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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: New DJI Mavic 2 Designed for Search and Rescue
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Author Topic: New DJI Mavic 2 Designed for Search and Rescue  (Read 2434 times)
xray328
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Posts: 608

« on: October 29, 2018, 10:37:09 AM »

Interesting...

https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/29/dji-mavic-2-enterprise-drone-search-rescue/

I heard a rumor we can't use it though, something about foreign parts and USAF funding?  Last I heard the $1999 is about half what we've spent on the drones being used at NESA.

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Eclipse
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Posts: 29,246

« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2018, 12:07:50 PM »

Last year there was a lot of FUD that the Army had concerns about the high-level
of Chinesium in DJI products that might make them susceptible to hacking, follow-up
studies should that to be BS.

In a CAP context, a unit with the cash would be fine buying one, but its usefulness
in SAR is debatable since the US still requires line-of-sight to the operator. Until that's
lifted, not much advantage over the aircraft CAP has and the Mark-I eyeball.

It might be able to get up and over areas hard to access due to canopy, etc., and
I've heard some compelling arguments about standing on a hill with binoculars to
maintain the L-O-S, but there are less expensive devices with the same capabilities
available at Walmart.
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xray328
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Posts: 608

« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2018, 12:42:24 PM »

Glad to hear the concern over the foreign parts is over.

I'm honestly not sure on the line of sight issues, but I'd think there has to be an FAA waiver available.   Certainly with commercial applications on the horizon (Amazon) there's ways around that.  The advantage here is cost, the ability to fly in conditions that would ground the CAP aircraft, and speed of deployment.  CAP aircraft also can't talk to the folks on the ground in need of rescue or drop emergency supplies.   CAP has already seen the need for and advantages of these, we're just falling behind the technology as usual.

Regarding the cheapo consumer drones, there's no comparison. From the article...

"The newbie can also be fitted with modular accessories that further boost its search and rescue capabilities. Add-ons include a spotlight with a brightness of 2,400 lumens, a loudspeaker for voice recording playback (not party jams), and a flashing strobe beacon for night-time or low-light missions (or to alert nearby aircraft of its presence).

An additional highlight is DJI's onboard AirSense tech: an integrated receiver that alerts drone pilots of ADS-B signals from nearby aircraft via the DJI Pilot mobile app in real-time. The company describes it as an "extra layer of protection" for operators who fly in congested airspace or near complicated operations, such as wildfire suppression, disaster recovery and infrastructure monitoring. And for those navigating extreme weather conditions, there's the new self-heating battery for sub-zero temperatures. Ultimately, this is a drone for scalability and rapid deployment."

I've flown both, and DJI is leaps ahead of anything available at your local toy store.

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Fubar
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Posts: 737

« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2018, 01:09:23 PM »

Strapping DF equipment (or having it integrated) is useful, even with low flight times and maintaining LOS.

Integrating ADSB into the drone is pretty smart for collision avoidance.
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etodd
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Posts: 1,304

« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2018, 02:26:27 PM »

All the above is true.  But will vary widely by locale.

A drone can be useful if the location has already been narrowed down to a few small square miles, or less.  A plane that left one airport and did not arrive at the destination 200 miles away, will still need the Cessnas to perform long range route searches.  Until we get very large drones with capabilities of a Reaper, that can go the distance.

Small drones are perfect for that lost hiker that might still be within 5 miles of their last known location.

But for the latter ^^^  in my area, the local police and Sherrif not only have helicopters, but also have drones. We would be amongst the last to be called, as in 2-3 days later when they have given up.

With the true "first responders" already going drone, we are not needed very often.  I'm all for us looking into drone usage, but we need to be realistic in our expectations of when we would actually be called and which types of services, the first responders do not have.
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PHall
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2018, 03:07:11 PM »

CAP aircraft also can't talk to the folks on the ground in need of rescue or drop emergency supplies.

Actually some CAP aircraft CAN talk to people on the ground. They have loudspeakers. And very few people can legally drop just about anything from an aircraft. About the only folks who can legally drop emergency supplies from an aircraft is the US Coast Guard and the US Military.
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xray328
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Posts: 608

« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2018, 03:24:00 PM »

CAP aircraft also can't talk to the folks on the ground in need of rescue or drop emergency supplies.

Actually some CAP aircraft CAN talk to people on the ground. They have loudspeakers. And very few people can legally drop just about anything from an aircraft. About the only folks who can legally drop emergency supplies from an aircraft is the US Coast Guard and the US Military.


But can the folks in the ground talk back? Iíd imagine they could drop these a few feet above them and have a clear two way conversation.  I donít see a drop off of first aid and water too far behind.

Can CAP aircraft do the same? Sure, but at what cost/risk? And how longs it gonna take?


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etodd
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Posts: 1,304

« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2018, 03:29:48 PM »



  I donít see a drop off of first aid and water too far behind.


If you are seeing them with a DJI drone, then you can hike to them in mere minutes. Or less.  LOL
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xray328
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Posts: 608

« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2018, 03:35:33 PM »

Perhaps, the linked product has a video transmission range of 4 miles.  Depending on terrain or weather conditions that could be 2-3 hours plus on foot.  Survivability is all about getting there quickly (as we all know).


