spelling vs shorthand on this board

[flyguy06]

I have a question. People like to critisize mine and other peoples spelling. yet when I get texts from people, I get messages like   the following:

"pls come to to the bldg at 123 smth st tomoro to gt sum food"

"wht r u doing hre at the nght schl"

"dd u c tht train crsh n2 the trk ystrday"

Now I can decipher what the text messages are saying. So I ask why is that acceptable in todays society but if i use shorthand on a social message board it is not? I dnt gt it.

[Cecil DP]

When you're texting, you are on a cell phone or aother apparatus with a small keyboard that is difficult to type on. It is also a one to one message, no one else sees it. On a social network such as CAP Talk what one says is open to everyone who has access to the board.
Most people find the shorthand to be irritating and generally a sign of laziness in writing. As stated in several other posts on CAP Talk, Not knowing anyone here personally, the only impression one gets of the correspondents on line is the way they communicate.

[Pylon]

I suppose you can keep writing posts like that, but it just means I will ignore everything you write.  And so will others. 

Text messages are limited in length to a certain number of characters in many instances, are typed on-the-go, never from a regular keyboard, and are typically intended to convey quick, brief thoughts.  A text message is not public, but is rather a private message to one or several people, and it's typically not saved in posterity.  That's why it's more acceptable to use abbreviated and short language in text messages.  (Not saying it's right:  I use full sentences, punctuation, and appropriate capitalization in pretty much all my text messages).

CAPTalk is not a cell phone nor is it Twitter.   You have a full keyboard in front of you.  You're typically discussing and conveying complex thoughts, sharing and defending opinions, and posting more than 140 characters at a time.  You're not sending a message at a stoplight or while running between meetings; you're sitting down at a computer, reading posts, composing thoughts and posting typed replies.   It's public, meaning the several thousand CAPTalk members, plus any person on the Internet worldwide can read your message.  Your posts here are even archived for posterity and indexed by the major search engines, too.

Besides the fact that both forms of communication, cell phones and CAPTalk, use electricity to operate, I don't see one similarity between the two.

Last, whether you like it or not, people do judge you on your ability to communicate properly.  Both here and elsewhere.  Some people still knowingly choose not to care, but they then give up the right to be offended when people judge them, ignore them, etc.

[Major Carrales]

Michael, to be fair, there have been time when even I have lad to look up some people's CAPTALK internet slag usage...and I'm pretty savvy. 

My main issue with these types of posts, and the GRAMMAR WITCH HUNTS (and yes, I will capitalize words as such to make a point because I think "emphasize mine" is a ridiculous way to do it where as ALL CAPS is used in certain academic circles I run in to denote concepts), is how they serve no real purpose but to say "I'm smart and you're a schmuck."   I wish, when a thread gets to that level, that people would correct via PM, or, if it happens, that the thread be locked at the third issuance an indict from the Reich-ministry of Grammar.

[flyguy06]

I first found captalk when I was deployed in Iraq.iwould go to the computer center where we only had 30 mins a a time on the computer. SoI had to type fast and move on. I guess i still type fast and move on.

This is a social cite. Maybe I just dont take it as seriously as others do. its a fun thing. Yes it is informational and dont get me wrong, I have learned alot of things about my favorite organization on here.I have net great friends from this site.

I am not knocking it at all. But come on You guys know what i am trying to say. its shorthand for peat sakes. Tell you what? Fromnow on I'll use a dictionary and thesaurus everyting I want to post something. Chill folks its all good.

SO lets see so far I have been called lazy and ignorant since I went to public school Man, I joined CAP because I really enjoy the people.

[heliodoc]

Pardon me "boyz"

I know I capitalize, misspell at times and whatnot

What do we have here on CAPTalk, now??  More folk jamming it to others for there "preferred" ways of communincatin'

CAPTalk , I really do not take too seriously, anyway.  With all the OPSEC waving, Confusion Amongst People, CAPflight vs no CAPFlight (awwww)

YOU know, nothing is really that "deep" on CAPTalk unless someone is assailing someone for grammar, punctuation, 39-1 violations, talkin smack about FEMA courses, more smack about OPSEC..... it goes on and on

CAPTalk......... once more.... Where 2B's are on the ready, second guessing is commonplace,  and now.... we have a number of English majors who just could not wait to jump out from a corner and start pontificating about rules of good grammar.

