Is Membership Termination Automatic?

[Duke Dillio]

Okay, so we know that when you go to join CAP as an officer, you send in the fingerprint card, they review it, and if bad stuff comes up you can't "Come and Play."  My question is that after your initial entry to CAP, do they review your criminal record at all?  Let's say, for instance, you got busted for having child porn on your computer or you smoked some dude for sleeping with your girlfriend.  Do you have to tell CAP?  Does someone from CAP have to call them?  Does CAP get a letter from the FBI saying that you just did something?  Do they automatically terminate your membership?  Anybody know?

[jimmydeanno]

To my knowledge there aren't periodic reviews of our members criminal records, only at the point of entry. In a perfect world we would have recurring background checks, but obviously the expense is there and it is a legitimate concern.

However, at a minimum I do think that the organization should at least conduct credit checks and criminal checks prior to someone holding a corporate officer position and then bi-annually after that.

I would assume that it would be pretty difficult for someone in a local unit to be arrested and such, disappear for a while and come back without someone knowing what happened.  Upon discovery of something mischievious it is your responsibility to report that and membership termination will occur upon the individual being found guilty of whatever crime they committed.  If it is something that is really bad, they'll probably be suspended - pending the outcome of the trial.

[James Shaw]

I do believe that  if you become a Wing Commander or Regional Commander than they will do another check. You are in direct control of alot of assets and money.

[Trung Si Ma]

Don't forget the recheck if you want to do CD missions

[Eclipse]

The quick answer is "no". There are no recurring checks for rank and file members, so you could do semi-bad stuff and continue to participate, at least until someone got wind.

Wing CC's are given a new background check which includes more detail regarding financial history.

CD applicants aren't given "new" one, per se, its a different agency and a whole lot more detailed (and expensive) than the regular, basic FBI check.

[Duke Dillio]

So if someone molested a child or had child porn or was convicted of another felony it takes someone turning them in to put them out of CAP?  Pardon me for saying so but that seems like something that needs to be fixed in a hurry.  Granted, you cannot say that someone is guilty just because they were charged but when they are convicted, there should be some sort of notification.  I know in some states, people that are convicted of certain things are served with a sort of restraining order which prevents them from having contact with minors.  Anyone know anything about this as well?

[Eclipse]

A restraining order is just a piece of paper - only means something when people know about it and then only after you violate it.

I don't disagree with your sentiment, but there's simply no global notification system that we could lock into, this is one of the reasons vigilance is so important for unit CC's.

We're in the same boat as every school, employer, and similar organization (BSA, GSA, etc.), and that doesn't even account for the countless people who are never convicted, or don't register, etc.

[Duke Dillio]

When you do the CPP training, they tell you to report anything suspected to your unit commander.  If you got information on someone from a different state, how would you report it then?  This is probably something else that needs to be addressed.  Like, if I found out that someone from a different region was arrested, where in the regs does it tell you how to report.  I'll check out the CPP stuff again, but I really don't recall them discussing this matter.  In the global environment we are in now, this is something we really need to push upward.  This might have been discussed before but I couldn't find it using the search feature.

[James Shaw]

So if someone molested a child or had child porn or was convicted of another felony it takes someone turning them in to put them out of CAP?  Pardon me for saying so but that seems like something that needs to be fixed in a hurry.  Granted, you cannot say that someone is guilty just because they were charged but when they are convicted, there should be some sort of notification.  I know in some states, people that are convicted of certain things are served with a sort of restraining order which prevents them from having contact with minors.  Anyone know anything about this as well?

As a former Deputy Sheriff I can tell you that there are specific laws that are designed to keep those that have committed these offenses away from children. Georgia has some of the toughest laws in the country when it comes to this. There are also national and local registires online that enables anyone to findout if someone they know is an offender. They are required by law to register in their state. This does not always happen but it should. Technically they should never even apply for membership since we have an active cadet program. It may even be considered a probation violation if they try!

[Eclipse]

When you do the CPP training, they tell you to report anything suspected to your unit commander.  If you got information on someone from a different state, how would you report it then?  This is probably something else that needs to be addressed.  Like, if I found out that someone from a different region was arrested, where in the regs does it tell you how to report.  I'll check out the CPP stuff again, but I really don't recall them discussing this matter.  In the global environment we are in now, this is something we really need to push upward.  This might have been discussed before but I couldn't find it using the search feature.

If you have information about a member that would potentially preclude their membership, its your responsibility to CAP and the other members to inform your CC.

Once informed it is his responsibility to act, and depending on the allegation, there are very specific steps that he may need to take.

You don't want to be the guy who "knew and didn't say anything".

[Duke Dillio]

Well, I know that they will get caught if they are trying to join.  I'm wondering more about the people that are already in.  If someone has been in for a while and then gets charged or convicted of something, CAP might never find out.  I think that I saw a post in a forum a while ago where someone suggested that every five years we should do an additional background check but why pay for it when we can use the Megan's Law websites?  Granted, those websites only list those who have been convicted but still, it is better than nothing.

[jimmydeanno]

Granted, those websites only list those who have been convicted but still, it is better than nothing.

