in March.

The most dangerous thing to do in this pandemic is to go to the grocery store at this point.

The second most dangerous thing is to stay at home and be sedentary.

Eclipse

December 01, 2020, 02:12:53 pm #10 Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 02:19:11 pm by Eclipse
Food banks and shelters are not part of CAP's mission, the PPE delivery is just...odd...,
but at least the small number of aircrew sample deliveries fits somewhat within the mandate,
assuming there was no other, better means. It's simply not what CAP "does", and if they were to become
the primary "ES" mission (especially the first two), the current drop in member numbers would look  like a recruiting push.

A CAP member who wishes to work at a food bank has to sign up through CAP,
an IC has to be assigned, they need to be in uniform, and there are any
number of other rules, regs, and policies to follow - no adult member present? No CAP cadets.

Any CAP member who wishes to work at that same food bank may do so absent the
organization, any time, and for any duration.  They can even get Community Service Hours!

See how that works?

As to ES being a "lie", you said that, I didn't.

CAP does what it does, and has struggled for 20 years because instead of focusing on its core strengths
and mission mandates, it's constantly trying to "get in the game" by ignoring its own regulations and
running towards the shiny (usually several years after the shiny showed up).



TheSkyHornet

Unconfirmed gouge, but my understanding is that NHQ has become far more lenient on reverting to previous phases, and just because a state goes red no longer means rolling back anymore. It's now incumbent upon the states/wings to make that decision in consensus with NHQ and Region., but it's no longer an automatic reversion.

As far as the community support missions and food distribution, I have seen this on several accounts, and all of those near me were out of compliance with Remobilization precautions/protocols anyway.

Pace

I'm one of the insiders that sees the admissions, clinical course, morbidity, and mortality on the ground, and I can tell you this is unlike any pathogen the US has dealt with in my short life-time. My hospital in rural Texas has never seen the dealth toll we are seeing with COVID. I have no interest in debating these issues anymore because frankly it's a waste of my time that I do not have.

Formal warning. The majority of the scientific community worldwide and in the US cannot stress the risk with this virus enough. Take the conspiracy theories and politics elsewhere.
Lt Col, CAP

Capt Thompson

Quote from: Pace on December 01, 2020, 02:21:32 pmMy hospital in rural Texas has never seen the dealth toll we are seeing with COVID. I have no interest in debating these issues anymore because frankly it's a waste of my time that I do not have.
This^^^

My wife's hospital just brought in another refrigerator trailer, as the morgue is once again over capacity. The look on her face and the pure exhaustion I see every night when she gets home tells me all I need to know.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Eclipse on December 01, 2020, 02:12:53 pmFood banks and shelters are not part of CAP's mission, the PPE delivery is just...odd...,
but at least the small number of aircrew sample deliveries fits somewhat within the mandate,
assuming there was no other, better means. It's simply not what CAP "does", and if they were to become
the primary "ES" mission (especially the first two), the current drop in member numbers would look  like a recruiting push.

Those all fell under the ES umbrella. You can't argue that supporting a presidentially declared disaster isn't an ES mission.

The fact that it is different than our ES mission 20 or 50 years ago doesn't change the fact that Mass Care is in the National Response Plan for a reason as a core capability TODAY.
QuoteA CAP member who wishes to work at a food bank has to sign up through CAP,
an IC has to be assigned, they need to be in uniform, and there are any
number of other rules, regs, and policies to follow - no adult member present? No CAP cadets.

Any CAP member who wishes to work at that same food bank may do so absent the
organization, any time, and for any duration.  They can even get Community Service Hours!

See how that works?

So why is that a problem?
QuoteAs to ES being a "lie", you said that, I didn't.
Your statements allude to it.

QuoteCAP does what it does, and has struggled for 20 years because instead of focusing on its core strengths
and mission mandates, it's constantly trying to "get in the game" by ignoring its own regulations and
running towards the shiny (usually several years after the shiny showed up).

CAP has done more this year than it has ever before in the ES field and it has not ignored its own regulations to do so.

