Proposal to fix Lt.Col Coffebringer "Issue"

[PHall]

I'm sure that this will be an unpopular suggestion, but if our rank structure really causes that much trouble with the ES community, the easiest solution is to just stop wearing rank insignia while on actual missions.

California Wing does this already with their "Ground Team Uniform". No grade is worn for pretty much those reasons. Prevents conflicts between our Egos and the other ES organizations egos.

[Eclipse]

California Wing does this already with their "Ground Team Uniform". No grade is worn for pretty much those reasons. Prevents conflicts between our Egos and the other ES organizations egos.

If that is actually part of the reasoning, then someone, somewhere, needs to readjust or check their own egos.

That's really silly, and I bet a venti no other orgs in your wing have "special" uniforms just so they get to play with others and
not make people sad.

[PHall]

California Wing does this already with their "Ground Team Uniform". No grade is worn for pretty much those reasons. Prevents conflicts between our Egos and the other ES organizations egos.

If that is actually part of the reasoning, then someone, somewhere, needs to readjust or check their own egos.

That's really silly, and I bet a venti no other orgs in your wing have "special" uniforms just so they get to play with others and
not make people sad.

Bob, it works in the conditions we have here in this state. Probably wouldn't work elsewhere. But that's what we have to deal with. meh...

[Storm Chaser]

^ If grade insignias are an issue in California, then how come this uniform is only worn by ground team members?

[Eclipse]

Bob, it works in the conditions we have here in this state. Probably wouldn't work elsewhere. But that's what we have to deal with. meh...

Just keep it on the left coast.

[PHall]

^ If grade insignias are an issue in California, then how come this uniform is only worn by ground team members?

Because we don't fly in the Sheriff's aircraft and they normally don't fly in ours.

[Storm Chaser]

^ If grade insignias are an issue in California, then how come this uniform is only worn by ground team members?

Because we don't fly in the Sheriff's aircraft and they normally don't fly in ours.

What about mission base? None of your other ES personnel interact with external agencies other than ground teams?

[The14th]

CAP grade means very little.

[SarDragon]

We wail and gnash our teeth at how other organizations don't take us "seriously".  What do you think that first impression is going to be with the leaders of an outside organization when they see a Lt. Colonel serving coffee and cake?  Sure, to us it makes sense.  But to everybody else, it just screams "dysfunctional".

You see a Lt Col serving coffee to a Capt as an issue with rank.  I see it as a problem of "Why can't the Capt get his own coffee?"

We don't need coffee-servers at all, whether they be C/A1Cs or Maj Gen.  Get up and get your own coffee.

I made IC as a 1st Lt.  I had no problem giving direction to Lt Cols, and they had no problem taking directions from me.  I was grateful to have their experience on my staff, and they were grateful someone else was responsible for all the BS paperwork at the end of the mission.  Win-Win.

I'm a pretty friendly kind of guy. If I'm somewhere (meeting, mission base, etc) and there are beverages available, I will usually ask the person/people next to me if they want anything, if I go for myself. It's just being polite, regardless of rank.

[Mitchell 1969]

I'm sure that this will be an unpopular suggestion, but if our rank structure really causes that much trouble with the ES community, the easiest solution is to just stop wearing rank insignia while on actual missions.

California Wing does this already with their "Ground Team Uniform". No grade is worn for pretty much those reasons. Prevents conflicts between our Egos and the other ES organizations egos.

I'm convinced that there is no actual reason and never has been.  I'd put money on this being a legacy of a long-ago voiced personal opinion that was not, in fact, based on any operational need or any request/preference/wish on the part of any other agency.

[JeffDG]

We wail and gnash our teeth at how other organizations don't take us "seriously".  What do you think that first impression is going to be with the leaders of an outside organization when they see a Lt. Colonel serving coffee and cake?  Sure, to us it makes sense.  But to everybody else, it just screams "dysfunctional".

You see a Lt Col serving coffee to a Capt as an issue with rank.  I see it as a problem of "Why can't the Capt get his own coffee?"

We don't need coffee-servers at all, whether they be C/A1Cs or Maj Gen.  Get up and get your own coffee.

I made IC as a 1st Lt.  I had no problem giving direction to Lt Cols, and they had no problem taking directions from me.  I was grateful to have their experience on my staff, and they were grateful someone else was responsible for all the BS paperwork at the end of the mission.  Win-Win.

I'm a pretty friendly kind of guy. If I'm somewhere (meeting, mission base, etc) and there are beverages available, I will usually ask the person/people next to me if they want anything, if I go for myself. It's just being polite, regardless of rank.

Courtesy and grabbing a drink for the guy next to you anyway is one thing.  Having someone "serving" coffee is a different matter altogether.

[Flying Pig]

CAP grade means very little.

Very little?  I think you are giving it to much credit.

[NIN]

Courtesy and grabbing a drink for the guy next to you anyway is one thing.  Having someone "serving" coffee is a different matter altogether.

I know a CAP Captain who is a Starbucks barista. I want her making the coffee at my next CAP activity.  Not some crusty Lt Col who's idea of "good coffee" is that sludge you got in the ol' mess hall drip machines.

[Mitchell 1969]

CAP grade means very little.

Very little?  I think you are giving it to much credit.

It sometimes means something.

At NAS Dallas in 1973, as a cadet officer, I was told to use the "officers and CPOs head" rather than the enlisted head.  No real prestige, no real difference, but it was closer to the ops desk where I was waiting.

As a Major, I've been bumped up to field grade level visiting officers quarters. I have a sneaky feeling that all it meant was that I got two little wrapped soaps instead of one.

[a2capt]

I'd be more inclined to believe that the reason the grade insignia is not on the caltrans uniform is because there was no way in heck it was going to get approved otherwise.

Someones cute pet project..

[Flying Pig]

CAP grade means very little.

Very little?  I think you are giving it to much credit.

It sometimes means something.

At NAS Dallas in 1973, as a cadet officer, I was told to use the "officers and CPOs head" rather than the enlisted head.  No real prestige, no real difference, but it was closer to the ops desk where I was waiting.

As a Major, I've been bumped up to field grade level visiting officers quarters. I have a sneaky feeling that all it meant was that I got two little wrapped soaps instead of one.

You are correct.  I shouldn't be so bold with my down playing it.   The rank in CAP is a visual symbol of someones PD progression, can mean they bring a special skill to CAP (although you don't know that by looking at their rank)  or can show that they have done their time and worked their way from SM to LTC and should be subject matter experts on CAP.  Having been in the military, CAP and like many people here, having worked for several public safety agencies..... the rank issue is such a NON issue.  It doesn't create any problems.  And like someone above mentioned, I would really like to here a scenario where rank in CAP caused an issue with an outside agency beyond some general curiosity questions.   And a National Commander getting a better room over a Colonel or something isn't what Im talking about. 

[The14th]

Who needs a visual representation of someone else's PD? If they are doing their volunteer job well, who cares? This just proves my point even more about the grade being useless if THAT is what it's good for. Also, are the CAP NCOs any less the volunteers because JoeSchmo can't automatically tell what Level he's completed?

[SarDragon]

Courtesy and grabbing a drink for the guy next to you anyway is one thing.  Having someone "serving" coffee is a different matter altogether.

Frankly, in all my time in CAP, I've never seen anyone "serving" coffee. Where did you see this? Or is this another hypothetical problem looking for a solution.

[Eclipse]

I have certainly seen people making coffee, I even caught someone (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) running
the grounds >TWICE<.

He was threatened with termination if I ever caught that again...

[JeffDG]

I have certainly seen people making coffee, I even caught someone (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) running
the grounds >TWICE<.

He was threatened with termination if I ever caught that again...

There are things that fall outside the progressive discipline policy...