Beards and Goatees with the CSU

[Gunner C]

That's not quite accurate.  It is completely self selecting.  If anyone wants to wear the uniform, they can.  Just shave the facial hair.

[davedove]

That's not quite accurate.  It is completely self selecting.  If anyone wants to wear the uniform, they can.  Just shave the facial hair.

I feel I am completely accurate.  CAP includes those who choose to wear facial hair, therefore they are part of the membership.  Thus, the restrictions for the CSU excludes that portion of the membership.  Thus, you have a corporate uniform that is not for the entire membership.

[Hawk200]

I think a major problem with some of our members is that they feel that a mission can't be accomplished unless the member is clean shaven. I disagree with the sentiment. As CAP members, we do not have the need to be cleanshaven and short haired that the military has. Requiring it for CAP members not wearing the blues is unnecessary and artificial. The Air Force requires certain things, and they're out of our hands. But our uniforms are our own to deal with.

I've dealt with more than a few long haired and/or bearded folks in CAP that manage to contribute quite well in spite of their hair. These folks have always been neat and tidy. Their additional hair has never been a legitimate impediment to getting the job done.

Creating three different classes of uniforms has created problems that never should been made in the first place. My personal suspicion is that HWSRN created the CSU pretty much for himself, and probably would have been happy to be the only one wearing it. But that would have been blatantly disengenuous, so he had to make the compromise and allow a select group of others wear it. But he still made it somewhat selective, because it added requirements that weren't present with the blazer combo.

We should have two simple classes for uniforms. The one with requirements, the other without, as it was before he came on board. The requirements would be simple: you may wear the blues if you meet weight/grooming standards, if not you wear the CSU.

Why the CSU? It's far more consistent than the blazer combo. Ten people wearing blazer won't look uniform. There are always subtle differences, and the only things that would be identical would be the insignia (and I've seen people forgo the insignia on the blazer more times than I care to remember).

The CSU is completely consistent. Ten people wearing a CSU are wearing the same shade and pattern. No "fairly uniform" or "almost" the same. The only differences are in the different individual's name/rank insignia and qualification badges. That's uniformity. Ditch the pseudo Air Force look, and we'd be good.

Now, before someone wants to make it a big deal, these are personal opinions. But they're opinions formed from what I've seen in the CAP environment over the years. I'll give thought to a well presented counter argument, but it has to be good.

[vento]

Amen to what Hawk said. Good idea.

[Phillip]

I'd love to go back to my goatee, so I'd like to see it allowed with the CSU.  However, there is a problem.  Sure, we could mandate that the member be "neatly trimmed."  Clean shaven, though, is an easier to enforce standard.  Too many differing opinions on what neatly trimmed means.  We'd have to specifically define what we want neatly trimmed to mean and enforce it.  This is possible, but I foresee problems actually getting it implemented.

[SarDragon]

All you need to do is dig up the olde Navy reg on beards and implement it. It worked really well WIWOAD.

[Spike]

Unless food is caught in the beard.....leave those members alone.  The best way to upset people is to say "your beard is goofy looking, shave it now".

[Hawk200]

All you need to do is dig up the olde Navy reg on beards and implement it.

Sounds good to me. I don't think a specification is too much to ask. Beards aren't all that much of an issue.

Unless you're wearing a ZZ Top long beard, then I don't think it's too much to ask to trim it up. Hair can be tailed or otherwise bound, but facial hair that long I could see being a safety risk just about anywhere.

[SarDragon]

Oh, there are techniques for reducing the bulk of a beard if needed. I knew a guy in the Navy that gamed the rules for years, until he finally got the message that it was keeping him from making Chief.

[Eclipse]

Oh, there are techniques for reducing the bulk of a beard if needed.

[Gunner C]

"It gets the nubs" 

[jacob]

Unless you're wearing a ZZ Top long beard, then I don't think it's too much to ask to trim it up.

And if it is too much to ask, they can always wear the polo shirt.

[Hawk200]

Unless you're wearing a ZZ Top long beard, then I don't think it's too much to ask to trim it up.

And if it is too much to ask, they can always wear the polo shirt.

True.

[AirDX]

One thing I've learned from the uniform thread since I started reading this board (and I went back to the beginning and at least skimmed all of it): as a newly-returned member with a month under my belt now, am not spending ANY money on uniforms unless I need it desperately - like Gen. Moseley is about to personally hang an air medal on me or something.  Other than that, golf shirt!

Too bad, I kinda like the aviator/greys.  Except which idiot decided to wear a blue tie with that?

[Pumbaa]

By virtue of calling it a CORPORATE Service Uniform, that should preclude CAP from issuing a grooming standard based on the Air Force.  It is NOT a military uniform.  Personally, I would rather see someone with a well trimmed beard/ goatee vs some of the fatties that are blubbering out of the CSU.  Why not have a weight limit of AF +20 or even 30% then for the CSU?

The CSU is nothing more than "He who we shall not name" way of getting himself into a Military Style outfit as an overweight person.  He could not wear the AF Blues, so he made a work around.

[Gunner C]

By virtue of calling it a CORPORATE Service Uniform, that should preclude CAP from issuing a grooming standard based on the Air Force.  It is NOT a military uniform.  Personally, I would rather see someone with a well trimmed beard/ goatee vs some of the fatties that are blubbering out of the CSU.  Why not have a weight limit of AF +20 or even 30% then for the CSU?

The CSU is nothing more than "He who we shall not name" way of getting himself into a Military Style outfit as an overweight person.  He could not wear the AF Blues, so he made a work around.

Yep, great idea.  Lowering the standards works every time.   

[Pumbaa]

How's that lowering the standards?  I'm saying if you are going to restrict grooming to the CSU then you should on weight too.  Since we have an AF uniform that has +10% weight and grooming, then the CSU, WHICH IS NOT A MILITARY UNIFORM, should have some grooming such as neat beards and goatees and maybe a 30% weight standard.  We already have the grays which has neither restriction.

As it stands now the CSU has no weight standard and it looks like (WORD DELETED) when a 400 lbs blubber boy is wearing it.

At this pint get rid of the CSU or the Grays...

[Pylon]

Watch the insulting language.  It's not needed to make a point and not welcome here.

[AirDX]

Obvious fat boy here, should never have been seen in a uniform, allowed to serve his country, or be any sort of an example to youth:

And beards are totally exclusive of any type of military success:

And don't you know these guys are as unprofessional as they come:

Of course I would love to see someone tell them that to their face!

We are the CIVIL air patrol, not the AF reserve or the ANG.  Even the CG Aux allows beards, and they seem to do OK.

Lighten up on the beard thing.

P.S. I don't wear a beard.