Proposal to fix Lt.Col Coffebringer "Issue"

[Flying Pig]

When I was in the infantry we just tore open the little MRE coffee packets and put it in our lower lip like chew.  Yum Yum.  No problems staying awake in the ambush thats for sure! 

Maybe Stabucks could make a new drink called "The Grunt"   Just pour the coffee grounds right into your mouth. 

[Eclipse]

Maybe Stabucks could make a new drink called "The Grunt"   Just pour the coffee grounds right into your mouth.

They already do, I rarely leave home without it:


It's not bad, actually, and several notches above normal instant coffee, which is usually better on
ice cream then in a cup.

[Flying Pig]

CRAP!  Another multimillion dollar discovery that I let slip away

[THRAWN]

When I was in the infantry we just tore open the little MRE coffee packets and put it in our lower lip like chew.  Yum Yum.  No problems staying awake in the ambush thats for sure! 

Maybe Stabucks could make a new drink called "The Grunt"   Just pour the coffee grounds right into your mouth.

I still do that. I remember a bivouac in the late '90s, I needed a quick jolt, so I grabbed my coffee packet, the creamer, canteen and what I thought was the sugar packet. Dumped the drygoods into my mouth, added a mouthful of water, and was greeted with very salty coffee. Not the jolt I had in mind....

I had a squadron commander who used to mix Cafe Bustello in with his dip. Knew him for 10 years, never once saw him sit.

[THRAWN]

Maybe Stabucks could make a new drink called "The Grunt"   Just pour the coffee grounds right into your mouth.

They already do, I rarely leave home without it:


It's not bad, actually, and several notches above normal instant coffee, which is usually better on
ice cream then in a cup.

I love these things. Always have at least one box with me. Great in Pepsi....

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

What about the rest of us who do not drink coffee?

[THRAWN]

What about the rest of us who do not drink coffee?

Nothing wrong with a long steeped Twinnings Jasmine tea....

[Eclipse]

What about the rest of us who do not drink coffee?

Heathens and blasphemers!

(Though I enjoy a tea now and again myself for a change - two bags, please!)

[PHall]

What about the rest of us who do not drink coffee?

Sucks to be you then!

[capchick121]

This is the most entertaining post I have ever read on CAPTALK.

My 2 cents: If higher ranking individuals are bothered by the fact that they no longer have a job because someone of lesser rank got the position, then they should do something more productive than making coffee. When things aren't going the way I'd like at CAP, I clean. No one else does it. I'm helping my team, and when you do the dirty work, you're untouchable. Why don't these higher ranking individuals seek higher positions like group, wing, region? They CHOOSE to make coffee.

[Garibaldi]

This is the most entertaining post I have ever read on CAPTALK.

My 2 cents: If higher ranking individuals are bothered by the fact that they no longer have a job because someone of lesser rank got the position, then they should do something more productive than making coffee. When things aren't going the way I'd like at CAP, I clean. No one else does it. I'm helping my team, and when you do the dirty work, you're untouchable. Why don't these higher ranking individuals seek higher positions like group, wing, region? They CHOOSE to make coffee.

It's really a metaphor for the way things are in CAP after you get...retired in place. You don't have anywhere to go past Lt Col, unless you are ambitious enough and politically connected enough to go for Wing or Region command. So, the metaphor is valid. The Lt Col ends up "bringing the coffee and donuts" because they really have nothing better to do at meetings.

I wouldn't say they are bothered so much. They most likely have been there, done that (BTDT) so much that they still want to participate, but they don't have a staff position. It's kind of sad, that we have eleventy Lt Cols in CAP but in the Real Military (RM) they would be forced to retire. There really are limited options after hitting Level 5. Which is why I refuse to promote beyond Major. As long as that bogus carrot of advancement is there, I'm good. I'm too young to retire in place! I don't want to go to Wing or Region, FSM (Flying Spaghetti Monster) forbid I go to National. I am perfectly content with what I do. I'll bring the donuts and coffee when and if it comes to it.

[Storm Chaser]

I personally don't have a problem with a Lt Col that, after several years in different assignments at different levels within the organization, decides to return to a squadron and take it "easy". My issue is with the CAP promotion system itself.

In CAP, there are several specialties that allow members to be get promoted up to Lt Col without having to serve at Group or Wing. In addition, a member with no prior cadet or military background or special skills can theoretically promote to Lt Col in 10 years. With many longterm members serving at least 20 years, that's half (or less) of their entire CAP career. So what do they do then?

When you add special skills and military promotions to the mix, you have many Lt Cols with less than 10 years in CAP that haven't done anything more than chaperon cadets during drill or PT... or just serve the coffee and donuts at the meetings.

This issue is made worst by the fact that many members can be promoted to Lt Col without any expectations of increased responsibilities. Again, I don't think the issue is a Lt Col that's BTDT and now has sort of "retired" in place and helps as he/she can. The issue I have is with Lt Cols that haven't done much in CAP, are not expected to do much and yet, got promoted. Meanwhile, you have inexperienced 1st Lts and Capts as SQ/CCs because all the other Majs and Lt Cols in the unit don't want the job.

