Hawk Mountain Ranger School

[CadetProgramGuy]

Take a look at these pics:

Cadets and seniors (with blackouts, on purpose) that show HM garb on AF uniforms.

I even like the Capt in Tan boots......

http://yfrog.com/dy035qujx

[davidsinn]

Yes, keeping in mind they are completely different than the US Army RANGER tab.

Exmples from the Hock Shop: http://www.thehock.com/shop/?cat=44&shop=1

And as for NBB and Hawk Mountain Uniform items, they have been approved for wear with/on the BDU Green or Blue uniform by the National Board.
They are forbidden with/on any AF Blues Combination.

Until the AF signs off on it they can not be worn on woodland BDUs. However that hasn't stopped anyone from doing it.

Several in our wing have it on BDU's.....Cadets and Seniors.....

Then again CAP NHQ did put out the ICL on Blue Beret and HM gear approving it for wear.

Only on the Corp. uniforms. The AF style is pending AF approval.

While that is very true, I'm pretty sure I can find pics of BDU's with Ranger garb......

I've seen it with my own eyes...

[RogueLeader]

Still doesn't mean it is correct. . . .

[TACP]

The 2006 National board passed a motion to allow NBB/Hawk Mtn patches/Beret to be worn with Blue/Green BDUs. What is needed for the final 'good to go' and how long does that take?

[SarDragon]

The 2006 National board passed a motion to allow NBB/Hawk Mtn patches/Beret to be worn with Blue/Green BDUs. What is needed for the final 'good to go' and how long does that take?

The AF needs to formally approve it.

How long is halfway?

[davidsinn]

The 2006 National board passed a motion to allow NBB/Hawk Mtn patches/Beret to be worn with Blue/Green BDUs. What is needed for the final 'good to go' and how long does that take?

An act of God? The AF must give permission and an update to 39-1 or an ICL as is the current fashion would need to be written. Until then the ranger tabs are not allowed even though many people do it.

[Dracosbane]

I've seen it with my own eyes...

+1

I even called the cadet on it at a wing function, and his response was that his unit CC authorized it.  I wasn't going to push the issue further, but I knew even that was incorrect.  I respect the young man otherwise, but that stuck in my craw.  As far as I remember in my CAP career, the rules for the tabs, etc., haven't changed.  Perhaps it's time to set the definition clearly.

Edit to add:  Same activity had a SM wearing a blue beret with NBB hat device.  I held my tongue on that, too.

[davidsinn]

I've seen it with my own eyes...

+1

I even called the cadet on it at a wing function, and his response was that his unit CC authorized it.  I wasn't going to push the issue further, but I knew even that was incorrect.  I respect the young man otherwise, but that stuck in my craw.  As far as I remember in my CAP career, the rules for the tabs, etc., haven't changed.  Perhaps it's time to set the definition clearly.

Edit to add:  Same activity had a SM wearing a blue beret with NBB hat device.  I held my tongue on that, too.

I think I know who you are talking about and that is authorized although the regs could be a bit clearer on that.

[sarmed1]

The aircrew survival course has been going on for about a year.  Its been on 2 differant weekends and during the summer school.  So far the participation has been limited (suprisingly...aircrew types arent fond of going out of the comfort zone)....I know that there were very good things to be said from the participatns during the summer school.  All of the instructors were current AD/RES military aircrew types that have a HMRS background.
One of the excercises the participants liked was besides the usual snake eating, lost in the woods stuff they did a number of emergency crash drills:  Driving in the van and the instructor notifys them....you're at 10000 ft, engine failure call a mayday and start your emergency/crash checklist...real time...

mk

[sarmed1]

regarding uniforms: I think it depends on the mood of those on the AF side of the house on their thoughts....lets face it when it comes to military uniforms the AF has a tendency to be "boy scouty" itself sometimes (better since the ABU, but historically they are patch happy)  It could honestly go either way.   Really I think thats why there are no sleeve pockets on the ABU....enough chiefs didnt want to get rid of their giant stripes.....they liked the "bling"  likewise fire and cops got to keep their pocket patches..... I think it was just good lobbying (which HMRS has at the NHQ level)

The "rumor story" from the past was two fold a) the AF doesnt have rangers b) the tab doesnt fit the usual AF badges style, so thats why the axed it previously.  (of course neither does shoulder patches/reversed US flags)
Personally I am for a badge design in place of the GT badge that is Ranger specific....that way it'll be ABU compliant down the road and there wont be a need for this fiasco to repeat itself

Otherwise unless another memo apperas from NHQ specifically ordering the removal of all Ranger insignia from the woodland BDU uniform until AF approval you will continue to see pictures and in the flesh Ranger Bling on BDU's.

mk

[davidsinn]

Otherwise unless another memo apperas from NHQ specifically ordering the removal of all Ranger insignia from the woodland BDU uniform until AF approval you will continue to see pictures and in the flesh Ranger Bling on BDU's.

mk

There shouldn't be an order to tell people not to do something they already weren't supposed to do.

[heliodoc]

^^
Well then, a rewrite of the lame and infamous 39-1 is really what is needed.

CLEAR CONCISE NATION WIDE CAP STANDARDIZATION OF UNIFORM POLICY

Now does that hurt the eyes?  CAP hurts itself with a caaackamaammy document that does not address HAWK and NBB clearly enough!! Apparently there are a number of those folks who would rather go out on their own and do their own thing...

But that is what you get in CAP... whatever everyone wants to do...That is why it is time for CAP to have NO more military uniforms 'cuz apparently there are at least 10,000 threads here on CAPTalk PROVING that no one can follow simple instruction

Is that right?  If so CAP best do its level best to REDO 39-1 in the next 6 months and BE DONE with it

Ordering people in CAP?

[N Harmon]

I think we should just rename "Ground Team" to "Ranger Team", and drop the tabs, fancy patches, etc.

[davidsinn]

I think we should just rename "Ground Team" to "Ranger Team", and drop the tabs, fancy patches, etc.

Where's that puking smily?

[Spike]

I think we should just rename "Ground Team" to "Ranger Team", and drop the tabs, fancy patches, etc.

Where's that puking smily?

Ground Team is just fine.  When working with other agencies and a CAP Member says "our Ground Team is searching......", the other agency understands two thing;

1) Members on the GROUND
2) A Team working to do something

Say "Ranger" and a myriad of different meanings can pop into a persons head that is not even close to what CAP does. 

[N Harmon]

I think we should just rename "Ground Team" to "Ranger Team", and drop the tabs, fancy patches, etc.

Where's that puking smily?

Ground Team is just fine.  When working with other agencies and a CAP Member says "our Ground Team is searching......", the other agency understands two thing;

1) Members on the GROUND
2) A Team working to do something

Say "Ranger" and a myriad of different meanings can pop into a persons head that is not even close to what CAP does.

And some agencies understand "ground team" to be analogous to "ground crew".

[Spike]

^ Guess we should just call them "CAP Members working as a team, following the guidance of a person with more checkboxes checked, and really just walking around while real SAR teams find the missing person, provide medical assistance and get the credit for it".

[Fuzzy]

Put that in the form of an acronym and slap it on a nametape and I'm sold!

[Gunner C]

Put that in the form of an acronym and slap it on a nametape and I'm sold!

Beat me to it by seconds!

[heliodoc]

Acronym, eh

_UBAR  comes  to mind rather quickly as a couple of others that I saw on a nametape (CAP) back at an encampment in 1977

Want that one??