ABU's: Wait, Woah, What About Flight Suit Updates!?!

[AngelWings]

One thing I've noticed is that many people have gone into the mass beating of the undead horse known as the ABU, but no one has really piped about updating the flight suit to be modernized if we do go. So, bear with me, and good god almighty have mercy on me for even bringing up this topic, but...

Do you believe we are going to update the flight suit (in case of ABU's) to have:

ABU undershirt

Sewage system green boots

Cloth name plate

Green socks

And aircraft on the name plates like the USAF name plates (for pilots)?

I am not saying we are or are not, but'd I'd definately like to hear some opinions on it.

[SarDragon]

One thing I've noticed is that many people have gone into the mass beating of the undead horse known as the ABU, but no one has really piped about updating the flight suit to be modernized if we do go. So, bear with me, and good god almighty have mercy on me for even bringing up this topic, but...

Do you believe we are going to update the flight suit (in case of ABU's) to have:

ABU undershirt

No. What's wrong with what we already have? Aren't white, black, and brown enough already? We can't wear green t-shirts with any other uniforms, so it's one more thing to stuff into a drawer that's already overflowing.

Sewage system green boots

No. Higher maintenance for the environment. They suck when it comes to grease, oil, etc.

Cloth name plate

No. Plain cloth burns. Nomex is more expensive, less sturdy, and doesn't embroider well. Got Nomex embroidery thread?

Green socks

No. Why do we need them? What's wrong with black socks? See undershirt coment.

And aircraft on the name plates like the USAF name plates (for pilots)?

Again, why do we need them?

I am not saying we are or are not, but'd I'd definately definitely like to hear some opinions on it.

FTFY.

This entire post is a solution looking for a problem. Unless the problem is "lack of kool", in which case there's still no problem.

New horse, same result.

[Woodsy]

There's no problem with the current flight suit...  It's functional, effective, and it works. 

[RiverAux]

I generally fall into the "follow the AF" camp, but in this case I think most CAP members believe that the current AF-style flight suit is close enough to what the AF has to be all right. 

[Walkman]

Interesting side note:
Last week we had a guest speaker come in for AE, a CW2 that flies Medevac Blackhawks for the NG. He was wearing what I thought was a normal set of ACUs. He told us he was wearing the new Army flight suit, which was the normal ACU style top & bottoms, but made from Nomex. He really didn't like them. Said the blouse tends to ride up under the body armor and other flight gear and leave portions of skin without the Nomex protection, and that overall it wasn't as comfortable.

Back to your regularly scheduled uniform thread...

[jeders]

I think that IF we get the ABU with sage green boots (I do like the sewage system green name though) I think that they will likely be authorized with the flight suit, same with the ABU shirt. However, I don't think that either will, or should, be mandatory with the flight suit.

I don't see a need for the cloth name badge, though I'm not against it. However, the Air Force has in the not too distant past said, "No Way." So I don't think that's gonna happen.

The one change I would really like to see is full color grade on green cloth to replace our current plastic encased insignia. Yes, I know it reaches back to our past, but I would prefer having function over heritage in this case.

[Garibaldi]

In my travels, I've come across so many uniform violations that I wonder WHY we even HAVE a 39-1 if no one is going to enforce it. At encampment, I came across one individual who had subdued major rank on his collar as well as his subdued army badges above the Civil Air Patrol tape, and a subdued Ranger tab above the wing patch. Now, since he obviously earned the Ranger tab, who the heck am I to tell him he can't wear it, or even how to? And another gentleman had his marksman medal proudly pinned to his blues shirt. Who am I to tell them they're wrong? At SAREXs, I've seen pilots wear the sage green boots with their flight suit, and others with custom made name patches on their flight suits, mimicking the AF patch. And our AF LO was there and obviously was aware of these things.

