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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: New DJI Mavic 2 Designed for Search and Rescue
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Author Topic: New DJI Mavic 2 Designed for Search and Rescue  (Read 2459 times)
Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 737

« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2018, 02:59:59 PM »

And get off the FEMA flying.  As I replied to one of your FEMA posts in another thread, in 2017 FEMA flying hours = SAR flying hours, and each was only 2.6% of total AFAM flying hours.

My WMIRS-fu is poor, I just tried to look this up and couldn't see how to do it. How does our AFAM flying hours break down?
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,307

« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2018, 03:18:10 PM »

And get off the FEMA flying.  As I replied to one of your FEMA posts in another thread, in 2017 FEMA flying hours = SAR flying hours, and each was only 2.6% of total AFAM flying hours.

My WMIRS-fu is poor, I just tried to look this up and couldn't see how to do it. How does our AFAM flying hours break down?

Here is the doc he referenced:

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/DO01__Whats_New_in_Operations_69BB9E928BED7.pdf
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
Gunsotsu
Member

Posts: 93

« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2018, 03:23:16 PM »

Just another classic example of CAP being behind the times.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,258

« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2018, 03:27:26 PM »

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/DO01__Whats_New_in_Operations_69BB9E928BED7.pdf

"parachute operations".
Good.  Lord.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,316

« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2018, 03:33:10 PM »

I think the days of an 550 aircraft fleet are rapidly coming to an end. It's just a matter of time before the ax swings.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,258

« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2018, 03:43:21 PM »

Yes, yes. Of Course.  But like it or not the cell team and the radar team, have fine tuned their methods and these numbers will continually favor those teams. At some point we really will have to start justifying the airplanes in many different ways. Yes, we are doing many things now, but airplane SAR will continue to decline, as we get to the point drones are more and more viable for those missions the cell team can't find a signal path.

Airplane SAR will, hopefully, decline, however that's not going to leave "other things" for manned aircraft to do.
You don't need to train pilots for planes without seats.

I'm just trying to realistically look toward the future. I'm REALLY hoping we can find more and more uses for these planes, so we can still keep using them for Cadets. We have two Cadets working toward their PPL in the squadron's plane currently and more who are interested. Saturday we'll be flying O'Rides, one of my favorite things in CAP.

What are the cadets going to do with them? Would you have said the same thing about buggy whips?

There is a current pilot shortage that will last a generation, and taper off around the time autonomous flight is generally
accepted for even commercial flying. This shortage is / was a result of the pendulum swing of the way pilots were treated
after deregulation making it a poor choice as a career for many on the low end of the sector.  That situation has largely normalized now.

With air travel at historic highs, being a pilot today is fine, but long-term? There's probably a brighter future in being a flight attendant then in an airline pilot.
If you have a kid in college or flight training now, it'll probably fine.
But a toddler today with pictures of airplanes on his walls with parents hoping he'll someday "Fly the Friendly Skies?
No.

In the near term there will be money and rhetoric about increased pilot training for CAP cadets, but mostly for ROTC.
I don't frankly think that is going to last very long because the logistics of ROTC flying are not the same as CAP cadet flying,
but hours are hours. 

It's probably at least as likely that ROTC flight instructors will simply start having access to CAP aircraft directly. (Say 5 years?)
Being more directly connected to the military, if there is a legit push to train ROTC cadets as pilots, it's easier just to
ramp USAF CFIs into the seats as trying to herd CAP into recruiting enough CFIs with flexible time to work for free.
It's already an issue today, let alone having any sort of professional military initiative that increases the number of hours.

CAP has been flying the same basic missions with the same basic aircraft for its entire history - the technology
(sorta) changes, but at the end of the day, it's looking for stuff, listening for stuff, taking pictures of stuff, and moving stuff.
There isn't likely to be an edition moment of a completely new mission that comes out of thin air to use powered aircraft.

