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Author Topic: CAP politics  (Read 9196 times)
ELTHunter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 346
Unit: SER-TN-170

« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2006, 09:17:31 PM »

What would be  more effective is for membership to constantly express their displeasure with the poor NHQ leadership to  your National Board Members.

What inclines the Board members to listen to the membership when we have no formal method to exact any kind of punitive damage upon them?  We can't vote.
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Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
SER-TN-170
Deputy Commander of Cadets
Emergency Services Officer
DNall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,721

« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2006, 09:40:42 PM »

Strike? You mean like stop paperwork & local meetings? It might be an embarassment, but why would leadership care? The only people effected are your members waiting on paperwork & trying to get training. The AF won't notice unless you refuse missions on principle, and if that happens more than a couple times it's all of CAP that will take the smackdown you intended for leadership. No, if you want leadership slapped around a bit, you have to either work from the inside out or go to the source & encourage it from above.

National Board members do have great incentive to listen to membership. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but members do vote with their feet, as we've been seeing for a few years now. The problem is after a bunch of years a lot of us like to maintain our membership while not participating so we don't lose all that hard work. That doesn't show up on the vote tally. You can change a lot of big things if you focus on small parts you can influence at your level, that stuff catches on & makes a difference.

You want a long-term fix, all I can say is what we talked about over on the protal; the CAC-like 1Sgt-esque system for adults. I think that'd get some traction. And, putting the participation data from 102s into CAPWATCH so you can actually see active vs inactive members & be shocked when the national number is less than half what it looks like on paper. Both those would spur some action, but niether is a solution. I do think they're worth pursuing though & would be recieved pretty well.

Psicorp, very good ideas on that last post. Completely agree.
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Major_Chuck
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 557

« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2006, 09:50:42 PM »

a wise move. Don't "strike"' on the HLS, DR, ES  and mission essential stuff. We are only hurting the customer we seek to serve.

The other option is to start ignoring the National Commander. the has little to no regard for those who disagree with him.
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Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard
ELTHunter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 346
Unit: SER-TN-170

« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2006, 09:53:11 PM »

Strike? You mean like stop paperwork & local meetings? It might be an embarrassment, but why would leadership care?

Like I said, I hadn't thought this idea through.  However, by strike, I mean no training missions, no corporate missions to help with dog and pony shows, no attending conferences, etc.  Stop spending the money and Wing and Region CC's will soon be getting an incentive to see what's up.  I wouldn't refuse anything that came down from USAF.  That's really cutting your nose off to spite your face.

if you want leadership slapped around a bit, you have to either work from the inside out or go to the source & encourage it from above.

Been trying that approach for the last eight or nine years now and it's only getting worse.

National Board members do have great incentive to listen to membership. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but members do vote with their feet, as we've been seeing for a few years now. The problem is after a bunch of years a lot of us like to maintain our membership while not participating so we don't lose all that hard work. That doesn't show up on the vote tally. You can change a lot of big things if you focus on small parts you can influence at your level, that stuff catches on & makes a difference.

See above.

You want a long-term fix, all I can say is what we talked about over on the portal; the CAC-like 1Sgt-esque system for adults. I think that'd get some traction. And, putting the participation data from 102s into CAPWATCH so you can actually see active vs inactive members & be shocked when the national number is less than half what it looks like on paper. Both those would spur some action, but neither is a solution. I do think they're worth pursuing though & would be received pretty well.

Don't disagree.





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Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
SER-TN-170
Deputy Commander of Cadets
Emergency Services Officer
ELTHunter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 346
Unit: SER-TN-170

« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2006, 10:02:26 PM »

Before we go too far with this thread, let me say that I'm not necessarily advocating insurrection....what's that Honey, you say there's a General Pineda on the phone for me :) (insert tin foil hat here)  I just don't see a lot of options open to a membership body that doesn't have a real voice in the management of the organization.

At the pace that the current National Commander makes changes and consolidates power, I'm not sure a long-term approach is going to do a lot of good.  By the time change is affected (or is it effected, I can never remember), there could be a lot of damage done to the organization.
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Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
SER-TN-170
Deputy Commander of Cadets
Emergency Services Officer
flyguy06
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,195

« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2006, 10:03:31 PM »

If you guys have a serious problem withthe National Commander, why not just ask him? I mean this is CAP, a volunteer organization. He is not a real two star. He cant take your pay or give you extra duty if you confrnt him. Just ask him what the heck is going on.

