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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Why are Cadet Crossover Members so Rare?
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spacecommand
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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2012, 05:17:40 AM »

I think the "cross over" happens much later in life.  In my unit we have quite a few senior members who were cadets "a long time ago" but came back into CAP as senior members later in life.  Things simply "get in the way", college, work/careers etc, things tend to settle down a bit later in life and they re-join, many (in my unit) tend to be retired or near retirement or pretty much settled down in life (but still  young ;) ) before they joined in as Senior Members after being cadets in their younger days.

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BillB
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« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2012, 11:46:18 AM »

During the period between World War II and Korea, it was very common for cadets to turn Senior between the 18-21 year bracket. In the Squadron I was in probably 75% (as a guess) fell into this condition. These cadets turned senior were given non-com grades based on the highest level completed in the cadet program. mThere were no warrent officer or flight officer positions at that time period. I was given the grade of MSgt based on completing ach. 9 in the cadet program. Ever see a 19 year old MSgt? With a cadet COP you got Sgt grade.
The period of WW II up to probably 1960, before Jack Sorensen came up with basically the current cadet program, would find more cadets crossover to senior membership directly from cadet status. Why the changes mentioned in other posts of a break in membership is beyond my experiences of the period. Cadet then still retained cadet or senior membership while attending colleges, often transferring to squadrons near their schools. Now it seems that college students drop membership. Why?
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
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SamFranklin
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« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2012, 01:30:11 PM »

The percent of cadets who turn senior may be low, but the percent of seniors who were cadets must be quite considerable. Look at the highest levels of CAP for an example.

Of the 17 individuals on the last iteration of the BoG/NEC (before the governance changes), 6 are former cadets  (Anderson, Lee, Vasquez, Chazell, Phelka, Parris). That's better than one-third, and a stat that CAP should be proud of.

I agree that college and first jobs and new families explain why so few 20-something ex-cadets stay in CAP.
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RiverAux
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« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2012, 02:33:21 PM »

I think part of it may be that a fair number of cadets are interested in becoming pilots when they grow up which leads them to CAP.  However, when they're older they realize just how expensive it is to be a pilot, CAP or otherwise, and that reduces their incentive to stay with CAP.

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Eclipse
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« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2012, 02:39:50 PM »

How many colleges have units?
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Garibaldi
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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2012, 03:02:05 PM »

How many colleges have units?

Colleges with AFROTC have CAP units, but they aren't traditional CAP units as we know them.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2012, 04:02:57 PM »

How many colleges have units?

Colleges with AFROTC have CAP units, but they aren't traditional CAP units as we know them.

A few do, but it's by no means consistent..

There are less then 150 schools that offer AFROTC, and another under 900 associated with a nearby detachment.

There are less then 1500 CAP units total.
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Garibaldi
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« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2012, 04:40:16 PM »

How many colleges have units?

Colleges with AFROTC have CAP units, but they aren't traditional CAP units as we know them.

A few do, but it's by no means consistent..

There are less then than 150 schools that offer AFROTC, and another under 900 associated with a nearby detachment.

There are less then than 1500 CAP units total.

FTFY  >:D

Grammar patrol...AWAAAAAYYYYYYY!!! *flies into the sunset*
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coudano
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« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2012, 04:54:59 PM »

imho, to be a productive senior member requires one to have an abundance of talent, time, and energy, AND the capability and willingness, and motivation to share it.  in my experience, old cadets and young senior members rarely possess this.  the ones that do, stay on and often do great things.  the others just go on with their lives.  fwiw, we do a mediocre job of setting people up for that transition, of basically consumer of the program to producer of it.  freal, -most- of the cadets i have tried to transition have looked at the other side and just said.  nah, not interested.

additionally it may be a shock going from mom and dad paying your $40 a year plus uniform and activity fees  and transportation to you paying for your own $80 a year plus uniform, activity fees, transportaation, and if you work with cadets, probably covering part of someone elses too...   all during that magical few years where you make rent barely by sharing an apartment with 3 roommates, sit on a futon you picked up off the street, and consider peanut butter sanwiches and ramen a good, full meal :)
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BillB
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« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2012, 07:25:06 PM »

Up to about ten years ago, every SAFROTC Detachment sponsored a CAP unit within the AFROTC program. USAF paid part of the dues. Each AFROTC CAP unit had it's own charter number NOT a Wing charter number, but rather one of a block issued to AFROTC More often than not there was little contact between the CAP members in the AFROTC unists and the local CAQP Squadron. by CAP NHQ. Florida Wing on the other hand chartered a unit at the University of Florida for cadets and seniors attending the University and included the members that joined the AFROTC-CAP unit. That Squadron known as Headquarters Composite Squadron, SER-FL-002 only lasted 3-4 years but produced more Spaatz cadets than the rest of the Souitheast Region combined. Cadets were transferred back to their home Squadron for the Spaatz presentations.
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
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« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2012, 11:15:28 PM »

As a cadet, most SMs think you're 12, even though you're clearly a 20 year old, third year engineering student that reads the Wall Street Journal (my case).