To the original tangent, "Saves" have never been a good indicator of CAP operations or capabilities.  They are easy to
articulate to a disinterested legislator or the general public, but really don't mean anything statistically.  If FDs and LEAs
based their successes purely on the people they "saved", they'd be out of business as well.

The last FY is a perfect example, absent the anomaly of a mass "save" that isn't likely replicated, CAPs number would actually
be down significantly.

It's great that a group of members has found a way to leverage access and expertise in an interesting way to the public benefit,
but it's not a unique capability, doesn't use any proprietary technology, and could be easily replicated by agency or team with
the same access to the cell system. It also doesn't mean much to the average member other then a "feel good" in the same vein
as the Olympic videos, and articles about observing space launches.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 03:50:13 PM by Eclipse » Logged


sardak
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,214

« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2018, 04:07:00 PM »

"parachute operations".
Good.  Lord.
How else are we going to insert our counter-sUAS squads?

Mike
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,258

« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2018, 04:22:16 PM »

"parachute operations".
Good.  Lord.
How else are we going to insert our counter-sUAS squads?

Mike

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Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 737

« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2018, 06:49:42 PM »

It's probably at least as likely that ROTC flight instructors will simply start having access to CAP aircraft directly. (Say 5 years?)

We're already providing funding for ROTC cadets to fly our planes to further their pilot training, having their CFIs use our planes might be closer than you think.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,258

« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2018, 07:02:51 PM »

It's probably at least as likely that ROTC flight instructors will simply start having access to CAP aircraft directly. (Say 5 years?)

We're already providing funding for ROTC cadets to fly our planes to further their pilot training, having their CFIs use our planes might be closer than you think.

I'm referring the 2.some million in the FY19 budget for CAP and ROTC training, over and above their
normal budget.  Looks great on paper, CAP doesn't have the bodies to execute it in most wings, and / or
it'll further stress maintenance and have the planes gone even more.
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Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 737

« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2018, 07:07:44 PM »

Here is the doc he referenced:

Ah thank you. So for FY18, our flying hours were:

AFJROTC7873%
Air Defense1,1234%
Other / HLS7,06426%
Cadet Orientation10,01137%
AFROTC5082%
Surrogate RPA1,1704%
Range Support3521%
Route Survey4512%
SAR1,4035%
Counter Drug3,02811%
DSCA /DR9113%
Total:26,808

Numbers are rounded. Took out maintenance and training (7,123 and 21,578 respectively) since these aren't "missions" that we can expand (they go away when the missions go away).

Good thing the Air Force likes us flying cadets. That seems to be the mission to be most worried about. A close second is keeping the homeland security folks happy (although the "other" here makes me wonder if the drone escorts ended up in here).

Given the minimal time spent flying SAR and DR, I'd wager we'll keep those missions since nobody else will find them worth the trouble to assume.

I don't work in aviation, is the ratio of our "customer" flying of 26,808 hours to our non-customer flying of 28,701 hours normal?
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Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 737

« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2018, 07:12:37 PM »

I'm referring the 2.some million in the FY19 budget for CAP and ROTC training, over and above their normal budget.  Looks great on paper, CAP doesn't have the bodies to execute it in most wings, and / or it'll further stress maintenance and have the planes gone even more.

A lot about the program to allow ROTC cadets fly our planes hasn't been worked out. They apparently have to join CAP, but then what? Do they get duty assignments? Do they attend squadron meetings? Can they fly HP glass aircraft?

We've already had ROTC units tell their kids to call us for free flying, we had to ask NHQ what it was about since none of us had heard about it. We were told it was covered at the national convention, apparently if you didn't attend you didn't get to know about it. The ROTC kids had a nice letter from their HQ detailing their part of the program (which wasn't much, just come to us for free flying).
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,258

« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2018, 07:23:43 PM »

A lot about the program to allow ROTC cadets fly our planes hasn't been worked out.

That's my point $2.5MM and a press release with no plan.
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xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 613

« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2018, 07:25:02 PM »

How did we not secure some of this for our own cadets?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,258

« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2018, 07:55:34 PM »

How did we not secure some of this for our own cadets?

