ABU's: Wait, Woah, What About Flight Suit Updates!?!

[RogueLeader]

I have a pair of 15 year old boots that are still serviceable and a pair of 2 year old temperate weather tan boots that are not.  However, my tans are way more comfortable than my black boots.  So, I wear my tan ones on a a daily basis (I'm not in the military anymore, so I can.)

T-Shirts, I still like the army brown t-shirts myself, tans I could live without.  Brown T-shirts look better with Multi-Cam too

[Go_Blue]

And aircraft on the name plates like the USAF name plates (for pilots)?

For the record, this is not the case for all USAF pilots.  Secondly, a good majority of the fliers I know hated the USAF's move to sage green boots and ABU shirt.  They were very happy in the black shirt/black boot combo, because it looked good and was perfectly functional.  That's the key.  The changes suggested in this thread serve zero purpose other than to look like the AF, which I'm not understanding (forgive me, I'm new).  The CAP has a unique heritage on its own - why bother trying to look exactly like the AF?  What is the point?  Does it get your mission done better?  I think if anything, it just creates more confusion.  Uniforms are already very close, any closer and you might as well join the AF.

Lastly, in case it hasn't been beaten to death 1,000 times already, the ABU is a terrible uniform.  It's barely functional as is, I can't imagine why anyone would pine after it and waste their energy. 

[Al Sayre]

Nothing says they have to be black combat boots, or even boots for that matter. 

CAPM 39-1 Table 2-4
3 - Footwear - Any style leather, plain, black shoe or boot may be worn. No western style boots (Ropers and Wellingtons are acceptable). For safety reasons,mesh style boots are not recommended with flying clothing.

I wear black Ropers, they're pretty comfortable

[AngelWings]

And aircraft on the name plates like the USAF name plates (for pilots)?

For the record, this is not the case for all USAF pilots.  Secondly, a good majority of the fliers I know hated the USAF's move to sage green boots and ABU shirt.  They were very happy in the black shirt/black boot combo, because it looked good and was perfectly functional.  That's the key.  The changes suggested in this thread serve zero purpose other than to look like the AF, which I'm not understanding (forgive me, I'm new).  The CAP has a unique heritage on its own - why bother trying to look exactly like the AF?  What is the point?  Does it get your mission done better?  I think if anything, it just creates more confusion.  Uniforms are already very close, any closer and you might as well join the AF.

Lastly, in case it hasn't been beaten to death 1,000 times already, the ABU is a terrible uniform.  It's barely functional as is, I can't imagine why anyone would pine after it and waste their energy.

I agree, my point of posting this was not to endorse change but to bring up something that I don't believe has been really discussed. The whole point of this post was to get people thinking about the ABU mess in a different light. My personal preference is tan boots. They're comfortable and I have been able to rub out fuel stains, oil, blood, and dirt and keep them looking good. Not something I've ever heard done with the sewage system (and ugly) boots.

As for the heritage, our heritage has historically followed the USAF in uniform appearence. That'd be one of the main reasons for a change.

Nothing says they have to be black combat boots, or even boots for that matter. 

CAPM 39-1 Table 2-4
3 - Footwear - Any style leather, plain, black shoe or boot may be worn. No western style boots (Ropers and Wellingtons are acceptable). For safety reasons,mesh style boots are not recommended with flying clothing.

I wear black Ropers, they're pretty comfortable

I'm not a cowboy! I have never even seen them, but then again I live on the east coast on the shore.

I have a pair of 15 year old boots that are still serviceable and a pair of 2 year old temperate weather tan boots that are not.  However, my tans are way more comfortable than my black boots.  So, I wear my tan ones on a a daily basis (I'm not in the military anymore, so I can.)

T-Shirts, I still like the army brown t-shirts myself, tans I could live without.  Brown T-shirts look better with Multi-Cam too

Army brown is one of my favorite colors, but I can't find any more of them nearby my local area!

[MIKE]

The USAF authorizes the standard tan t-shirt under the flightsuit?  IIRC the issue ones are 100% polyester.  The Army  had/has an interesting solution, the 100% cotton shirts are green.

[jayleswo]

The AF Personnel Center has some very nice graphics depicting current USAF uniforms which now includes an Informal Uniform (blue polo/khaki trousers - I kid you not). Click on the uniform and you get wear instructions. Very cool.  CAP should have a similar chart (I am not aware of one).

So, forget ABU's, I want to know when we are transitioning from gray trousers to the Informal Uniform! ;-)

http://www.afpc.af.mil/dress/uniforms.asp

-- John

[AngelWings]

The USAF authorizes the standard tan t-shirt under the flightsuit?  IIRC the issue ones are 100% polyester.  The Army  had/has an interesting solution, the 100% cotton shirts are green.

Yeah, sadly. I love the look of the green shirt, my squadron meets next to a blackhawk squadron, but man, I don't know how that is going to look! You'd be a real pickle with the green flight suit, green boots, and green undershirt!

[RiverAux]

I do have to say that I'm surprised that this particular discrepancy between CAP and AF hasn't really been brought up before.

There have been plenty of flight suit discussions and probably a few mentioned differences between CAP and AF but IIRC no one has asked before why no one on CAPTalk has gotten into a tizzy about it before.

[RogueLeader]

IIRC no one has asked before why no one on CAPTalk has gotten into a tizzy about it before.

Because its in the realm of the Zipper Suited Sun Gods and we don't talk about them.  Even if we are aircrew.

[Al Sayre]

Nothing says they have to be black combat boots, or even boots for that matter. 