I have concerns too. I just read the recent firing of a region commander. Its getting rediculous. I have beenin CAP since 1984 and I have NEVER seen anything like this before. You can beliebve I will be finding Pineda's email address and emailing him. Its not hard. He's an FDLE agent which means he's a public servant. Go to the FDLE website and look him up.
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DNall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,721

« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2006, 11:21:04 PM »

Well now I do believe in sticking to my chain of command, and I hate to get stomped for making waves that don't change anything. I'd hate to have that feed back on my local chain of command, or my commander in the other uniform, both of whom can make my life much less fun. If I'm going to make waves, it'll be from behind the curtain with people that can stir it up better than I.

Personally, I'd prefer not to have this going at all. I don't like the idea of burning connections that can do good for CAP to get the house in order. I'd prefer to do my job & trust my leadership to lead, I just haven't seen that yet. Still, I'm an optimist & have no problems giving out more chances if I see positive movement.
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Major_Chuck
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 557

« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2006, 11:52:38 PM »

First let me say that I am a strong believer in the chain of command and just ranting for the most part. 

I will admit that I don't care much for Tony Pineda and his perceived seizing of power.  I feel he was the wrong choice for National Commander and since we have no true voice in that selection process we are pretty much stuck with who the National Board places into the position.

I do feel though that the membership as a whole need to express their feelings to their respective NB Representatives (Wing Commanders) about any issues and concerns they have.  Good and bad.  I have made it well known to my Wing Commander that I don't care at all for what has been going on. 

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Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard
Major_Chuck
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 557

« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2006, 11:55:36 PM »

If you guys have a serious problem withthe National Commander, why not just ask him? I mean this is CAP, a volunteer organization. He is not a real two star. He cant take your pay or give you extra duty if you confrnt him. Just ask him what the heck is going on.

I have concerns too. I just read the recent firing of a region commander. Its getting rediculous. I have beenin CAP since 1984 and I have NEVER seen anything like this before. You can beliebve I will be finding Pineda's email address and emailing him. Its not hard. He's an FDLE agent which means he's a public servant. Go to the FDLE website and look him up.

Don't need to look it up.  I've got his AOL email address.   For the record I have asked him about issues in the past and never received an answer.  Not even a courtesy acknowledgement that he received the email.
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Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard
flyguy06
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,195

« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2006, 11:57:50 PM »

Whjat chan of command? WHat she gonna do give you an article 15 or write you a counseling statement and put it in your record?
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DNall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,721

« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2006, 12:15:24 AM »

Whjat chan of command? WHat she gonna do give you an article 15 or write you a counseling statement and put it in your record?
Well now in my case you're talking about two separate chains of command, one that pays me & one that doesn't. The one that doesn't can just pull me from my local staff position & activities I enjoy, maybe hold up my paperwork now and then. The other is a different thing. An email from a senior CAP officer there can make my life much less fun - not an article 15 or even counseling, but not in the best graces of people that control my career & that's not an idea I treasure.

I do respect the chain of command though. I have my problems & frustrations w/ upper leadership, ideas for what I'd like to be done about it, and ideas for where I'd like us to be in the future, and there are things I can do about it within limits. I think that probably describes all of us though. Not to mention everyone in the military where grumbling is an inalienable right.
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ZigZag911
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,985

« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2006, 12:36:23 AM »

Is there much point in registering complaints with wing or region commanders?

Nearly all of them, at this point, have been personally selected by the National CC and/or National CS.

It's intriguing how national commanders & national vice coommanders, in recent year, have come and gone as if in a revolving door -- yet the same National Chief of Staff serves each successive administration.

If he ever goes on "Survivor", I'm betting on him!!!
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Psicorp
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 606

« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2006, 10:46:14 AM »

I haven't thought this completely through, but the strike idea has crossed my mind also.  Although it runs counter to what I would usually believe, I'm not seeing a lot of options for rank and file members to make a statment that gets recognized at the upper levels of command. ... By initiating a coordinated "strike" on all non-emergency activities and missions, it might get someone's attention that folks are fed up without having to resort to complete resignation.


And just what would the possible consequences of a "strike" be, hmm?  You don't want to do the job you volunteered to do?  Fine, charters can be pulled and you could recieve a "your services are no longer required" letter.   Meanwhile, who really suffers?  The community in which you volunteered to serve?  The cadets and officers under your command?  The reputation of CAP as a whole? 

I honestly feel that if we don't become involved in politics and demand/expect the highest level of integrity of our leaders, then we end up being governed by our inferiors.   Ever notice that the people who are the best fit for a position are rarily the ones who jump at the chance to get it?
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Jamie Kahler, Capt., CAP
(C/Lt Col, ret.)
CC
GLR-MI-257
Smokey
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 501

« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2006, 04:06:50 PM »

I too e-mailed General Pineda a while back.....no reply.  He probably hits "delete" on any e-mail that might be inquiring or critical.