I think one way to alleviate this situation is to increase the requirements to get promoted to Lt Col, increase the time in grade, add time in service requirements, require service at the group and/or wing levels and established an expectation of increased responsibilities with the promotion. Then, if a Lt Col decides after 20 years of service that instead of retiring he/she wants to help out at a unit, then I doubt anyone would be able to complain.

[Alaric]

I personally don't have a problem with a Lt Col that, after several years in different assignments at different levels within the organization, decides to return to a squadron and take it "easy". My issue is with the CAP promotion system itself.

In CAP, there are several specialties that allow members to be get promoted up to Lt Col without having to serve at Group or Wing. In addition, a member with no prior cadet or military background or special skills can theoretically promote to Lt Col in 10 years. With many longterm members serving at least 20 years, that's half (or less) of their entire CAP career. So what do they do then?

When you add special skills and military promotions to the mix, you have many Lt Cols with less than 10 years in CAP that haven't done anything more than chaperon cadets during drill or PT... or just serve the coffee and donuts at the meetings.

This issue is made worst by the fact that many members can be promoted to Lt Col without any expectations of increased responsibilities. Again, I don't think the issue is a Lt Col that's BTDT and now has sort of "retired" in place and helps as he/she can. The issue I have is with Lt Cols that haven't done much in CAP, are not expected to do much and yet, got promoted. Meanwhile, you have inexperienced 1st Lts and Capts as SQ/CCs because all the other Majs and Lt Cols in the unit don't want the job.

I think one way to alleviate this situation is to increase the requirements to get promoted to Lt Col, increase the time in grade, add time in service requirements, require service at the group and/or wing levels and established an expectation of increased responsibilities with the promotion. Then, if a Lt Col decides after 20 years of service that instead of retiring he/she wants to help out at a unit, then I doubt anyone would be able to complain.

I might see your point if rank in CAP was related to authority, but its not.  We're a volunteer organization and some people want to be involved in a local squadron and others love doing the Wing/Region/National thing.  Should we deprive ourselves of volunteer talent because they're not of the proper rank?  Rank in CAP is related to special skills, prior military service, or progression up the Professional Development program.  As long as that remains true, the ranks will always be skewed.  Eliminate the first two and make rank directly related to PD and CAP experience, you might see a cure.

[Storm Chaser]

I guess where you and I seem to disagree is that I don't believe grade should be those things. We wear military style uniforms with military style grade insignias. Even though we're civilian volunteers, there's going to be an expectation. Now, if we don't want to live up to that expectation, then why do we need military style grades?

[Eclipse]

The only "fix" for this issue is to have grade be commensurate with authority, meaning no authority, no grade, and
when you step down you leave the grade on the desk for the next guy.

Longevity and experience can / should be recognized with the specialty badges, command service decorations,
and the red service ribbon, all of which we already have.

The only "sirs" and "salutes" are for members with grade on their shoulder, because that means they
really are in charge (of something), and everyone else can be a "mister" or "miss".

This would make life a lot easier for everyone, no promotions to deal with and PD gains more weight since
it would become the new indicator of "BTDT". No caste system of NCO/Officer necessary, and no need
to bother with generally irrelevant outside experience or qualifications for advanced promotion since those disappear as well.

Have great experience and skill CAP can utilize?  Great.  Pick up a corner and start helping carry the load.
Want military-style grade?  Awesome.  Accept the responsibility of command.

Done.

[Storm Chaser]

That's certainly an option. And something that was done quite frequently during World War II where temporary promotions were issued along with duty assignments. Military officers often reverted to their permanent grade when they were done with their tour. This model seems to work for the CGAUX; maybe it can work for CAP. But I doubt most members would go for that.

[Eclipse]

But I doubt most members would go for that.

Sadly I agree.

[MIKE]

This model seems to work for the CGAUX; maybe it can work for CAP. But I doubt most members would go for that.

In the CGAUX, we don't have to revert to a lesser insignia when we leave office... provided we complete the minimum term.  I will keep my bars when I finish my term as Flotilla Commander.  I'll just wear the Past Officer Device when the insignia no longer reflects my current billet.  We don't have Lt Col Coffeebringers, we have COMO Coffeebringers.

The other issue is brand new members who take on higher office and get frocked to the insignia of that office without having served a day in the unit level position.  This is common among staff officers.

[RiverAux]

The other issue is brand new members who take on higher office and get frocked to the insignia of that office without having served a day in the unit level position.  This is common among staff officers.

Exactly, the Lt. Col. Coffeebringer isn't an actual problem.  However, having so few people that new members that show any competence at all that they are almost immediately pushed into the squadron commander or group/wing staff positions does show a major weakness in CAP. 

[lordmonar]

The other issue is brand new members who take on higher office and get frocked to the insignia of that office without having served a day in the unit level position.  This is common among staff officers.

Exactly, the Lt. Col. Coffeebringer isn't an actual problem.  However, having so few people that new members that show any competence at all that they are almost immediately pushed into the squadron commander or group/wing staff positions does show a major weakness in CAP.

Or any volunteer organization.

Me and Eclipse fight like cats and dogs....but we both agree....that we need more people and we need to train those people.