Back to Blues at the Pentagon

[dogboy]

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates has told his military aides not to wear combat fatigues to work at the Pentagon any more, reversing a symbolic change of protocol ordered in the harrowing days after the attacks of Sept. 11.

.... Mr. Gates had directed his military staff to shed their fatigues in favor of business uniforms — the smartly pressed ones bedecked with combat medals and service ribbons that are the military equivalent of civilian coat-and-tie, worn with dress shoes, not combat boots.

<snip>

.... with the new protocol, Mr. Gates has restored a more official appearance to military culture in its conduct of day-to-day business, at least within his own office, where foreign ministers and chiefs of defense arrive in suits and the equivalent in military uniforms of their home nations.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/us/politics/19pentagon.html?hpw

[Rotorhead]

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates has told his military aides not to wear combat fatigues to work at the Pentagon any more, reversing a symbolic change of protocol ordered in the harrowing days after the attacks of Sept. 11.

.... Mr. Gates had directed his military staff to shed their fatigues in favor of business uniforms — the smartly pressed ones bedecked with combat medals and service ribbons that are the military equivalent of civilian coat-and-tie, worn with dress shoes, not combat boots.

<snip>

.... with the new protocol, Mr. Gates has restored a more official appearance to military culture in its conduct of day-to-day business, at least within his own office, where foreign ministers and chiefs of defense arrive in suits and the equivalent in military uniforms of their home nations.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/us/politics/19pentagon.html?hpw

This is a good move.

ABUs and ACUs or BDUs or whatever are not office-wear. They are field uniforms.

[Gunner C]

This is going to impact morale.  There's nothing worse than having to put together a dress uniform every day.  Even if it's only pants and a shirt - the combat uniforms are more comfortable.  Having worked in the Pentagon area, the service members actually look better in those than they will in dressier uniforms.  These folks work 12 hour days - dress blues, and their other services' equivalents, will look pretty bad at the end of the day.  The days of playing dress-up every day are long gone.  Let the ceremonial types wear the ceremonial uniforms and look pretty.  The folks who are making sure that the beans and bullets are getting to the troops don't open the doors for visitors and are unseen by dignitaries.

[heliodoc]

Say whay you would like....Gunner is right

But SecDef runs the show and even after 5 yrs being away from the RM uniform........ No matter what CAP says.....

ACU's vs the dog and pony show uni are going to create some consternation...

But you know what?   It won't be the CAP uniform chirp a thon.   Oh wait a minute....it will be..... but the US soldier is getting paid to meet those standards set.  Unfortunately, dress uni on folks doing the work not often seen, as Gunner describes, and what I have observed in the past, really serve no purpose except more for the dry cleaning bill or at the very least laundry, sizing, and the real waste of time ironing the dress "rags."

For you CAPers......don your blues EVERY day this week and make sure it is squared away. I know some of you are probably secretly wearing it now admiring yourselves in the mirror wishing you were at the Pentagon just to get a chance to wear dress unis more than once this week

[AirAux]

So, I guess Gunner feels that all of the GS civilian pentagon types should wear blue jeans and polo shirts to work??  Perhaps that is why he doesn't "qualify" for those GS jobs he wants instead of his theory of that the Government types are always giving them to their "buddies"??  No personal slam at Gunner, per se, just that his theories are confusing me..

[Major Carrales]

Stand down everyone. 

Here is the simple fact, Washington, DC rivals only New York City as the "suit and tie" capital of the world for professional business.  It is not out of line to expect a service coat or, as very least, button downed service dress with a tie in that environment.

I could likely point out to all those "scream-typing" about flight suit and BDUs being used in the correct settings that Service Dress uniforms are proper office attire.

As for "impacting morale," no this will not lose us the war.  It has been my understanding that, in terms of the military, "salute and execute" is the order of the day.  Having to put together a squared away uniform, as I have to put together a shirt and tie everyday for my work that is not stained or wrinkled, is not a "burden" it is an point of "personal pride."  A military uniform is, should be, even moreso. 

That may be an opinion on my part, but if wearing the prescribed uniform of one's service is too much of an annoyance; then I question that person's resolve.  Why?  Because when you agree to be part of something, from scout troop up to solemn ceremonial Military guard, you agree to adhere to its standards, practices and rules. 

[Rotorhead]

This is going to impact morale.  There's nothing worse than having to put together a dress uniform every day.  Even if it's only pants and a shirt - the combat uniforms are more comfortable. 

Millions of civilians do this every day when they go to work.

If dressing as a professional affects morale, then there's a bigger problem to be addressed.