There's supposed to be money in there for CAP, JROTC and ROTC.

"Details in late October"...so...

https://www.cap.news/caps-desmarais-addresses-orientation-flights-youth-aviation-initiatives-on-faa-panel/

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/programs/cadets/cadetinvest/youth-aviation-initiative


Take-Off Program - TOP Cadet (Second Cadet Year)
Merit-based program supporting cadets at week-long powered and glider flight academies, possibly leading at a solo flight
Lift Program (Second Year Cadet)
Need-based supporting cadets at week-long career explorations (NCSAs)

Cadet Wings Program (Third Cadet Year & Beyond)
Merit-based program for cadets pursuing a private pilot certificate; ultra-competitive...jewel of cadet life

"Details in late October"...so...

I suppose its not fair to judge something on a tag line, but "ultra competitive" generally means
"a couple few" and most cadets won't even bother, however since CAP doesn't rate their cadets on years,
one could conjecture this is actually the ROTC plan which probably just has them attending summer
flight academies.

No idea why they'd have to join, but that's also a nice little mess to deal with from a structure standpoint.
So does a third year ROTC cadet come in as a slick-sleeve CAP cadet?
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Ohioguard
Member

Posts: 51

« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2018, 11:22:18 PM »

If you really want to get involved:

Job Title:  Senior Program Manager, Small Unmanned Aerial System (sUAS)
Directorate:  Operations
Salary:  $70,095
Location:  Maxwell AFB AL
Reports To:  John Desmarais
Closing Date:  7 November 2018     

Job description on the home page with application procedures.     
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,258

« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2018, 11:30:05 PM »

If you really want to get involved:

Job Title:  Senior Program Manager, Small Unmanned Aerial System (sUAS)
Directorate:  Operations
Salary:  $70,095
Location:  Maxwell AFB AL
Reports To:  John Desmarais
Closing Date:  7 November 2018     

Job description on the home page with application procedures.   

Thank you for pointing out one of the legitimate issues with NHQ jobs - they're at NHQ...in Alabama.
That severally and artificially limits the pool of applicants to...Alabama.

Few people with the skills and experience that a national organisation like CAP would like to hire are
going to relocate to Alabama for $70k and no relocation expenses, etc.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,307

« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2018, 04:09:24 PM »


Few people with the skills and experience that a national organisation like CAP would like to hire are
going to relocate to Alabama for $70k and no relocation expenses, etc.

I think you have seen the movie Deliverance a few too many times.  :P

You do realize that Alabama, Huntsville in particular, is known as the Silicon Valley of the east? We have more phDs and engineers here than anywhere east of the Mississippi river. From space industries and so much more in North Alabama, to jets being built in the south, Alabama is rocking it.

CAP doesn't have to look far for some incredible talent. Feel free to stay where you are. ;)
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,258

« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2018, 04:34:37 PM »

You do realize that Alabama, Huntsville in particular, is known as the Silicon Valley of the east?

Keep telling yourself that.

Trying to sell yourself as that to attract talent doesn't make you that.  It's marketing BS.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,307

« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2018, 04:40:47 PM »

You do realize that Alabama, Huntsville in particular, is known as the Silicon Valley of the east?

Keep telling yourself that.

Trying to sell yourself as that to attract talent doesn't make you that.  It's marketing BS.


You should come visit.  Its not marketing.  Its outsiders seeing whats happening:

Engineers per 1,000 employees: 60.771

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/fjle45leeg/no-1-huntsville-alabama-2/#4d2c0e0a39cc

https://www.wsj.com/articles/forget-silicon-valley-the-future-of-tech-is-in-these-three-cities-1529426153

https://www.cbsnews.com/media/americas-top-10-tech-cities-arent-on-the-coasts/2/

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/299173

https://www.inc.com/david-brown/aols-steve-case-says-san-francisco-is-out-heres-where-startups-should-look-to-next.html
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: New DJI Mavic 2 Designed for Search and Rescue
 


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