CAPM 39-1 Table 2-4
3 - Footwear - Any style leather, plain, black shoe or boot may be worn. No western style boots (Ropers and Wellingtons are acceptable). For safety reasons,mesh style boots are not recommended with flying clothing.

I wear black Ropers, they're pretty comfortable

I'm not a cowboy! I have never even seen them, but then again I live on the east coast on the shore.

Ropers are not "Cowboy Boots" they are a pull on duty boot.  They have wider more rounded toe, and generally a shorter upper section, similar to Wellingtons. 
Here's a linkhttp://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/mens-guide-gear-roper-boots-black.aspx?a=614059

[AngelWings]

Nothing says they have to be black combat boots, or even boots for that matter. 

CAPM 39-1 Table 2-4
3 - Footwear - Any style leather, plain, black shoe or boot may be worn. No western style boots (Ropers and Wellingtons are acceptable). For safety reasons,mesh style boots are not recommended with flying clothing.

I wear black Ropers, they're pretty comfortable

I'm not a cowboy! I have never even seen them, but then again I live on the east coast on the shore.

Ropers are not "Cowboy Boots" they are a pull on duty boot.  They have wider more rounded toe, and generally a shorter upper section, similar to Wellingtons. 
Here's a linkhttp://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/mens-guide-gear-roper-boots-black.aspx?a=614059

I see, I've always thought Roper was a cowboy boot company, and the term western threw me off. 

[SarDragon]

Roper is a brand, as well as a style. I've also heard the style referred to as Wellingtons, but that currently seems to apply mostly to waterproof gear.

There are ropers available that are even less western looking than Al's link. Bates used to have them, and I wore them in the Navy for a while. There are pros and cons, and I eventually quit wearing them because they weren't available with a safety toe.

[rmutchler]

The AF Personnel Center has some very nice graphics depicting current USAF uniforms which now includes an Informal Uniform (blue polo/khaki trousers - I kid you not). Click on the uniform and you get wear instructions. Very cool.  CAP should have a similar chart (I am not aware of one).

So, forget ABU's, I want to know when we are transitioning from gray trousers to the Informal Uniform! ;-)

http://www.afpc.af.mil/dress/uniforms.asp

-- John

CAP Needs to make a web version of 39-1 that looks like that page!  It would make the uniform standards easier to understand and explain to people.

[abdsp51]

That link is awesome for the basic uniform information, but does not completely encompass AFI36-2903.  This would be an awesome for CAP but we need to update/rewrite CAPM39-1 before we throw together a web page that has the uniforms displayed on it.  And it should not as with the Air Force link be used as the know all for uniforms. 

[Smokey]

As for the boots....I'd like the "sewage green" because after 40 years of polishing boots, I'd like to use that time for other things (I wear a uniform at work so....I have 3 sets of boots/shoes to polish).

Cloth rank makes sense....we have plastic because the Air Force wore plastic.  They moved on to sensible insignia and CAP stayed in the dark ages. First, the plastic stuff is hard to sew on. Second, I've seen moisture get inside and ruin the insignia (it's not metal folks) or permanently fog it up.  It doesn't have to be subdued..it can be full color like the Navy.  But the cloth is cheaper, easier to sew, looks good and Vanguard had a hard time finding a manufacturer (part of the reason the cost is so high---no one else uses the darn things.)

As for socks...who sees them?   

[PHall]

And aircraft on the name plates like the USAF name plates (for pilots)?

For the record, this is not the case for all USAF pilots. 

Mainly because it's a Wing Commander approved option. Different Wings have different designs and many wings don't even bother.
They would rather spend their scarce supply funds on something that actually helps them do their jobs, like flight suits.

[LGM30GMCC]

Wait...people get their name tags bought for them?

You lucky...

I've had to buy all but one of my name tags.

[PHall]

Wait...people get their name tags bought for them?

You lucky...

I've had to buy all but one of my name tags.

Yeah, most flying squadrons buy your cloth name tags for you, at least the first set.

[Hawk200]

In my travels, I've come across so many uniform violations that I wonder WHY we even HAVE a 39-1 if no one is going to enforce it.

Thought the same thing a time or two myself.

At encampment, I came across one individual who had subdued major rank on his collar as well as his subdued army badges above the Civil Air Patrol tape, and a subdued Ranger tab above the wing patch.

Out of those mentioned, only the subdued badges above the CAP tape are authorized (CAPM 39-1, Table 6-4, Item 19).

I've seen a few mavericks that have worn subdued collar insignia, and I've said something about it. Got blown off a couple of times, but one fixed it between the first time I saw him, and the next time. He didn't know any better.

An Army Ranger tab is a no-no, period.

There are certain marksmanship badges that are authorized on the CAP uniform, and are listed in Table 6-5. Service marksmanship badges are not authorized, meaning if it's awarded as a regular qualification, it's likely a service badge. Civilian Marksmanship Program badges are (they're listed in the table as "Excellence in Competitiion" or "Distinguished" badges.) A good rule of thumb is that if it says "Navy" or "Air Force;" it would be authorized because there aren't any service marksmanship badges for those branches.  It's been a while since I've looked up those badges, but I don't recall at the moment if there are Coast Guard EIC and Distinguished badges.

As to the footwear, I've worn Ropers with blues and flightsuits for years. Very comfortable, shine well, and most of the time, no one knows I'm not wearing low quarters.

[Al Sayre]

Wait...people get their name tags bought for them?

You lucky...

I've had to buy all but one of my name tags.

Yeah, most flying squadrons buy your cloth name tags for you, at least the first set.

Yeah, but you probably aren't going to like the callsign...