My opinion is this...do you really want to be THAT GUY? Either the guy who wears it improperly or the one who says you're wearing it improperly? I know that if someone, CAP or not, told me I was wearing my uniform improperly, I would probably go on the offensive. Yes, I am a uniform nutzi but that only applies to cadets, who are being judged on their ability to properly place their insignia.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. Flame away.

[jeders]

My opinion is this...do you really want to be THAT GUY? ... the one who says you're wearing it improperly?

Yes. If no one points it out, then they will continue doing it wrong. They will continue embarrassing themselves and CAP.

I know that if someone, CAP or not, told me I was wearing my uniform improperly, I would probably go on the offensive. Yes, I am a uniform nutzi but that only applies to cadets, who are being judged on their ability to properly place their insignia.

So Seniors aren't subject to the rules? Cool. I'm gonna go get drunk and fly a CAP aircraft at 100 feet off the ground now while I wear my sewage system green boots and orange beret.

[Garibaldi]

My opinion is this...do you really want to be THAT GUY? ... the one who says you're wearing it improperly?

Yes. If no one points it out, then they will continue doing it wrong. They will continue embarrassing themselves and CAP.

I know that if someone, CAP or not, told me I was wearing my uniform improperly, I would probably go on the offensive. Yes, I am a uniform nutzi but that only applies to cadets, who are being judged on their ability to properly place their insignia.

So Seniors aren't subject to the rules? Cool. I'm gonna go get drunk and fly a CAP aircraft at 100 feet off the ground now while I wear my sewage system green boots and orange beret.

A little extreme, isn't that? What makes you think that I was implying that only cadets had to follow the rules? My exact sentence, if you can read it, said that "Yes, I am a uniform nutzi, but that only applies to cadets, who are being judged on their ability to properly place their insignia"

How do you equate that to getting s-faced and driving a Cessna around? I don't get it.

[Майор Хаткевич]

In my travels, I've come across so many uniform violations that I wonder WHY we even HAVE a 39-1 if no one is going to enforce it. At encampment, I came across one individual who had subdued major rank on his collar as well as his subdued army badges above the Civil Air Patrol tape, and a subdued Ranger tab above the wing patch. Now, since he obviously earned the Ranger tab, who the heck am I to tell him he can't wear it, or even how to?

Someone who is helping a fellow member, and mentions that those items are not authorized by CAP. They have to play by the rules or not at all.

And another gentleman had his marksman medal proudly pinned to his blues shirt. Who am I to tell them they're wrong?

See above.

At SAREXs, I've seen pilots wear the sage green boots with their flight suit, and others with custom made name patches on their flight suits, mimicking the AF patch. And our AF LO was there and obviously was aware of these things.

See above x2

My opinion is this...do you really want to be THAT GUY? Either the guy who wears it improperly or the one who says you're wearing it improperly?

I am THAT guy. As a cadet I had no problem coming up to a SM, and RESPECTFULLY letting them know if they had a problem with their uniform. Don't get me started on cadets. What can they possibly tell me? I'm wrong? Then I'll pull up CAPM 39-1 and the ICLs to prove my point. Someone has got to do it.

I know that if someone, CAP or not, told me I was wearing my uniform improperly, I would probably go on the offensive.

Or you know, act like an adult, ask to see confirmation if you don't believe it, and change anything that is wrong.

Yes, I am a uniform nutzi but that only applies to cadets, who are being judged on their ability to properly place their insignia.

I never judge cadets on their ability to place insignia. I judge them on their attention to detail. Same with SMs and let me tell you, most of the time their uniforms look like CRAP.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. Flame away.

Done.

[Garibaldi]

Well, how do you go about it without looking like a total d-bag? Quote regs? Go on and on about "the good of the outfit"? I really want to know.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Well, how do you go about it without looking like a total d-bag? Quote regs? Go on and on about "the good of the outfit"? I really want to know.

I come up to them in private, and given the situation either let them know that "x is wrong/off/incorrect" or "Sir what's that?" followed by "That isn't authorized by CAP for wear". If I get push back (rarely), then I promise to show it to them in the manual.