The biggest issue is his lack of explanation of what & why the decisions were made. He offers no clue as to what is going on and we are left in the dark to muse, rant  & rave.   

We may not agree with all his decisions, but there would be less goaning and carping if we knew what the heck was going on.
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If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
To err is human, to blame someone else shows good management skills.
Pylon
Administrator

Posts: 5,165
Unit: NER-NH-038

Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2006, 05:38:54 PM »

We may not agree with all his decisions, but there would be less goaning and carping if we knew what the heck was going on.

Actually, I think National leadership realizes this and is probably the motivation behind setting up the newest addition to the CAP plethora of domains:  http://www.nationalcommander.com

Meant to keep you informed of leadership decisions and reasoning behind them.  :)
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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
Concord Composite Squadron, NH       
Psicorp
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 606

« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2006, 05:51:56 PM »

We may not agree with all his decisions, but there would be less goaning and carping if we knew what the heck was going on.

Actually, I think National leadership realizes this and is probably the motivation behind setting up the newest addition to the CAP plethora of domains:  http://www.nationalcommander.com

Meant to keep you informed of leadership decisions and reasoning behind them.  :)

That's what I'm hoping for...but if that were the case, you'd think he would have started out by passing along some information to begin to quell the rumors (I can't imagine he hasn't heard any).

I'm willing to take a "wait and see" approach and hope that someone's passing along to certain individuals the message to "check six".

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Jamie Kahler, Capt., CAP
(C/Lt Col, ret.)
CC
GLR-MI-257
flyguy06
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,195

« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2006, 06:16:48 PM »

[ [/quote]
Well now in my case you're talking about two separate chains of command, one that pays me & one that doesn't. The one that doesn't can just pull me from my local staff position & activities I enjoy, maybe hold up my paperwork now and then. The other is a different thing. An email from a senior CAP officer there can make my life much less fun - not an article 15 or even counseling, but not in the best graces of people that control my career & that's not an idea I treasure.

.[/quote]


Pull you from your local staff position? I guess my situation is differant. We are beggin for people to volunteer. They arent about to can anyone who is willing. And to your second pint. Again, I guess its differant with mme. My military commanders have never heard of CAP and if some civilian addresses a letter to them about me and signs it as a two star, they would laugh their heads off and throw it away.
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ELTHunter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 346
Unit: SER-TN-170

« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2006, 06:48:29 PM »


And just what would the possible consequences of a "strike" be, hmm?  You don't want to do the job you volunteered to do?  Fine, charters can be pulled and you could receive a "your services are no longer required" letter.   Meanwhile, who really suffers?  The community in which you volunteered to serve?  The cadets and officers under your command?  The reputation of CAP as a whole? 

I honestly feel that if we don't become involved in politics and demand/expect the highest level of integrity of our leaders, then we end up being governed by our inferiors.   Ever notice that the people who are the best fit for a position are rarely the ones who jump at the chance to get it?


First of all, I'm not suggesting a strike for a prolonged period of time, just long enough or selective enough to get some attention.

As I said, it would be for all non-emergency missions.

There could still be local squadron meetings and unfunded training activities.
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Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
SER-TN-170
Deputy Commander of Cadets
Emergency Services Officer
Psicorp
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 606

« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2006, 10:22:03 PM »


And just what would the possible consequences of a "strike" be, hmm?  You don't want to do the job you volunteered to do?  Fine, charters can be pulled and you could receive a "your services are no longer required" letter.   Meanwhile, who really suffers?  The community in which you volunteered to serve?  The cadets and officers under your command?  The reputation of CAP as a whole? 

I honestly feel that if we don't become involved in politics and demand/expect the highest level of integrity of our leaders, then we end up being governed by our inferiors.   Ever notice that the people who are the best fit for a position are rarely the ones who jump at the chance to get it?


First of all, I'm not suggesting a strike for a prolonged period of time, just long enough or selective enough to get some attention.

As I said, it would be for all non-emergency missions.

There could still be local squadron meetings and unfunded training activities.

Still sounds like a "wrong execution of the right idea".    To get leadership's attention, you'd want to get more involved...not step back and cross your arm across your chest and glare.   
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Jamie Kahler, Capt., CAP
(C/Lt Col, ret.)
CC
GLR-MI-257
ELTHunter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 346
Unit: SER-TN-170

« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2006, 11:18:50 PM »

Forget I brought it up in the first place.  If I get any more involved, I'll be divorced and unemployed.  Unless by more involved you mean more involved in Wing/Region/National politics, which I have absolotely no desire to do.  I prefer the operations side to the political side of the organization.
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Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
SER-TN-170
Deputy Commander of Cadets
Emergency Services Officer
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