February 22, 2020, 04:18:25 pm

Professional Development Changing Again

Started by culpeper, January 31, 2020, 02:53:40 pm

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culpeper

Got word via Wing that PD standards are changing this mid year.  Looks like SLS, CLC, and NSC will be gone.  Legacy level completion will expire early 2021.

Personally, I hope it is a compromise between the previous and current requirements.  I appear to be the only working Senior in my squadron  that is actually going through the motions.  18 months in CAP and only need a couple of conferences to complete Level III.  All my peers have completed nothing towards Level II.  Is there something wrong with the current PD structure that scares new members.  I've been told people have a tendency to fear taking a test but almost every test I have taken, no matter what it applies to, has been open book. 

kcebnaes

Honestly, from what I've heard, we're in for something MUCH better, and much more accessible to members who can't spend a week in a different city or state for courses like Region Staff College or National Staff College. It looks like everything will be offered online now (from Levels 1-5.) Also, it's going modular now, meaning that each level is going to have top complete a series of classes now, instead of one massive one. Looking through the material, it's really well balanced.
Sean Beck, Maj, CAP
Ohio Wing, Group 6 Commander
Various Other Things™

dwb

The Leadership Development Working Group (LDWG) has been churning for a while now on a re-imagined PD program. Frankly we're overdue for such an overhaul. I don't know exactly what the new product will look like, but I would be cautiously optimistic rather than worried. And I am normally a worrier.

Maj Gen Smith has talked at length about how he views leadership in the Civil Air Patrol, and if the new PD program is being developed under his tutelage, I think we have reason to be excited for the results.

Майор Хаткевич

RSC and NSC as non-residence will mean people like me could actually get Lvl4-5 done.

kcebnaes

Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on January 31, 2020, 04:28:03 pmRSC and NSC as non-residence will mean people like me could actually get Lvl4-5 done.

Yep! My thoughts too!
Sean Beck, Maj, CAP
Ohio Wing, Group 6 Commander
Various Other Things™

Larry Mangum

January 31, 2020, 04:31:19 pm #5 Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 04:43:18 pm by Larry Mangum
Online training is great for those who cannot travel, but not attending courses in-person, takes away a lot of what made those classes valuable.  Why, because you don't get to network with your peers from other unit's, both at the local level but also at the regional and national level. An that is an important aspect of the courses that is often overlooked.

Think about it, you got o an SLS or CLC and you find out that your unit is not the only experiencing a problem either implementing the newest changes to the cadet program for example, This starts a discussion on the issue and you hear other members explain how they tackled the issue and the trials and pitfalls they have run into. Then you go back to your unit, and using what you learned from the discussion resolve the issue.

Can you use a chat session to do the same thing. Yes and No, as we need to remember that something like 85% of all communication is non-verbal. Can you do it at Wing Conference break-out session? Maybe, but you re going to get t mot if you are lucky a two hour window to discuss an issue, rather a weekend over dinner and lunch along with classroom time.

Certainly, the material can be improved upon, heck when can material not be improved upon. I joined CAP in January of 1996, and PD material no longer resembles  what it did back then. In many was it has been improved and in other ways, I think it has regressed. My point here is that change is constant, but we still need that interaction, that allows us to build relationships and networks of people we can reach out to for ideas and help.

Just my two-cents.
Larry Mangum, Lt Col CAP
SWR-SWR-001

THRAWN

Quote from: Larry Mangum on January 31, 2020, 04:31:19 pmOnline training is great for those who cannot travel, but not attending courses in-person, takes away a lot of what made those classes valuable. 

Funny how the DoD and most colleges seem to find a way to cope...
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016

PHall

Yeah, the Guard and the Reserves have been using Distance Learning for a number of years now with pretty good success.

NEBoom

Quote from: THRAWN on January 31, 2020, 05:12:52 pm
Quote from: Larry Mangum on January 31, 2020, 04:31:19 pmOnline training is great for those who cannot travel, but not attending courses in-person, takes away a lot of what made those classes valuable.

Funny how the DoD and most colleges seem to find a way to cope...

Larry,
I had thought the same thing, but then I took a degree program from a local University all on-line (which even included group projects).  I didn't know what to expect from it, but while the interaction with my peers was very different from a face-to-face class, it was still effective.

If it is set up so that you take the classes as a cohort with other on-line students, it will work out fine.  If it's strictly self-study format though, then you would be correct that you would lose that interaction.

I for one am looking forward to this.  NSC has been out of reach so this should open a door for me to finally complete L V!
Lt Col Dan Kirwan, CAP
Nebraska Wing

arajca

I wonder if those of us who completed SLS, CLC, etc back the overhead projector days will be able to take these new versions...

Eclipse

Quote from: arajca on January 31, 2020, 09:48:58 pmI wonder if those of us who completed SLS, CLC, etc back the overhead projector days will be able to take these new versions...

It appears the answer is "no".

I did RSC in 2009, which apparently was GLR-RSC of the "old" curriculum, and it still involved
an overhead (somewhat inexplicably as they had PC projectors), and that was over ten years ago.