It doesn't have to be Mortal Combat.

[Garibaldi]

Well, how do you go about it without looking like a total d-bag? Quote regs? Go on and on about "the good of the outfit"? I really want to know.

I come up to them in private, and given the situation either let them know that "x is wrong/off/incorrect" or "Sir what's that?" followed by "That isn't authorized by CAP for wear". If I get push back (rarely), then I promise to show it to them in the manual.

It doesn't have to be Mortal Combat.

I'm not saying it should. I just can't do it.

[jeders]

My opinion is this...do you really want to be THAT GUY? ... the one who says you're wearing it improperly?

Yes. If no one points it out, then they will continue doing it wrong. They will continue embarrassing themselves and CAP.

I know that if someone, CAP or not, told me I was wearing my uniform improperly, I would probably go on the offensive. Yes, I am a uniform nutzi but that only applies to cadets, who are being judged on their ability to properly place their insignia.

So Seniors aren't subject to the rules? Cool. I'm gonna go get drunk and fly a CAP aircraft at 100 feet off the ground now while I wear my sewage system green boots and orange beret.

A little extreme, isn't that? What makes you think that I was implying that only cadets had to follow the rules? My exact sentence, if you can read it, said that "Yes, I am a uniform nutzi, but that only applies to cadets, who are being judged on their ability to properly place their insignia"

How do you equate that to getting s-faced and driving a Cessna around? I don't get it.

You said that only cadets are being judged, which infers that the uniform manual only applies to cadets. If one manual only applies to cadets, why not all of our regs? Of course we know that this isn't true. My hyperbole was simply a tool to point that out. Seniors are subject to and need to be held to the same standard as cadets in regard to uniforms.

Well, how do you go about it without looking like a total d-bag? Quote regs? Go on and on about "the good of the outfit"? I really want to know.

It's called tact. As usafaux2004 said, you take the person aside and politely point out that what they are wearing is wrong, and you offer to help them.

[Garibaldi]

I'm out.

[Phillip]

The one change I would really like to see is full color grade on green cloth to replace our current plastic encased insignia. Yes, I know it reaches back to our past, but I would prefer having function over heritage in this case.

I think we have little chance of full color on green rank insignia getting approved.  Full color on ultramarine blue (as used on the BDUs) stands a better chance.

[arajca]

The one change I would really like to see is full color grade on green cloth to replace our current plastic encased insignia. Yes, I know it reaches back to our past, but I would prefer having function over heritage in this case.

I think we have little chance of full color on green rank insignia getting approved.  Full color on ultramarine blue (as used on the BDUs) stands a better chance.

Full color on navy almost got approved, but Vanguard found a new supplier of the plastic encased insignia.

[jeders]

The one change I would really like to see is full color grade on green cloth to replace our current plastic encased insignia. Yes, I know it reaches back to our past, but I would prefer having function over heritage in this case.

I think we have little chance of full color on green rank insignia getting approved.  Full color on ultramarine blue (as used on the BDUs) stands a better chance.

A guy can dream.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Why can't they sell the [darn] things with the holes for the thread pre-made?

Sure I can heat a needle and make them myself but...[darn]!

[AngelWings]

I think it'd be cool if we were allowed to wear the sewage system green or desert man boots. Why? They're like slippers compared to the black boots I've worn, and the desert man ones are definately superior to durability compared to the sewage system green boots.

As for the tan undershirt, I would like it. They're comfortable, the collar keeps up, they're long enough to keep tucked in when you bend over, and they're high quality.

Cloth name badges are cool looking. Yes, I said it. I think it is ok for some things to be picked on looking cool as long as it isn't throwing out practical things. We don't need fireproof protection, so I don't have a gripe. Plus, cotton is an approved flight fabric, so it's functional. As someone said before, let a guy dream!

If we could do full subdued rank insignia, I'd like it. If we don't, I don't care. If we go blue, I will throw up.

It does not affect me at all, so I have no true reason to care about it.