If you believe the regs are being violated you can let CAP/IG know.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Pace on December 01, 2020, 02:21:32 pmI'm one of the insiders that sees the admissions, clinical course, morbidity, and mortality on the ground, and I can tell you this is unlike any pathogen the US has dealt with in my short life-time. My hospital in rural Texas has never seen the dealth toll we are seeing with COVID. I have no interest in debating these issues anymore because frankly it's a waste of my time that I do not have.

Formal warning. The majority of the scientific community worldwide and in the US cannot stress the risk with this virus enough. Take the conspiracy theories and politics elsewhere.

If you are delivering a formal warning, in the interests of clarity can you call out the specific posts that are a problem? Just want to know if linking to the CDC data is considered a "conspiracy theory."

Eclipse

Quote from: Holding Pattern on December 01, 2020, 02:57:06 pmThose all fell under the ES umbrella. You can't argue that supporting a presidentially declared disaster isn't an ES mission.

I can and do.  It's not CAP's lane, it's "get in the game itis". CAP brings nothing to the table in this regard except for a contact list and makes it harder for members to provide support.  There is no need for organizational involvement.

Quote from: Holding Pattern on December 01, 2020, 02:57:06 pmCAP has done more this year than it has ever before in the ES field...
Keep telling yourself that - it looks great in the social streams and the Volunteer.


Quote from: Holding Pattern on December 01, 2020, 02:57:06 pmIf you believe the regs are being violated you can let CAP/IG know.

Thanks for that tip - you know very well what I am referring to. No one said
that in this specific case there were regulatory issues (though common sense and
adherence to Covid policies seems to be somewhat "optional" for some people).

One need only look to any of the myriad DR incidents with slick-sleeve members
working in legit disaster areas to see plenty of places CAP ignores its
not insubstantial training, safety, and ORM protocols and regs just to "get in the game".



jeders

Quote from: Holding Pattern on December 01, 2020, 03:20:58 pmIf you are delivering a formal warning, in the interests of clarity can you call out the specific posts that are a problem? Just want to know if linking to the CDC data is considered a "conspiracy theory."

Your post was not the most offending post, that honor belongs to JohnnyD; however, posting data without any appropriate analysis is dangerous. But to bring it back to reality, the data you posted shows that the Covid-19 pandemic is still going strong and is every bit as dangerous as it was in March, and in some areas much, much, much worse. For instance, it wasn't until summer that, prisons aside, we had more than about 100 total cases locally, we now have over 1,000 ACTIVE cases.

Is posting CDC data politics or conspiracy theory, no. Is posting CDC data and then claiming that the data says the opposite of what it actually says, yes.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Holding Pattern

Quote from: jeders on December 01, 2020, 03:38:30 pm
Quote from: Holding Pattern on December 01, 2020, 03:20:58 pmIf you are delivering a formal warning, in the interests of clarity can you call out the specific posts that are a problem? Just want to know if linking to the CDC data is considered a "conspiracy theory."

Your post was not the most offending post, that honor belongs to JohnnyD; however, posting data without any appropriate analysis is dangerous. But to bring it back to reality, the data you posted shows that the Covid-19 pandemic is still going strong and is every bit as dangerous as it was in March, and in some areas much, much, much worse. For instance, it wasn't until summer that, prisons aside, we had more than about 100 total cases locally, we now have over 1,000 ACTIVE cases.

That isn't what the data says at all. If we have several times the number of positive cases from March and similar absolute death numbers from March, the death RATE is clearly lower today than it was in March...
QuoteIs posting CDC data politics or conspiracy theory, no. Is posting CDC data and then claiming that the data says the opposite of what it actually says, yes.

Well, you just did that. You also led with your "insider information" which is a fancier way of saying your anecdotal situation "on the ground" which is not representative of the country as a whole.

Yes, TX is far harder hit than say, WA or ID. Extrapolating from your situation to every other state's situation is the opposite of science. Which is why CAP has guidelines per state instead of one national on/off switch.

Eclipse

Quote from: Holding Pattern on December 01, 2020, 03:55:24 pmYes, TX is far harder hit than say, WA or ID. Extrapolating from your situation to every other state's situation is the opposite of science. Which is why CAP has guidelines per state instead of one national on/off switch.

Literally the opposite of what the data actually says.