[Eclipse]

So I ask why is that acceptable in todays society but if i use shorthand on a social message board it is not? I dnt gt it.

First, this isn't a "social message board", this is a message board.  We don't do status updates, care when or where you're getting coffee, or what you think about anything if its not related to CAP. (I give the mods credit for keeping that Prime Directive sacrosanct)

As Pylon said, little if anything posted here has the immediacy that a Twitter posting has, nor the character limitation.  Post should be fairly well thought out, with citations if possible, and perhaps saved to draft if you're not done and in a hurry.

Most people find the shorthand to be irritating and generally a sign of laziness in writing.

+1 there.  Facespace and Twitter are not the "real" world, so what's acceptable there isn't a universal constant.  "3l33t speak" ceased being cool about 10 years ago.   If you had (or Lord help you still have) Geek Code in your signature, you can continue to use it on the dial-up BBS' you're probably still accessing, otherwise clear English is preferred.

I won't say I've never used "u" for "you", in a text message, but I generally try and type in real words and full sentences, even via SMS.

I am looking forward to the day when this "social" narcissistic networking Facebook/Twitter/Myspace nonsense dies a heat death and we can all go back to speaking and writing the English language in all its twisted, contradictory, glory.  Twitter killed SMS, now all we need to do is knock that off and we're good to go.

There was a time when SMS was "interesting" - basically using an open chunk of low-priority bandwidth for a quick message.  Like AOL, it died a long time ago, but no one will tell it that its deceased.  As more and more users adopt "real" mobile devices, the limitations of SMS will become increasingly silly and I'd say by the time we're wearing ABU's it will be a thing of the past.

We're mostly adults here, with a high percentage of professionals, and we should all, even the cadets (who have to be at least 12) be well beyond the "creative spelling" they are teaching in schools these days.

With all the above said, there's no reason to be insulting about corrections, or insulted when you receive them.

[flyguy06]

I am not insulted. i was just curious. Listren, I realize that most folks on here are into the IT world heavily. I am not a IT person or technical at all. So to me Facebook, myspace, studentpilot.com, Captalk, gocivilairpatrol.com. Its all the same to me. I am just a user.

heck I dont know what sms means nor do I really have a need to. I am a user. I found this site. its interesting and I enjoy it. I am not Irepaet I am not an It person. Heck I cant even figure out how to get my frickin Mission Pilot stuff to show up on eservices. (help please)

[Flying Pig]

I have a question. People like to critisize mine and other peoples spelling. yet when I get texts from people, I get messages like   the following:

"pls come to to the bldg at 123 smth st tomoro to gt sum food"

"wht r u doing hre at the nght schl"

"dd u c tht train crsh n2 the trk ystrday"

Now I can decipher what the text messages are saying. So I ask why is that acceptable in todays society but if i use shorthand on a social message board it is not? I dnt gt it.

Bacause were adults.

[flyguy06]

Listen, I respect everyone on here and have no issues with anyone. CAP is like family to me.

[Pingree1492]

Well, to answer this post honestly, flyguy06, I'm going to have to pick on you a bit.  So to quote a favorite TV Show, "Don't feel bad, just improve." 

flyguy06, I know from reading the board that you are a commissioned officer in a branch of the military, been deployed, are a pilot, live somewhere in an "inner city", are a senior member officer in CAP, and are a leader in the cadet program in your squadron.  I also know that you are a big "stickler" for proper uniform wear and customs & courtesies.  So from all this, I can gather that you've been around the block a few times, and generally probably worthy of taking a close look at your posts.  HOWEVER, when I read your posts, all I can see in my mind's eye is some petulant little 14 year old kid with too much time in front of a computer and no common sense.

Again, I'm not really talking about CONTENT here, just presentation.  It's HARD for me to get past the image of the kid because, at times, your posts are almost indecipherable.  To give a comparison, it would be like me turning up to one of your squadron meeting with a uniform that looked like it was put in a compression sack for 2 weeks, shoes that might once have been black, and questionable hygiene.  It wouldn't matter to you what level of experience I have in the program, what qualifications I have, or awards I might have received.  I would probably be out the door in under 5 minutes. 