The "new" version of SLS/CLC is something like 13 years old.  If you haven't gotten your
PD done in that time, you probably don't care.



Capt_Redfox30

Quote from: Eclipse on January 31, 2020, 10:00:46 pm
Quote from: arajca on January 31, 2020, 09:48:58 pmI wonder if those of us who completed SLS, CLC, etc back the overhead projector days will be able to take these new versions...

It appears the answer is "no".

I did RSC in 2009, which apparently was GLR-RSC of the "old" curriculum, and it still involved
an overhead (somewhat inexplicably as they had PC projectors), and that was over ten years ago.

The "new" version of SLS/CLC is something like 13 years old.  If you haven't gotten your
PD done in that time, you probably don't care.
Yes that was the most disorganized course I have ever been a part of, glad it was just a week!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Kirk Thirtyacre, Lt Col, CAP
(Acting) Group Commander
Group 3 HQ

Eclipse

Quote from: Capt_Redfox30 on January 31, 2020, 10:07:05 pmYes that was the most disorganized course I have ever been a part of, glad it was just a week!

Agreed, but you have to admit, that was "$1.00's worth of strange"!



NIN

Not only will the training change, but once you reach level 2 there will be different training tracks and qualifications based on certain experience.

CAP only: you go this way and jump through these flaming hoops with some potential equivalencies due to civilian experience.
Former Military: this is your track, with these flaming hoops, and these equivalencies based on your AFSC/MOS/rate.
Certain professions: here are your equivalencies based on degrees or certifications, and another set of flaming hoops to leap through.
Former cadet: here is what you get credit for, the hoops you get to avoid, and the ones you still have to jump through

I'm not explaining that 100% correctly, but there is basically a lot more weight being put on the experience you bring to the table by the time you get to level two.

If you were a logistics NCO in the military and you are going to do logistics in CAP you get some logical equivalencies to completion of the training levels in the specialty tracks, for example.

it's going to take into account a lot more of the practical realities surrounding our membership and the things they already know when they join us as a senior.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2020 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Capt_Redfox30

Very true.

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Kirk Thirtyacre, Lt Col, CAP
(Acting) Group Commander
Group 3 HQ

Eclipse

It will be "interesting" to see how objective qualifying will be done
for members who have real-world industry experience but didn't choose to
blow 100K on a piece of paper.



Spam

Quote from: Eclipse on January 31, 2020, 11:40:28 pmIt will be "interesting" to see how objective qualifying will be done
for members who have real-world industry experience but didn't choose to
blow 100K on a piece of paper.

You, ah, could have phrased that a little more politely.... "members who have real world industry experience but were unable to afford a college degree". Or similar.

I hear what you're saying but really, there's no need to attack college education and achievement, as an item, here (even when it bears little relevance to suitability for service in many CAP roles).

Since the thrust of your comment was regarding the objectivity of those who would review future equivalency claims, well, it sounds like maybe you should mod that post to include a "/SARC", if you meant it that way.
 

R/s
Spam

etodd

Will the new online courses be "open book" like the FEMA courses?  You have your choice with those, of really studying and learning the material, over days or weeks, and then taking the tests. Or, just opening two windows on your screen, materials in one and test on the other, using search, and knocking out each test in under two hours, and retaining none of it.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

February 01, 2020, 01:22:14 am #18 Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 01:31:13 am by Eclipse
Quote from: Spam on February 01, 2020, 12:10:31 am
Quote from: Eclipse on January 31, 2020, 11:40:28 pmIt will be "interesting" to see how objective qualifying will be done
for members who have real-world industry experience but didn't choose to
blow 100K on a piece of paper.

You, ah, could have phrased that a little more politely.... "members who have real world industry experience but were unable to afford a college degree". Or similar.

I hear what you're saying but really, there's no need to attack college education and achievement, as an item, here (even when it bears little relevance to suitability for service in many CAP roles).

Since the thrust of your comment was regarding the objectivity of those who would review future equivalency claims, well, it sounds like maybe you should mod that post to include a "/SARC", if you meant it that way.

Except I didn't mean it sarcastically.  For the vast majority of people, college is a spectacular waste of time and money which haunts them with debt during their best earning years.

AWC, SOS and ACSC,  have nothing to do with CAP anyway, so whatever, but increasingly CAP benefits and alternatives need big asterisks,
when what NHQ should have been doing was to provide relevent alternatives to in-residence PD.  One could conjecture that's the intent now,
after a decade or so of lost members and initiative.  I personally know several active and effective members who lost steam because between
their professional lives and their significant, multi-week commitments to actual CAP activities, in-residence stuff was a non-starter, and they
had been counting on the LDI stuff, then the rug was pulled and NHQ followed up with raising the bar, resulting in people parked at Capt or Maj
for what they perceived as permanently.

They saw their much less active peers, with either degrees in basket weaving or plenty of free time (because they don't do much of anything)
passing them up and said "ok, I'm out".



etodd

What "job" could I do in CAP as a Lt. Col. that I cannot do as a 1st Lt.?  I'm doing quite a bit, as you can see in my Sig.

Required for those who want to be a Wing Commander maybe? IDK
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot