Need help with a situation involving commanding officer

seniormember1976 · July 28, 2009, 08:20:11 PM

My family is new to CAP. My fiancee and daugher have been members for several months and I just joined. Our problem deals with our Captain. She loaned my daughter her blues as hers are not in yet. Unfortuately, when returned they had dog hair on them. We of course understand and encourage our daughter to pay for the dry cleaning. What we do not agree with is the captain then showing a cadet the uniform, then delagating to the cadet Lt, who delagated to a cadet Sgt, to discuss the issue with my daughter. The Captain refuses to discuss the matter with us. This is just one issue with this Captain, by the way her husband is the Major of our squadron so we feel there is conflict of interest in the chain of command. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance for any responses!

MSG Mac · July 28, 2009, 08:40:16 PM

First. your daughter should have had the uniform cleaned and pressed before returning it to the Captain. With that said, I would contact the Captain and ask why she took this avenue to settle a private matter. By involving the Chain of Command she seriously escalated a minor situation into an embarressing scene for your daughter.

seniormember1976 · July 28, 2009, 08:51:53 PM

Trust me our daughter got a serious lecture on borrowing and returning items, as well as punishment. Our problem is that our Captain will not disucuss the matter. She will change the subject or avoid us completely. Would it be appropriate to ask our Chaplain to sit in while we discuss the matter with her?

Eclipse · July 28, 2009, 09:07:19 PM

Parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus

Flying Pig · July 28, 2009, 09:14:17 PM

Honestly....There are morons in CAP who have absolutely no social skills, and at times, do things that are beyond reason. You have people in CAP who put on the uniform and take things to the extreme. Most, however are normal people. Like me

I would let it go. From the details of your post, it sounds as if this Captain has the social skills of paper bag and probably doesnt like any type of confrontation regardless of how minor. If the uniform has been cleaned and returned, call it a day and don't ever borrow anything from her again. Live to fight another day. Had it been me, I would have considered it a parent to parent issue. "Ummm, I let you daughter use my uniform and I got it back with dog hair al over it." Mom and dad handle it. Crisis over. Ive seen many in CAP, work, and the military take the chain of command to an extreme, to the point where all members are standing next to each other, but still repeat it down the line to the recipient.

Dont lt it affect your decision to join. There is a whole nation of CAPers out there who have the ability to carry on a normal conversation.

MikeD · July 29, 2009, 01:39:38 AM

Just so I get this straight, the issue got delegated down from the commander through the chain of command, right?

For something minor, isn't that how things are supposed to be handled? Let the cadet Sgt. handle it, and hopefully avoid some of the embarrassment of a direct talk with the commander? I can see two different ways of seeing this, one speaking very highly of her leadership skills, and one, not so much.

RiverAux · July 29, 2009, 01:59:21 AM

Well, I would say that since we were talking about the loan of something owned by the squadron commander personally, I wouldn't have gotten the chain involved in it. If it was clothing loaned by the squadron, thats another matter.

Nathan · July 29, 2009, 02:12:38 AM

Quote from: RiverAux on July 29, 2009, 01:59:21 AM
Well, I would say that since we were talking about the loan of something owned by the squadron commander personally, I wouldn't have gotten the chain involved in it. If it was clothing loaned by the squadron, thats another matter.

Right, that's how I saw it.

I certainly don't fault any senior member for attempting to use the chain of command. We certainly don't see enough of that, and this is a cadet-run program.

Given that the cadet was new to the program, I would imagine that an explanation may have been in order, and at least explained to you as the parents why it might be considered inappropriate to discuss the issue with you. But if said squadron commander did not see this as a private loan, and rather as a squadron temporary issue, then this technically wouldn't be an incorrect handling of the issue.

Besides, would you rather your daughter get grilled by an adult senior member, or by a cadet directly in charge of her with senior member supervision? Not that grilling is necessarily warranted for this situation, mind you, but all the same.

seniormember1976 · July 29, 2009, 02:20:49 AM

The Captain first contacted my fiancee as the parent, as well as a senior officer. After she had been told the matter would be appropriately handled, she also stated that she would talk personally with our daughter. Instead she handed it down through the chain of command. This was a personal not squadron loan of clothing.

LtCol Hooligan · July 29, 2009, 02:57:13 PM

What is your Captain's position in the squadron? You mentioned her husband is the Squadron Commander. Is it possible the Captain holds a position such as Finance or Admin and it is not her role to counsel cadets? It sounds to me like she tried to do the right thing both times

1. Loan equipment to a cadet who needed it.
2. Use the proper chain of command to make sure the cadets would return her items in good condition.

Just because someone is a Captain does not mean they are in the chain of command. I know the two bars shows they have been in a while and have a position in the squadron, it does not mean they are in the direct chain of command.

My recommendation is to watch and learn for a little bit longer. See how the dynamic of the squadron works. If you still see things that are concerning, go to your senior member mentor (you should have one since you are new) and talk it over with them to see if you are the only one having these feelings or if there are indeed areas for concern.

Flying Pig · July 29, 2009, 07:48:25 PM

This isnt a chain of command issue. In this case, the parents the the other member should have handled it. Situation over. Not everything in the cadet program needs to go the chain of command route. Im assuming, the parents probably paid for the cleaning?

Spike · July 30, 2009, 08:52:01 PM

Wow....a lint brush can remove dog hair the last time I checked.

This is an issue that is one of those "non-issues", created for dramatics and to make CAP more like a soap opera.

Props to the Captain for loaning your Daughter the Blues uniform. Negative props to your daughter for returning them in poor condition. If this is so bothersome, confront the Captain.

It is your right as a member of the Squadron to ask questions of the Captain. She should be able to clearly explain why she did what she did.

