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Author Topic: You've got to be kidding me.  (Read 13964 times)
capmaj
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« on: May 11, 2014, 12:07:04 PM »

And their Senior was where? This appeared on both MSN news and ABC News, allegedly in Virginia.


http://newsbcpcol.stb.s-msn.com/amnews/i/fd/e29c97349e6489fcbbd5d04a8e7b60/_h366_w650_m6_otrue_lfalse.jpg
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2014, 12:24:12 PM »

I will bet that senior member stood in the middle of the road to take the picture without a safety vest...

 ???
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Flying Pig
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2014, 01:24:54 PM »

Wow......   I'm thinking some cadets who do air soft "off duty"
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2014, 01:28:58 PM »

It may be possible these cadets are "off duty" but one appears to be wearing a CAP shirt, I can see part of his white-on-blue name tag, another has the American flag patch on the same sleeve we wear it. Behind them I see what appears to be an ambulance cab. To me it probably was taken at a CAP activity...
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NC Hokie
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2014, 01:51:36 PM »

It may be possible these cadets are "off duty" but one appears to be wearing a CAP shirt, I can see part of his white-on-blue name tag, another has the American flag patch on the same sleeve we wear it. Behind them I see what appears to be an ambulance cab. To me it probably was taken at a CAP activity...
They're CAP cadets responding to a balloon crash near Richmond, Virginia.  Here's the story with the original picture as well as another that clearly shows the same group of cadets with even more CAP insignia visible (including C/SMSgt or C/CMSgt rank insignia on two of them):

http://news.yahoo.com/balloon-crash-looms-over-u-richmond-graduation-043203809.html

To answer the original question, I suspect that their senior member can be seen in the background near what appears to be a CAP van.

You guys can criticize their appearance if you wish (and yes, there are issues), but I'll leave that to their chain of command.  I will say the following...

"Semper Vi, cadets!"
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NC Hokie, Lt Col, CAP

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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2014, 02:29:10 PM »

Wow.

 :( >:(

Click on the lower photo that NC alludes to. Read the comments. Most are negative but there are some people out there who do know about us, and are willing to bat...

 :)

I just had to respond to some... And my anger came through...

I guess I get too emotional rather quick...
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TexasCadet
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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2014, 03:10:54 PM »

There is at least one picture of a cadet with a tactical vest and magazines pouches. Magazine pouches?! Didn't we just have two threads discussing the issue of ground teams carrying weapons? What useful purpose do magazine pouches serve besides holding magazines? This does not help our public image.
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PHall
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« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2014, 03:11:52 PM »

It may be possible these cadets are "off duty" but one appears to be wearing a CAP shirt, I can see part of his white-on-blue name tag, another has the American flag patch on the same sleeve we wear it. Behind them I see what appears to be an ambulance cab. To me it probably was taken at a CAP activity...
They're CAP cadets responding to a balloon crash near Richmond, Virginia.  Here's the story with the original picture as well as another that clearly shows the same group of cadets with even more CAP insignia visible (including C/SMSgt or C/CMSgt rank insignia on two of them):

http://news.yahoo.com/balloon-crash-looms-over-u-richmond-graduation-043203809.html

To answer the original question, I suspect that their senior member can be seen in the background near what appears to be a CAP van.

You guys can criticize their appearance if you wish (and yes, there are issues), but I'll leave that to their chain of command.  I will say the following...

"Semper Vi, cadets!"


Then don't get upset when other organizations call us a bunch of unprofessional rescue wannabes.
We're not exactly presenting our best image here.
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NC Hokie
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2014, 03:38:30 PM »

Then don't get upset when other organizations call us a bunch of unprofessional rescue wannabes.
We're not exactly presenting our best image here.

Whatever happened to praise in public and criticize in private?

Again, their CHAIN OF COMMAND can address the uniform issues, and I hope it does, but that does not detract from the fact that these cadets answered a call for help while many of their peers spent a beautiful Saturday indoors playing Minecraft and updating their Facebook status.
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NC Hokie, Lt Col, CAP

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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2014, 03:45:06 PM »

I second NC's statement.

When I saw the first message, I did make one comment but after realizing they were on a real mission I stopped criticizing them. And to answer Texas comment, what is wrong with wearing ammo pouches? If it can carry ammo, it can carry survival gear, first aid supplies, and so on. If you are going to make issue of the ammo pouch, so can you of almost any vest.
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Гугл переводчик
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2014, 03:48:07 PM »

We use ammo pouches in the Army for a lot of things... Holding snacks is my favorite  :clap:
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Garibaldi
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2014, 05:12:21 PM »

The only thing I am going to say is this: The team responding knows what sort of uniform and hats they are authorized to wear. I foresee a memo from on high soon regarding the headgear sported by the two cadets(?) in the picture.
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Tim Day
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2014, 05:57:21 PM »

Has anyone had their Ground Team folks just wear the BBDU, cadets included?
   