Most 20 year olds in college have many miles to travel before they will be taken seriously by most adults.  Having to make your own way, write monthly checks, and being responsible for other people's well-being will bring you the authority of experience that college and the WSJ can't.

I know several mature cadets who can walk the line very well, and far too many who believe that just their diamonds give them a moral
imperative to "fix" CAP.   They walk in having been "big cheese" last week, find themselves a SMWOG this week and don't like not standing
at the front of the room, even though their relevant experience wouldn't place them there (yet).

Leading adults is a lot different then leading adolescents.

I guess there's an assumption that just b/c you're in college you're apparently not paying your own way or responsible for anything. In my cadet career my parents paid for exactly zero activities, exactly zero uniform items, and drove me to meetings or activities exactly zero times. Then in college my parents names are on exactly zero of my student loans, and they have paid for exactly zero books and supplies. Let's not be hasty and assume that just b/c someone is 21 years old that they haven't had to write monthly checks or make their own way. Not trying to be hostile, but, that attitude is kind of the problem that I think arises in the SM program of CAP. There is a lot of assuming, not trying to get to know the individual. "You're a cadet? You obviously don't know anything outside of drill and ceremonies." "Oh you're 21 years old? Wait until you're a grown up and have to start paying for things."

I can't remember how many times my CC would ask me how I was planning on paying for an activity or what not and I would say "Well, I'm going to try to work some extra hours and maybe if I can save enough I'll go or maybe I won't be able to go." It's like he couldn't imagine that there was a cadet out there that couldn't just ask his parents for $250.

Once again, not trying to get up in your "grill", I just don't like when people assume something about me. It happened at my SQ, it happens at my school, and now, it happens on CAP Talk.
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Critical AOA
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« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2012, 12:05:26 AM »

FWIW.....the BSA has this same problem....most scouts move on to do other things and then don't get invovled again until they have kids of their own.

But does the BSA have anything for adults besides being a scout master?  CAP does have a lot to offer the adults besides being a SM in CP which could be looked at as the CAP equivalent of a scout master.   
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Eclipse
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« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2012, 12:06:38 AM »

You kinda missed the point on that and went direct to taking it personally.    If you're one of the small percentage of people who,
by either choice or circumstance, had to pay their own way and make it on their own, good on 'ye (x2).

But we're talking at the macro level, and at the macro, not only do few people under 25 pay their own way for anything, its is more
and more common for people to delay leaving the house at all and accept the realities of life.
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Critical AOA
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« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2012, 12:07:45 AM »

I think part of it may be that a fair number of cadets are interested in becoming pilots when they grow up which leads them to CAP.  However, when they're older they realize just how expensive it is to be a pilot, CAP or otherwise, and that reduces their incentive to stay with CAP.

Agreed. One of the things that motivated me to get back into CAP was that I finally did get my pilot license. 
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"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."   - George Bernard Shaw
Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2012, 04:38:02 AM »

You kinda missed the point on that and went direct to taking it personally.    If you're one of the small percentage of people who,
by either choice or circumstance, had to pay their own way and make it on their own, good on 'ye (x2).

But we're talking at the macro level, and at the macro, not only do few people under 25 pay their own way for anything, its is more
and more common for people to delay leaving the house at all and accept the realities of life.

Some of us were dumb and got off the gravy train at 18...
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SarDragon
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« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2012, 04:56:12 AM »

You kinda missed the point on that and went direct to taking it personally.    If you're one of the small percentage of people who,
by either choice or circumstance, had to pay their own way and make it on their own, good on 'ye (x2).

But we're talking at the macro level, and at the macro, not only do few people under 25 pay their own way for anything, its is more
and more common for people to delay leaving the house at all and accept the realities of life.

Some of us were dumb and got off the gravy train at 18...

I was drafted at 20.  8)
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Dave Bowles
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Walkman
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« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2012, 01:01:11 PM »

My son was a cadet and is currently in his 1st semester at college in the town where our original squadron is. He planned on getting back into CAP and going SM, but between classes and working, his time's packed.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2012, 03:00:39 PM »

You kinda missed the point on that and went direct to taking it personally.    If you're one of the small percentage of people who,
by either choice or circumstance, had to pay their own way and make it on their own, good on 'ye (x2).

But we're talking at the macro level, and at the macro, not only do few people under 25 pay their own way for anything, its is more
and more common for people to delay leaving the house at all and accept the realities of life.

Some of us were dumb and got off the gravy train at 18...

I was drafted at 20.  8)

I drafted myself into a relationship. To each his own?  :D
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bosshawk
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« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2012, 04:23:02 PM »

You had a choice: Dave likely didn't.
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Paul M. Reed
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2012, 05:58:20 PM »

Dave always had Canada.  >:D

But speaking of the draft...I had to sign up for the selective service or I wouldn't get my citizenship, yet it seems almost none of my friends have signed up and yet are still not in jail...what gives?
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Why are Cadet Crossover Members so Rare?
 


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