So to sum up: 

Spelling & Grammar are to an internet board what uniform wear and Customs & Courtesies are to a squadron meeting.


Again, sorry if I'm a bit harsh here, I'm not trying to personally attack you, I'm just trying to honestly answer your question.  Take it for what it's worth.

[flyguy06]

I hear you and I understand what you are saying. Its just that I dont take it that seriously I guess. Ipurposely dont use spell check for one because I dont always have the time and two I think reasonable people  would get the gist of the words even if they are not complete. for example:

If i wrote this sentence and I idnt neccesarly complete iot or spell out each word I thing you stil know what I am trying to say.

The folls on here love to bragg about their intelligence so Iassume they canfiguere out things an read between the line.

But you know what? Just for you people, i will type slower and use spell check. Ok?

[a2capt]

Some passing thoughts on the matter of grammar, spelling and video tape ..

There used to be a person that frequented our usual IRC hangout, among other things she was a mid life space cadet type. She could not find her way out of a paper bag even if she was mounted on a rail with a pre-programmed train.

Somehow... she got a help desk job at a computer peripheral vendor in the Detroit area, in the late 90's that was a pretty prominent vendor of Apple II and later, Macintosh items.

She used to come into IRC and ask the .. well, .. lamest questions.

We all swore that what she was doing was asking the questions she got on the phone, to get the answers. ;-)

Anyhow, what she used to also do was type really badly, and the way Vanna White sells vowels, you would swear she had the corner on punctuation symbols. She used!!! lots of !!!! them!!!!! all over the place.

But nary a shift or caps lock key.

..and the words, way before this 'ur' crap was 'cool', total lack of periods, capitalization, lame-lazy spelling, etc. Atrocious stuff.

You know what her excuse was?

"I type all day and when I get home I'm tired."

Does a truck driver run over kids on the way home because they drive all day and are too tired to stop? Extreme example.. yes, but it gets the point across.

Sorry, if you can't speak to me properly, if it's not important enough to do properly, well then..  good luck getting answers somewhere else.

"I'm a cadet", doesn't cut it with me, either. I just don't have to read it, it's a royal pet peeve.

Whats okay because it's a "small keyboard" or "because I'm in a hurry", soon becomes accepted more and more.

..and the flyguy is in no danger of joining those ranks of ridiculous from what I can tell ;-)

I can also separate spelling issues and strange grammar from what I consider totally lazy and lame crap like all this 'ur' and lame SMS habits that seem to be spilling over into general conversation. It's the latter that goes into my internal /dev/nul.

I know a guy that puts down nearly his every move on twitter and then says he's not addicted to the thing, yet you read about those twitter addicts, he fits it to a 'T'.

Do you stand up at the CAP meeting and holler out "Going to the head!". and yell in the hallway "I'm washing my hands now!" when you are done, and go back in and do that?

... What a bunch of twits. ;-)

[Pingree1492]

I hear you and I understand what you are saying. I just don't take it that seriously I guess. I purposely don't use spell check for one because I don't always have the time and two I think reasonable people would get the gist of the words even if they are not complete. For example:

If i wrote this sentence and I idnt neccesarly complete iot or spell out each word I thing you stil know what I am trying to say.

The folls [MY EDIT: fools or folks? I don't know which to assume given the context] on here love to brag about their intelligence so I assume they can figure out things and read between the lines.

But you know what? Just for you people, I will type slower and use spell check. Ok?

You asked I answered.  Some people don't take uniform wear that seriously either.  Does it matter?  I think so.  From your earlier posts, I think I can safely say that you think it matters as well.

Again, having moderately good spelling and proofreading are kind of equivalent things in this environment.  Am I ever going to be a spelling Nazi?  No.  But I had to read your most recent post twice to get what you were trying to say.

4 points:  1) the spell check on this forum doesn't take that long.  I just did it for my post, it took a couple of seconds.  2) You could use Firefox.  It has a built-in spell check that underlines misspelled words as you type.  This is what I do.  Takes even less time.  3) My whole reply has taken me about 5 minutes to think and type.  Surely this isn't too much time.  4) It took me 30 seconds to make your original post more readable.  However, take a look at the edit.  Which way should I interpret that given the context of the post?  Clarity of intent is important when the written word is all we can go by.