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Tim Day
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PHall
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2014, 05:58:32 PM »

Has anyone had their Ground Team folks just wear the BBDU, cadets included?
 


Reason? ???
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Devil Doc
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« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2014, 09:40:07 PM »

I don't see much wrong with it. Boonies are allowed in the field. The tac vest is nothing new, seen tons of them at a Ranger weekend.
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Garibaldi
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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2014, 09:55:20 PM »

I don't see much wrong with it. Boonies are allowed in the field. The tac vest is nothing new, seen tons of them at a Ranger weekend.

Sorry, but the only boonie hat authorized is for the BBDU, not the BDUs. The other gear I have no issues with, but 2 seem to be disregarding the safety vest altogether.
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Tim Day
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Prince William Composite Squadron
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2014, 10:38:38 PM »

Has anyone had their Ground Team folks just wear the BBDU, cadets included?
 


Reason? ???

To avoid situations like this where the first thing people think of when they see teenagers tramping through dense vegetation and swamp searching for victims of a tragedy is "Hey, they're not complying with 39-1."

Seriously. No other SAR group judges us on what we wear, except they can't believe we let people wear cotton.

The scarves are probably not justifiable. But a wide brimmed hat protects from the sun. I wear a climbing helmet with my head lamp on SAR missions. I also wear gaiters and civilian lightweight gortex boots. And a red backpack like NESA recommends. That's not an authorized uniform either.

Soaring activities have their own officially blessed made up uniform (shorts and any Tshirt that identifies with CAP). Why should GSAR be any more restrictive than soaring?

Is being an effective searcher not important? Maybe worrying more about how we look than being an effective searcher is our problem.

Maybe we should follow the soaring model and have folks just wear appropriate outdoor clothing with a cap patch or nametag and get on with the business of finding people.
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Tim Day
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lordmonar
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« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2014, 11:12:54 PM »

There is at least one picture of a cadet with a tactical vest and magazines pouches. Magazine pouches?! Didn't we just have two threads discussing the issue of ground teams carrying weapons? What useful purpose do magazine pouches serve besides holding magazines? This does not help our public image.
????
We have been using ammo pouches to hold our GT gear since the dawn of time.
I use my three and two mag pouches to hold my EF-johnson, my GPS, my survival kit, my first aid kit.

It is just a pouch that happens to be able to hold a M-4 30 round magazine or two.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2014, 11:30:27 PM »

Gardening hats Boonies are not allowed in any circumstance with the USAF-style uniform, nor are the boots
seen on the cadet in the front. There is no issue with the tac gear, beyond it being somewhat ill-suited to the
duty, but more importantly they are literally walking along a roadway without the requisite ANSI safety vests as now required.

Any blame for these cadets being held out in public lies squarely on their commander and the ground team leader
who allowed them to deploy looking like that.

They have time for affections like shemaghs, but not to get the safety equipment required?

If their wing CC is watching their should be a number of qualifications suspended pending remedial training in procedures,
not to mention some unit visits as it is unlikely these types of violations tend to be endemic to a unit or activity.

Whether or not they are on an actual mission is irrelevant to the discussion of procedures and policies, nor is
any discussion of "what CAP should allow.  Few would argue that the uniform policies are not a mess, especially
in regards to "function vs. affectation", however the regs are the regs.
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Tim Day
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Unit: MER-VA-102

Prince William Composite Squadron
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2014, 02:00:27 AM »

Regs are regs... but currently they are contradictory, leaving room to allow people to wear things that keep them safe and effective as searchers. You don't want to be wearing combat boots without gaiters in the swamp, and that's where you have to go quite frequently. BDU boonie hats and desert scarves are a little harder for me to justify, although I know SAR personnel who believe in them. Personally I'd rather they be wearing a high-viz orange or light blue hat or better yet, a helmet (blue is highly visible in the woods since it's not a natural color). 

But the problem is solvable and not without precedent.

Let's just abandon BDU as a SAR uniform altogether. The official CAP Soaring Program uniform is shorts or long pants and a T-shirt identifying the member as part of CAP. A workable SAR uniform could be any appropriate outdoor clothing with some marking that indicates the member is associated with CAP (maybe even just a ballcap or wide-brim, non-BDU hat marked "CAP").

That would actually fit in very well with our local SAR groups and allow our people to procure discount outdoor wear that keeps them safe and effective (and which they could also wear at non-CAP events). The rationale is the same as for the Soaring Uniform: practicality and safety.

Want to wear the BDU? Fully comply with 39-1. Ok with civilian clothes? Wear a hat or helmet with CAP markings and appropriate clothing for the mission.
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Tim Day
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: You've got to be kidding me.
 


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