[Cecil DP]

For many years the policy was that all military in the Military and Air Force  District of Washington were required to wear the Class A uniforms whenever appearing in public. The impetus for this new  policy may be that many congressman have been telling Pentagon briefers that utility type uniforms were not appropriate when appearing or testifying before congressional committees.   

[Gunner C]

For many years, military in DC, not assigned to military posts but to Pentagon and other such places, only wore uniforms on Wednesday.  It was the edict of Admiral Elmo Zumwalt - he felt the DC area looked like an armed camp.  The military loved it.  Yes, they wore suits and ties instead, but there's a big difference between that and a uniform.  No brass, no ribbons, shoes could be comfortable.  Of course they went back to uniforms later, but the difference was clear.  My father was one of those guys - he'd never really worn a suit in his life and got a kick out of not having to worry if "this is wrinkled" or if "that was straight."  Huge difference.

Now, if I were king, the civilians wouldn't wear ties.  In some places like the Defense Intelligence Agency, they're specifically told to not wear a tie.  Feeling a bit more casual takes some of the edge off of very high stress jobs.

[Flying Pig]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0CprVYsG0k&feature=related

Because we all know formality is the order of the day in DC! 

[Spike]

Wow.  Since most Pentagon types are heading up the Defense Department or working in their offices, they should be in a dress uniform.  A shirt, tie and trousers is nothing to assemble, and most can even have three or four sets hanging in the closet. 

I think those that have gotten used to not wearing their dress uniforms will need a few weeks to "readjust", but it will present a more professional image.

That is what this is all about, professional image.  I also agree with the above post about Congress not liking the military officials coming to testify before them in combat uniforms.  That looked like crap, and was disrespectful to the civilian leadership of the United States. 

[Thrashed]

If they don't like wearing uniforms or taking orders, they shouldn't have joined the military. 

[Flying Pig]

I dont think it has anything to do with not liking uniforms or not liking to take orders.  I think its time for the military to go back to service uniforms in DC.  Honestly, the old BDUs could be starched, pressed and spit shinned,  and looked squared away.  The new uniforms, ABU, ACU and MARPATS look like crap in garrison.  They are GREAT in the field, but not for daily duties in the nations capitol.  And comparing a service uniform with a suit and tie is a big negative.  NOT the same thing.
If Im not mistaken though, the Marines never went with it to begin with.  The continued to wear service uniforms and only wore MARPATs if it was duty specific.

[raivo]

I'm assuming "business uniforms" means "service dress."

Really, putting on your service dress coat over your blues shirt isn't that big of a deal. Especially since I'm pretty sure everyone will be hanging it up when they're actually sitting at their desks.

[Flying Pig]

The times I have been at the Pentagon, it was mainly Class C's or whatever each service calls them.  Short sleeve shirt version.

[Short Field]

When I was assigned to the Pentagon, the USAF wore the short blue shirt without tie in the summer and the long sleeve blue shirt with tie in the winter (optional for summer wear).  You always had your tie and service blouse ready in case you needed to interface with the senior leadership. 

[Spike]

When I was assigned to the Pentagon, the USAF wore the short blue shirt without tie in the summer and the long sleeve blue shirt with tie in the winter (optional for summer wear).  You always had your tie and service blouse ready in case you needed to interface with the senior leadership.

Did it cause low moral??  Did you hate waking up each day and putting your uniform on??

There is no reason it should have been nixed in the first place, and there is more reason to get back into service dress now. 

[Short Field]

Silly question.  If a person has problems wearing the service dress, they really have some serious problems. 

[Spike]

Silly question.  If a person has problems wearing the service dress, they really have some serious problems.

Nail hit on the head!

To bring this around to CAP (for the mods, so there is no lock), what is more prevalent among Senior Members in your squadrons when "dress up night" comes around.  In my Squadron I allow members 6 months to assemble the basic uniform, either gray or AF style.  (We also will assist those with financial problems as well).  Once a month all of my Officers (Senior Members) and Cadets are required to wear service dress.  Also, when any of my Officers interface with the Air Force Base Commander or his subordinate offices (Group Command and Squadron Commanders) I require AF style or Corporate Dress.  The Blue polo is almost unseen in my Squadron, unless we are working with the military and their uniform is a polo.

Requiring appropriate dress presents such a professional image in the eyes of the AF, and I have been told so by Colonels and Airman alike.

So, is it Polo's/ BDU's for every meeting or do you wear something more "good looking"??

[Short Field]

Silly question.  If a person has problems wearing the service dress, they really have some serious problems.

Once a month all of my Officers (Senior Members) and Cadets are required to wear service dress. 

Please define "service dress".  Is it the white/grey corporate uniform or the AF style blue uniform?  Service Blouse?