Beards and Goatees with the CSU

[cap235629]

After much discussion in various other posts I thought I would see how folks felt.  There was talk a while back about relaxing the grooming standards of the CSU to allow for neatly trimmed facial hair other than mustaches.  This standard would be similar to the former standard of the Public Health Service.  The new standard would be the curent CAP grooming standards for hair cut and length PLUS allowing neatly trimmed beards/goatee's. Please approach this question without regard to height/weight, that is strictly from the perspective of facial hair.

[PhotogPilot]

I am a CSU kind of guy, don't care for the White/Gray's, and am "gravitationally enhanced". I would be the perfect weight if I were 8 feet tall. I am not of the fuzzy variety, and would not have a problem if neatly trimmed beards were allowed. BUT, how do we define "neatly trimmed" What I might see as Grizzly Adams meets Sons of Anarchy, someone else might call "neatly trimmed". There would have to be some official quantification of "neat".

[Strick]

Thats all we need.......Looking like a the eastren block Air Force.  I vote no.

[Gunner C]

The last thing CAP needs to do is relax any standards.  We're about as relaxed as we can get. I vote no.

[Pylon]

I am a CSU kind of guy, don't care for the White/Gray's, and am "gravitationally enhanced". I would be the perfect weight if I were 8 feet tall. I am not of the fuzzy variety, and would not have a problem if neatly trimmed beards were allowed. BUT, how do we define "neatly trimmed" What I might see as Grizzly Adams meets Sons of Anarchy, someone else might call "neatly trimmed". There would have to be some official quantification of "neat".

One version of the proposed facial hair policy for the CSU was to adopt the language that the Commissioned Corps of the Public Health Service (one of the 7 uniformed services) used for their uniforms up until very recently.  I don't recall the exact wording off the top of my head, but have read it and it would work well and is clearly defined.

We allow facial hair on the greys/aviators.  There's no sense is having two sets of corporate dress uniforms in addition to the AF-style, but one that has grooming standards and no weight standards, and one that has neither -- three sets of equivalent uniforms is way too many.

If we're going to keep the CSU into the near future at least, then eliminate the aviator equivalents and allow facial hair with the CSU.  However, unlike the aviator/grays which have no restrictions on facial hair (your beard could look like this and still be okay with grays), bringing a standard into the mix would be a step in the right direction - As would eliminating a third set of equivalent uniforms.

Thats all we need.......Looking like a the eastren block Air Force.  I vote no.

How is a new policy allowing neat facial hair on the CSU and/or aviator grays worse than our current policy which allows facial hair with no restrictions whatsoever on the aviators?  Would you care to explain how you feel it's not at least one step in a better direction?

[Strick]

Not good

[Pylon]

Not good

Yeah, real constructive.  Thanks for contributing to professional dialogue here.

[NC Hokie]

Go for it and eliminate the aviator grays (and I say this as a non-bearded wearer of the aviator grays).

[billford1]

If the Reg were established identifying neatly groomed the standard would be there. I know a few folks in CAP who wear the gray slacks and are careful to wear them neatly.  They are groomed neatly which is a necessity in the Business world. My vote is with no more gray. Many Commanders will look the other way for those in gray Corporate Uniforms but they really can't with the AF uniform or one that looks somewhat like it. The USAF usually won't look the other way. The CSU or TPU would have the Commander in a position to exert influence on his people to respect the uniform as a way of respecting CAP and fellow CAP Members.

[wuzafuzz]

The aviator greys combine nicely with the blazer combo, it seems a simpleway to have a complete uniform set.  For that reason I'd rather watch the CSU go away.  (I'm not down on the CSU, I think it's the best looking uniform we have until you add the jacket.)

Don't forget there are some men folk with longer hair who wear the greys, it's not just about beards.  My brain still does a double take regarding long hair on men, let alone with ANY uniform, but it's out there and we need to accomodate it.  I suppose that is all allowed with the polo too.

[Strick]

It will never happen and if it does shame on them.

[jacob]

It will never happen and if it does shame on them.

Why is having facial hair so much worse than being over the weight regs for wearing the AF style uniform?

[Strick]

Being overweight in the AF uniform is not cool.  When CAP members are overwight wearing the AF uniform I consider it a slap in the face to the Air Force   

[jacob]

I should clarify what I meant: why would having facial hair and wearing the CSU be so much worse than being over the AF weight regs and wearing the CSU?

[Airrace]

Not a good idea.

[Short Field]

When CAP members are overwight wearing the AF uniform I consider it a slap in the face to the Air Force

When I see overweight CAP members wearing the Air Force Style uniform, I don't consider it a slap in the face to the Air Force but just an example of poor CAP leadership.  When the CAP leadership fails to correct members when it is needed, that is a failure in leadership.

[Pylon]

Not good

It will never happen and if it does shame on them.

Hey, try adding why you hold your particular viewpoint to your posts so the rest of us can understand where you're coming from.


And as a clarification, because somebody went off on a rant about weight-standards and the AF-style uniforms:  The CSU is the new Corporate Service Uniform, which is the double-breasted, CAP-distinctive uniform combo invented by ex-SM Tony Pineda.   

[Strick]

I apoligize for being brief.

[notaNCO forever]

 I think having neatly trimmed facial hair on the CSU and doing away with the grays is a great idea. The CSU looks very "military" like and uniform while on the grays you can have a wide range of grays and wild looking facial hair resulting in an alarming lack of uniformity. I don't think CAP should have lax standards, and having well defined guidelines for facial hair would actually be more professional than what we have know. I'm trying to form a good counter debate against the facial hair haters, but I actually need to see reasoning for not having facial hair.

[davedove]

I voted yes, simply on principle.  Why, oh why, did we ever develop a CORPORATE uniform that is not open to the entire CORPORATE membership?

The way it was implemented, CAP further segregated the membership.  We now have three categories:  Within AF weight and grooming, outside, and now within grooming but outside weight.