Can Senior Members go from GTM3 directly to GTL?

[radar207]

If so, please let me know how this is done and where in the regs it's found.  Thank you.

[Eclipse]

Yes.

You are then a GTL at the "3" level, and anyone on your team drops to that level as well.

How its "done" is by completing the tasks on the GTL SQTR.

Its in the 60's.

[IceNine]

Anyone over 18 can go from GTM 1,2, or 3 directly to GTL.

I don't recommend it, it seriously limits the missions you can lead teams on.


You can find more information in CAPR 60-3

[lordmonar]

If so, please let me know how this is done and where in the regs it's found.  Thank you.

The preqs for GTL are GTM3 and 18 years old.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Anyone over 18 can go from GTM 1,2, or 3 directly to GTL.

I don't recommend it, it seriously limits the missions you can lead teams on.

You can find more information in CAPR 60-3

I see no reason why not to work on GTM1/2 and GTL at the same time. Yes a GTL with only GTM3 limits his/her team to GTM3 but that covers a lot of missions.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Yes.

You are then a GTL at the "3" level, and anyone on your team drops to that level as well.

How its "done" is by completing the tasks on the GTL SQTR.

Its in the 60's.

Actually in 60-3 in the appendix, if you lead a team as a GTL, you get credit for GTL, GTM1-3.

As a GTL you you are supposed to have the knowledge of GTM1-3, even if there is a loophole built into the system, by going from GTM3 to GTL.

[Eclipse]

Non-concur.

You get equivalency credit for qualifications you already have under that row - don't possess it, you don't get it.

I also disagree that a GT3 with a GTL is supposed to know anything other than GT3 stuff.  Since the team drops to his level, there's no requirement.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Non-concur.

You get equivalency credit for qualifications you already have under that row - don't possess it, you don't get it.

I also disagree that a GT3 with a GTL is supposed to know anything other than GT3 stuff.  Since the team drops to his level, there's no requirement.

Did they remove the appendix?  I can't find it now......

[lordmonar]

Anyone over 18 can go from GTM 1,2, or 3 directly to GTL.

I don't recommend it, it seriously limits the missions you can lead teams on.


You can find more information in CAPR 60-3

A GTL is a GTL.....there is no need to be a GTL and a GTM1 to go on supposed GT1 missions.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Anyone over 18 can go from GTM 1,2, or 3 directly to GTL.

I don't recommend it, it seriously limits the missions you can lead teams on.

You can find more information in CAPR 60-3

A GTL is a GTL.....there is no need to be a GTL and a GTM1 to go on supposed GT1 missions.

A ground team may only conduct operations within the limits of training of its lowest qualified member. A member qualified at one level, and having supervised trainee status for a higher level may be used operationally at the higher level if the trainee is properly equipped and supervised.

It would not make sense for this the exclude the GTL. He/she would have to be able to operate at the level of the team. So in theory the GTL/GTM2* could be supervised by a GTM2 as far as the GTM2 training but still be in command. Strange but no stranger than a 20 year old cadet GTL being supervised by an 18 year old senior member GTM3*

[RiverAux]

A GTL has completed all of the GTL tasks whether they went from GT3 to GTL or from GT3-GT2-GT1-GTL.  The only difference is that the GT3-GTL leader probably has less experience since they would not have been required to do as many missions. 

The limitation on operations applies only to the least qualified GTM. 

[flyguy06]

Ok, i am not a big GT gut but I was looking at the SQTR's. The reqs for GTM 1 and 2 are the same for GTL, so if you complete GTL why arent you automatically a GTM 1 and 2?

[davedove]

Back to the original question, yes you can go directly from GTM-3 to GTL, unless your wing has a supplement requiring something else.  For instance, Maryland requires GTM-2.

[davedove]

Ok, i am not a big GT gut but I was looking at the SQTR's. The reqs for GTM 1 and 2 are the same for GTL, so if you complete GTL why arent you automatically a GTM 1 and 2?

Because they are different specialties and you therefore need the misison credits for them.  However, many of the tasks do carry over.

[lordmonar]

Ok, i am not a big GT gut but I was looking at the SQTR's. The reqs for GTM 1 and 2 are the same for GTL, so if you complete GTL why arent you automatically a GTM 1 and 2?

Because they are different specialties and you therefore need the misison credits for them.  However, many of the tasks do carry over.

Here's the kicker.....there is no need to maintain the GTM rateing once you have GTL.

Just as there is no need to maintain a scanner rateing once you get MP.

[sardak]

In going from GTM3 to GTL directly, which is OK per the reg as others have stated, five tasks are missed.

O-0202 - Measure Distance with Pace Count - GTM2 only
O-0203 - Navigate Past an Obstacle - GTM2 only
O-0401 - Work with Canine Search Teams - GTM1 only
O-0701 - Recognize and React to Air/Ground Signals - GTM1 only
O-0703 - Employ Air/Ground Signals - GTM1 only

Also, all the UDF tasks except one, O-0010 Prepare Urban DF Team Individual Equipment, are part of GTM3 or GTL.

These missed tasks as part of the GTL rating are an oversight and not intentional. The intent is that a GTL has completed all the GTM/UDF tasks in order to lead any team regardless of the individual members' ratings.

Mike

[flyguy06]

I can do those five tasks in about an hour. Or am I missing somethig?

[Eclipse]

I can do those five tasks in about an hour. Or am I missing something?

No one said it was rocket science, but you still have to do them.  None of the GT curriculum is overly complicated,
and most of the tasks are simple and easy to accomplish if you are prepared and understand the requirements.

You really need an airplane to do the a/g signals correctly, but the rest could be done at a unit meeting.

You also need 4 additional missions.

Edit: Those are the tasks that are missed in the going from 3 to GTL, not the GTL tasks.

[Angus]

If your schedule permits, I'd just go to NESA for the GTL School.  I went through it back 2008 and you learn a lot.  You also come out with the GT2, GT1, and UDF.  That way you're not limited.  Plus you're learning from the people who litterally wrote the book. 

[Short Field]

Non-concur.
You get equivalency credit for qualifications you already have under that row - don't possess it, you don't get it.
I also disagree that a GT3 with a GTL is supposed to know anything other than GT3 stuff.  Since the team drops to his level, there's no requirement.

Did they remove the appendix?  I can't find it now......

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/emergency_services/operations_support/education_and_training/sortie_equivalency.cfm