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Eclipse
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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2018, 03:40:25 PM »

A Part 107 waiver can be issued on an as-needed basis for "Special Government Interests" which include SAR,
but of course you have to already be a Part 107 pilot.

It's a functionally meaningless situation as CAP does not have the rated personnel at a scale that makes a difference (today).

Part 107 training and licensing should be the kind of thing CAP and the USAF are funding heavily today to
try and stay inside the curve (the front edge is already down the road).

Meanwhile I know of more then a few CAP people seriously discussing lighting up
501c(3)s focused on this exact thing.  There's already any number of them in my state who own helos, Cessnas,
and related assets and get all sorts of work while CAP is benched.

Just in the last couple weeks there was a public call for volunteers to help find a missing child in a wooded area - perfect for this kind of thing.
Literally had hundreds or responses and CAP was not involved.
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xray328
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Posts: 608

« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2018, 03:46:59 PM »

Part 107 certification isnít that difficult to obtain either.  Might be a good way to engage the cadets as well since theyíre largely excluded from the aircrew side. I really think this is the future of our mission, we either embrace it or become obsolete.


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EMT-83
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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2018, 04:16:27 PM »

Getting a Thermal Imaging Camera up in the air quickly is a game-changer on missing person searches.

You can keep the spotlights and loudspeakers as far as Iím concerned.
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xray328
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Posts: 608

« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2018, 04:23:43 PM »

https://www.dji.com/mobile/zenmuse-xt


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etodd
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Posts: 1,304

« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2018, 05:27:29 PM »



Just in the last couple weeks there was a public call for volunteers to help find a missing child in a wooded area - perfect for this kind of thing.
Literally had hundreds or responses and CAP was not involved.

A good example of how this will be a more Wing or even Squadron based thing, more than national.  As I said above, our local police and Sherriff both have helicopters, and the two police ones have full FLIR capability to see people at night.  CAP is not needed in our area for these types of searches, whether we are capable or not. We look to other missions in our Squadron.

Other Wings and Squadrons may be in locations where the local first responders do not have much capability. Perfect place for those Wings to jump on this.

If the Wings and/or Squadrons where their help is needed are "saddled" by having to wait for a National program ... then may as well give it up. We will always be way behind the curve.

How much leeway do Wings, and even Squadrons have ... to ramp up gear and training autonomously for "local needs"?

IMHO ... that is a huge part of the puzzle.

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Fubar
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« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2018, 05:27:41 PM »

Literally had hundreds or responses and CAP was not involved.

Not invited, specifically not invited, or we elected not to participate?
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sardak
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Posts: 1,212

« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2018, 05:34:21 PM »

Between the county SAR team I'm on and the sheriff's office, we have seven UAVs, from Mavic Pro to M600. We have thermal cameras with which we've seen people, rocks, cars, trees, cattle, deer, elk and buffalo at night.

Quote
Part 107 certification isnít that difficult to obtain either.  Might be a good way to engage the cadets as well since theyíre largely excluded from the aircrew side. I really think this is the future of our mission, we either embrace it or become obsolete.
Have to be at least 16 to get a 107 license, which is required to fly SAR missions. Not a bad idea to train the cadets on the material needed for the 107 since most of the material applies to flying in general and not just unmanned aircraft.

Quote
How much leeway do Wings, and even Squadrons have ... to ramp up gear and training autonomously for "local needs"?
As much leeway as we have to support other local missions.


Mike
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etodd
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Posts: 1,304

« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2018, 05:43:49 PM »


Quote
How much leeway do Wings, and even Squadrons have ... to ramp up gear and training autonomously for "local needs"?

As much leeway as we have to support other local missions.


Well I'm not sure how much that can be.  So if its a lot .... then it seems some of these squadrons seeing local needs they could fill ... should stop waiting on a National program, and get the ball rolling locally.  If they don't already have a Part 107 pilot in the Squadron, you can bet there are plenty in the town that would jump at the chance to be used "officially" and would join up.

Recruiting op here.  :)
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2018, 05:46:05 PM »

Literally had hundreds or responses and CAP was not involved.

Not invited, specifically not invited, or we elected not to participate?

Cap likely not even aware since the local relationships don't exist..
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2018, 05:47:37 PM »

If they don't already have a Part 107 pilot in the Squadron, you can bet there are plenty in the town that would jump at the chance to be used "officially" and would join up.

Doubtful.  If they were that interested, they'd join already.  CAP is hardly a secret in the ham and RC sector.

Part 107 licenses aren't much harder to get then any other CAP ES rating, but they do require the UAVs,
and taking the time to both practice and then seek out a tester.

This is the kind of thing where CAP should be spending its STEM money and marketing time. 
It would make CAP a resilient pillar of the community.
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xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 608

« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2018, 05:54:16 PM »

Seems like a missed opportunity.  Youíd hope that CAP would be the go to for this type of work, yet most donít even know we exist.   And yes you do need to be 16 for the 107 certification but we train cadets at NESA for DAART at 15, so itís doable.  Itíd  be great to see NESA start up a 107 certification course.   They already have the UAV course, seems like a natural fit. Maybe Iím putting the cart in front of the horse there though.


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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: New DJI Mavic 2 Designed for Search and Rescue
 


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