The Uniform Team

[Eclipse]

As I recall there are very few photos floating around, but wasn't / isn't it an orange BDU shirt over blue BDU pants?

[wuzafuzz]

39-1 has lots of inconsistencies.  My thinking would be to do one of two things:

1.  Nuke it, and start from scratch.

2.  Nuke it, and admit to Big Mother Blue that we are too stupid to create a comprehensive policy on uniforms, and request them to write in a chapter of THEIR uniform regulations, "Special Insignia Items and Regulations for the Civil Air Patrol."  That way, whenever the USAF updated their uniforms, ours would automatically follow suit.  (which is how most of the USAF officers already think we operate).

But... We need to make sure that the next revision of 39-1 authorizes brown shirts for Uniform Nazis.  Especially in California. 

Oops, my bad.  California already wears brown shirts! 

They're wearing brown in the picture...

EDIT (I assumed you're meaning for BDU's)

No, I was referring to the deputy sheriff uniforms that CA Wing wears now.  They wear them on SAR missions, and while breaking out the windows of people who wear unit patches on their flight suits.

I thought they were orange? 

Brown would blend better with the black helicopters flown by the CAP Uniform SWAT Division.   

[PHall]

As I recall there are very few photos floating around, but wasn't / isn't it an orange BDU shirt over blue BDU pants?

They're orange "CalTrans" (California Department of Transportation) shirts. Cut the same way as BDU but don't have the bottom set of pockets.

[BrandonKea]

Do I even dare ask how these came into CAP?

[Eclipse]

Do I even dare ask how these came into CAP?

The comments were that it was a California mandate for any SAR team.

Best pic I could find:

[Gunner C]

The class was full every time with a waiting list.  Raise the bar and people will meet it every time.  We were at Pope AFB - part of our job was to sell the program to the AF.  The Pope wing commander noted CAP's professionalism each time the course was run.  These things mean something to the RM.  Since the RM gives us most of our funding, it makes sense to play their game, not yours.

First.....what were you "trying to sell to the AF"??

The wing commander controlls the facilities on the base (through his base commander).  We were trying to garner better, more permanent facilities on base.  You don't do that by looking like one of the rag brothers (Rag, Duffle, and [censored]).  We needed to look and act like members of the AF team.

Second......if an AF Wing Commander bases his opinion on CAP Members Professionalism because of Flight Suits.....he is a terrible Officer, one I would never want to be subordinate to.

The uniform issue was only one part of it.  Part of it was keeping the facilities we had in top notch condition.  Also, we made sure that we were as flawless as possible in our customs and courtesies.  We also responded to no less than 6 ELT missions on Pope in one weekend.  We were also able to repond to an AF request to overfly Pope after that rash of missions (by request of the wing CC through AFRCC) to ensure that they were all shut off (it aparently saved their bacon).  This was all part of a campaign to show the AF that we were an integral part of the base.  It worked.  We got more support than we could shake a stick at.  I'm thinking that the new national cadet activity at Pope is just another spin-off of the ground work we laid years ago.

Third......requiring flight suits and only flight suits for classroom training (??) is silly.  If that was the case what is the reasoning for that??

The first day was 100% classroom.  The next three days were air days.  Instead of having multiple uniforms, we had them wear the same uniform for the entire course. 

Sounds to me like you may be the flight suit wearing member who probably doesn't even own any other uniform.  Great you got your group a ton of free flight suits.....but what happens when the free flights suits run out??  Make a member buy one just to get training?  That is bad leadership.

No, I have a flight suit, a utility uniform, two BBDUs, three BDUs, one service uniform with long and short sleeve shirts, an overcoat, and a mess dress. 

Not only were we able to get flight suits for our entire group, but we were able to supply them to another group plus BDUs for the entire wing.  If you've worked with DRMO, the stuff doesn't run out - it's always being replenished.

Lets all pretend every member is not wealthy.  We need to plan our events so that it costs the individual member as little as possible.

See above.

Just because your class was full does not equate it to being a good training session. 

That's true, but it was the best training you could get outside of NESA (according to one of their former instructors).

Finally......The Real Military (RM) does not give us our funding.  It comes through the Air Force, but it is appropriated by the Federal Government from taxes and decided upon by our elected officials.  CAP asks for money through the AF channels all the way up to DOD.  The Defense Department is not the Real Military.....it is a Government Department with Civilians in charge of it. 

Right, but on the way up, it gets filtered by the RM.  If you piss them off, you'll get less.  Do a lousey job, you'll get less.  Look like a bunch of idiots, you'll get less.  Remember, one "OH CRAP" erases 10,000 "attaboys."

I also hate to say it but.... "being in flight suits" means something to the RM?  Give me a break!

No, but being in the same, correct, mission appropriate uniform does.

[Racer5625]

As a new member, first time to jump in on a topic. I'm 30 years police, most in uniform. Our department has its regs, but also things have changed over the years. We just got mandated to buy a new hat (NYPD style), and I only have 2 years until retirement, but still must buy new hat. I have to admit, one thing that attracted me to CAP is the uniforms. Plan to lose 20 lbs. so I can legally wear the AF blue. I personally would be disappointed to abolish the military stryle uniforms. Just my two cents worth as a newbie. Glad to be here though.

[Cecil DP]

Do I even dare ask how these came into CAP?

The comments were that it was a California mandate for any SAR team.

Best pic I could find:

Looks like the uniforms the local prison road crews wear to dig ditches and clean up highways.

[Gunner C]

Wow, hadn't thought about that.  It really does.  That uniform is about as far from CAP traditions as you can get.

[PHall]

Wow, hadn't thought about that.  It really does.  That uniform is about as far from CAP traditions as you can get.

CAP Traditions has nothing to do with it. California OES (now CalEMA) told us, "you want to do Ground Team ops in our state, you'll follow our rules".

[BrandonKea]

Wow, hadn't thought about that.  It really does.  That uniform is about as far from CAP traditions as you can get.

CAP Traditions has nothing to do with it. California OES (now CalEMA) told us, "you want to do Ground Team ops in our state, you'll follow our rules".

Silly Cah-Lee-Four-Nee-Yah. Is that still the case?

[PHall]

Wow, hadn't thought about that.  It really does.  That uniform is about as far from CAP traditions as you can get.

CAP Traditions has nothing to do with it. California OES (now CalEMA) told us, "you want to do Ground Team ops in our state, you'll follow our rules".

Silly Cah-Lee-Four-Nee-Yah. Is that still the case?

Please leave your California bashing at the door. I don't make fun of your state, don't make fun of mine.

And yes, OES still requires Ground Teams, in the field to wear the orange shirts.
Not required for UDF missions since they're like, urban!

[BrandonKea]

Wow, hadn't thought about that.  It really does.  That uniform is about as far from CAP traditions as you can get.

CAP Traditions has nothing to do with it. California OES (now CalEMA) told us, "you want to do Ground Team ops in our state, you'll follow our rules".

Silly Cah-Lee-Four-Nee-Yah. Is that still the case?

Please leave your California bashing at the door. I don't make fun of your state, don't make fun of mine.

And yes, OES still requires Ground Teams, in the field to wear the orange shirts.
Not required for UDF missions since they're like, urban!

I have all the love in the world for Cali, no hate intended 

[Always Ready]

And yes, OES still requires Ground Teams, in the field to wear the orange shirts.

Honestly, that's one of the things I like about California. Orange vests are ok, but orange shirts won't get confused for military personnel, police, or hunters. There are some people who aren't helpful at all (and sometimes get nasty) if they think you are one of the groups of people I listed. Don't get me wrong, it's fugly looking, but I like being seen and seen as help. YMMV

Edit: I try to wear the BBDU here. It is closely associated with EMTs and is seen as help to almost everyone.

[heliodoc]

CAP traditions or NOT!!  That's what is amazing... CAP "traditions" not seeing what others in the REAL world are doing

An orange shirt is just as good as some orange vest..

CAP is not the only ones in the SAR biz

If CAL OES and CAL FIRE call it, who are we to argue with the paid professionals on the West Coast who probably do SAR as much or MORE than CAP

I can support, as a CAP member, what CAL OES has in mind for practicality sake

[JohnKachenmeister]

Not meaning to bash, but...

Only California (and the CAP National Legal Officer, maybe) would consider the wearing of the uniform of our country to be somehow "Wrong."

49 other states have no problem with the Air Force Auxiliary wearing the uniform of the United States Air Force.

[Larry Mangum]

I am all for wearing the CAP uniform and the Air Force uniform in accordance with regulations, however except for the requirement that Aircrews be in a CAP uniform, and that Seniors need to be in uniform when working with cadets, I challenge you to find a regulation that defines a SAR uniform.  You can't, in fact, last time I checked you cannot even find a reference in capr 60-3 to a uniform being required for an operational mission.

Before I get flammed, I do believe in professionalism and believe that a properly outfitted and worn uniform helps create that image to others. 

[Gunner C]

Not meaning to bash, but...

Only California (and the CAP National Legal Officer, maybe) would consider the wearing of the uniform of our country to be somehow "Wrong."

49 other states have no problem with the Air Force Auxiliary wearing the uniform of the United States Air Force.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[JohnKachenmeister]

I am all for wearing the CAP uniform and the Air Force uniform in accordance with regulations, however except for the requirement that Aircrews be in a CAP uniform, and that Seniors need to be in uniform when working with cadets, I challenge you to find a regulation that defines a SAR uniform.  You can't, in fact, last time I checked you cannot even find a reference in capr 60-3 to a uniform being required for an operational mission.

Before I get flammed, I do believe in professionalism and believe that a properly outfitted and worn uniform helps create that image to others.

OK

Wear whatever uniform you want.

Here in Florida, we are proud to wear the uniform of our country.

California apparently has a problem with it.

[Spike]

Where I am from you can wear whatever color uniform you want, but I seriously doubt if anyone will see you through the trees.

Point in case.....UDF is somehow different?  Would think you would want to be seen in urban environments as well.....right??  Silly California! 

And yes, OES still requires Ground Teams, in the field to wear the orange shirts.
Not required for UDF missions since they're like, urban!