If I were the Captain, I would let your daughter keep the borrowed uniform and request the new uniform sent by the Air Force from your Daughter. That is how my Squadron works. We have Blues to outfit new Cadets, and we use the Squadron Mailing address for the shipment of the Free Cadet Uniform. When it arrives we place the new uniform into stock for issue to other new cadets. Not a hard system to master, just requires an initial investment in a few new Blues uniforms from AAFES.

Daniel · July 30, 2009, 09:09:17 PM

Quote from: Spike on July 30, 2009, 08:52:01 PM
Wow....a lint brush can remove dog hair the last time I checked.

This is an issue that is one of those "non-issues", created for dramatics and to make CAP more like a soap opera.

Props to the Captain for loaning your Daughter the Blues uniform. Negative props to your daughter for returning them in poor condition. If this is so bothersome, confront the Captain.

It is your right as a member of the Squadron to ask questions of the Captain. She should be able to clearly explain why she did what she did.

If I were the Captain, I would let your daughter keep the borrowed uniform and request the new uniform sent by the Air Force from your Daughter. That is how my Squadron works. We have Blues to outfit new Cadets, and we use the Squadron Mailing address for the shipment of the Free Cadet Uniform. When it arrives we place the new uniform into stock for issue to other new cadets. Not a hard system to master, just requires an initial investment in a few new Blues uniforms from AAFES.

%100 argeed

LtCol Hooligan · July 31, 2009, 02:20:14 PM

Quote from: Spike on July 30, 2009, 08:52:01 PM
That is how my Squadron works. We have Blues to outfit new Cadets, and we use the Squadron Mailing address for the shipment of the Free Cadet Uniform. When it arrives we place the new uniform into stock for issue to other new cadets. Not a hard system to master, just requires an initial investment in a few new Blues uniforms from AAFES.

Spike- becareful with this as NHQ may have an issue. Not trying to open up a can of worms, but those uniforms are meant for the specific cadet to use until they out grow them. Then they should be returned to supply and reissued to other cadets. I totally see what you are doing and it is a great idea because you are assured to get the uniforms if a cadet quits for some reason. Just a little different than how the program was intended to work. My 2 cents.

Spike · July 31, 2009, 07:31:38 PM

^ I can see where you are coming from, but issuing a Cadet a uniform (which is new) and placing his or hers into the issue bin is ok. This outfits the Cadet in a timely manner and allows us to always have pieces on hand.

We also are fortunate to have a MCSS nearby and the Squadron buys everything a Cadet needs to be outfitted in 2 BDU's, and 1 Blue uniform with new boots and dress shoes. The only thing a Cadet buys is his or her initial "CAP" cutouts, and then we just trade up everything else. Ribbons and everything else are included in what the Squadron provides.

We work real hard all year to raise around $12,000 from various sources to make sure costs to Squadron Members are at a minimum. We were able to send 10 Cadets and 5 Seniors to Special Activities and Encampments this Summer.

However, if what I am doing is in fact improper, please let me know, and I can stop. I did not see anything wrong with it, but I am in no way perfect, and can be totally wrong.

LtCol Hooligan · July 31, 2009, 08:49:43 PM

Wow- that's very cool!! I bet the parents are relieved and I hope the cadets realize just what they are getting. Perhaps Ned could comment on the FCU and give us more insight. I mean I suppose technically you could issue them to the cadet and then have them turn them in immediately if people really questioned it. Otherwise, if it is against the regs, perhaps a waiver could be had since the cadet is ultimately getting brand new uniforms anyway. Nice job on getting the cadets to look sharp!!

seniormember1976 · August 01, 2009, 02:53:47 AM

We have tried to talk with her regarding this issue, we have since decided to "file" it away. Our unit has a very poor supply of uniforms and we are actually still waiting for her blues to come in. I actually went and bought my own BDUs from an Army/Navy surplus store as they have nothing that would fit. Our unit needs alot of work, so I may be asking many more questions. We were not assigned mentors, our unit has none. So we are kinda muddling our way through and reading the regs and processes we need to take to advance. Thanks to everyone who responded, your thoughts on the issue helped quite a bit!

RiverAux · August 01, 2009, 03:38:23 AM

QuoteI actually went and bought my own BDUs from an Army/Navy surplus store as they have nothing that would fit.

It is rare for seniors to get any free uniform items from CAP. If your squadron had any adult-sized stuff in the supply closet that would be unusual.

Lt Oliv · August 01, 2009, 11:57:00 AM

Quote from: RiverAux on August 01, 2009, 03:38:23 AM
QuoteI actually went and bought my own BDUs from an Army/Navy surplus store as they have nothing that would fit.
It is rare for seniors to get any free uniform items from CAP. If your squadron had any adult-sized stuff in the supply closet that would be unusual.

Our Group has some adult sized stuff, a few blue flight suits and a couple pairs of BDUs. It really isn't that unusual.

Get a really big cadet and whatever they leave behind could probably fit any number of seniors.

Spike · August 02, 2009, 04:11:51 AM

Quote from: seniormember1976 on August 01, 2009, 02:53:47 AM
Our unit has a very poor supply of uniforms and we are actually still waiting for her blues to come in.

Wait, Wait......you said your Daughter was loaned Blues until hers comes in, yet you just said she is waiting on blues, and previously you said your Daughter turned the loaned set back in. Confused?!?!

I got that.....your Daughter got the Captains Blues, gave them back to her, but now still does not have any Blues since you are still waiting on the Free Cadet Uniform??

Why did your Daughter give them back to the Captain? What was the point of your Daughter even borrowing them in the first place??

I just had two female Cadet join (June and July) and we received their uniforms in about 2 weeks from request. One young lady is very small, the other fairly large. No problem on uniform procurement from MCSS Free Cadet Uniform program!