Again, I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but to convince you of why it's a good idea to take a little more time on your posts.  Much the same as you would take aside an errant cadet with uniform issues and explain why appearance is so important.

I think most folks on here will agree, we don't need perfection, just clarity and readability.

[Short Field]

If i wrote this sentence and I idnt neccesarly complete iot or spell out each word I thing you stil know what I am trying to say.

If it works, then convince your boss to use that on your next performance report.  It would sure make life a lot simpiler for him.   

[notaNCO forever]

 This is my humble opinion of why it is important to use proper spelling and grammar on the discussion board. First off the point of this board is to discuss opinions, or show facts, presented by a member. The questions presented usually have a few different sides. Each person with an opinion forms a argument to support their opinions. By argument I mean a premise with a chain of facts to support their idea and modify if the initial premise is wrong. The spelling and grammar is the medium by which we convey our ideas. Everyone here should know basic proper grammar and spelling. If we start using shorthand, slang, and acronyms their will be interference in the message being conveyed. Their is already plenty of interference with peoples feelings toward their own personal opinion.
   

[Майор Хаткевич]

I am looking forward to the day when this "social" narcissistic networking Facebook/Twitter/Myspace nonsense dies a heat death and we can all go back to speaking and writing the English language in all its twisted, contradictory, glory.  Twitter killed SMS, now all we need to do is knock that off and we're good to go.

There was a time when SMS was "interesting" - basically using an open chunk of low-priority bandwidth for a quick message.  Like AOL, it died a long time ago, but no one will tell it that its deceased.  As more and more users adopt "real" mobile devices, the limitations of SMS will become increasingly silly and I'd say by the time we're wearing ABU's it will be a thing of the past.

Most of my friends on facebook use proper writing techniques. If I did have anyone who had StAtUs UpDaTeS LiKe ThIs, I deleted them a long time a go from my friends list.


AOL is dead, but the IM system is not. People simply get the messages as texts on their phones. SMS messages will not go away anytime soon, as they are still a preferable way of communication between the younger crowd. Now that most people do have full keyboards on their phones, it is becoming better, but I don't think that it will be gone anytime soon, as now you can update your twitter/facebook/new fad using a text message.

[EMT-83]

It's been implied here that I'm a spelling/grammar Nazi. I am not. I do, however, put a lot of thought into the words I write, and then proofread to see that they make sense. I wish others here would do the same. There have been several topics where I stayed out of the discussion because I couldn't figure out which side of the argument the writers were defending!

[DG]

Spelling & Grammar are to an internet board what uniform wear and Customs & Courtesies are to a squadron meeting.

Very well said.

[flyguy06]

I hear you and I understand what you are saying. I just don't take it that seriously I guess. I purposely don't use spell check for one because I don't always have the time and two I think reasonable people would get the gist of the words even if they are not complete. For example:

If i wrote this sentence and I idnt neccesarly complete iot or spell out each word I thing you stil know what I am trying to say.

The folls [MY EDIT: fools or folks? I don't know which to assume given the context] on here love to brag about their intelligence so I assume they can figure out things and read between the lines.

But you know what? Just for you people, I will type slower and use spell check. Ok?

You asked I answered.  Some people don't take uniform wear that seriously either.  Does it matter?  I think so.  From your earlier posts, I think I can safely say that you think it matters as well.

Again, having moderately good spelling and proofreading are kind of equivalent things in this environment.  Am I ever going to be a spelling Nazi?  No.  But I had to read your most recent post twice to get what you were trying to say.

4 points:  1) the spell check on this forum doesn't take that long.  I just did it for my post, it took a couple of seconds.  2) You could use Firefox.  It has a built-in spell check that underlines misspelled words as you type.  This is what I do.  Takes even less time.  3) My whole reply has taken me about 5 minutes to think and type.  Surely this isn't too much time.  4) It took me 30 seconds to make your original post more readable.  However, take a look at the edit.  Which way should I interpret that given the context of the post?  Clarity of intent is important when the written word is all we can go by.

Again, I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but to convince you of why it's a good idea to take a little more time on your posts.  Much the same as you would take aside an errant cadet with uniform issues and explain why appearance is so important.

I think most folks on here will agree, we don't need perfection, just clarity and readability.

Why are we still discussing this? I thought the conversation was over