As opposed to lists that include people who haven't been convicted of anything?  That's a lawsuit waiting to happen...

[Stonewall]

I am actually fighting this uphill battle at work.  I am a [new] security director for a company that employs 900+ people.  After settling in I started asking questions to learn the system, to include that of our hiring practices.  We conduct an initial background check of 7 years and, if your job requires you to drive a company vehicle, a driving record check.

My questions was similar to the OP's.  Once hired, you could be here for 20 years, lost y our license, convicted of felonies, gone bankrupt and still be a department head overseeing the nursery, millions of dollars, and driving a company car.

Our HR director explained that we do what is required by law, nothing more and nothing less.  He was even upset that when I was hiring a few people from another department, into security, I asked for a driving record.  2 of the 4 had suspended licenses and were turned away.  He informed me that I need to do "recurring checks" on everyone or we can get sued.  When I hear this terminology, I think of risk-averse people who are scared, using fear, uncertainty, and doubt instead of reason.

[James Shaw]

Our HR director explained that we do what is required by law, nothing more and nothing less.  He was even upset that when I was hiring a few people from another department, into security, I asked for a driving record.  2 of the 4 had suspended licenses and were turned away.  He informed me that I need to do "recurring checks" on everyone or we can get sued.  When I hear this terminology, I think of risk-averse people who are scared, using fear, uncertainty, and doubt instead of reason.

As an HR professional I can definitley tell you that the HR person at your work is saving you alot of possible hassle when it comes to doing any type of search. The EEOC will nail a company that doesnt have the same exact process for all employees regardless of position. They can be fined heavily for violations. The director said they do nothing more and nothing less. This is the sentiment that has to be taken. If you offer more than they question more. If you offer what is required than they don't look as hard.

As an example: I know of a company I was doing interviews for and had an interview partner. The candidate said the word "actually" 184 times in our 20 minute conversation. The other interviewer wrote the word on his interview sheet and made little hash marks every time they said it. At the end of the interview the person saw the sheet and asked the panel director about it. They also reported it to the local EEOC office and the plant got fined for improper behavior $5000. The individual did not make the cut but was passed through to the second phase because of the violation. They eventually got hired "wonder why" and stayed for 6 months before getting fired for falsifying time sheets.

[jimmydeanno]

I used to work for an enormous (27 Trillion in managed assets) investment/financial institution, in Risk Assessment.  Our job was to perform the following checks on EVERY SINGLE person that wanted to work for them, in any way.  The check included:

1) Criminal History
2) Credit Check
3) Education Verification
4) Employment History Verification (included position, salary, dates of employment, reason for termination, etc).
5) 10 Reference Checks

This applied to Temporary Employees, Full-Time Employees, Contractors, Consultants, the guy coming to fix the plumbing, cleaners, etc.  You'd be amazed at what people lie about and risk their job over.  For example, we'd have people that would say they earned 40K per year at their last job, when in reality they earned 34K.  That cost them a job.  People that said they quit their last job but were fired.  That cost them a job.  Then there is just the plain stupidity, like applying for a job in the finance industry after being convicted of embezzlement and fraud.  People even fake having degrees (saying you had a degree when you hadn't been physically awarded it yet was grounds for dismissal).  I was actually surprised at the number of people who pay for their degrees from diploma farms (websites, etc that say "give us $200.00 and we'll send you a graduate degree).

Anyway, when I started they didn't conduct recurring background checks.  About 3 months into the job they started the program and we ended up letting about 1,000 people company wide go.  It was mostly because of financial irresponsibility (too much debt, delinquent accounts, poor credit scores, etc.), but there were a few that were convicted of felonies after being employed, but didn't serve any jail time.  

There are a lot of sneaky people in the world.  Sexual deviants and theives are particularly sneaky and it's something we need to protect our corporation and our members from.  

[desertengineer1]

Former Squadron CC here.  This is one of the hardest tasks I had to manage.

CAP has to strike a balance between two extremes.  On one hand we have to keep people with criminal records from joining.  On the other hand, we do not have the resources to repeatedly investigate members.  Even the DoD can't do that on everybody.  The initial is an NCIC type check when you apply for membership.  If a conviction, charge, or something questionable is found, they will normally get a letter from NHQ asking for an explanation within a certain amount of time, or an immediate determination.  If they do not respond within that period, or a determination is made not to accept their membership, the prospective member and the squadron CC will receive another letter stating why.  I don't think financial problems are a reason for denial, or at least they shouldn't be if not conduct related.  But usually you'll see criminal charges in those cases.

As for regular members, you serve as a privilege, not a right.  The formal processes are many to ensure fairness, but ultimately the wing CC is the first-level authority for terminations.  I think you can bet on a 2B with a felony conviction.  People have been terminated for much less.

[Pylon]

My employer works with a population particularly susceptible to abuse, people with developmental disabilities.  We fingerprint and conduct background check on all employees and volunteers at hire.  I don't know how it works or what kind of program it is, but our agency's HR department does get an automatic notification when an employee or volunteer is arrested.  While I believe this is coordinated at the state-level (New York State), I wonder if there are options like that for CAP at the national level? 

[davidsinn]

Something to be aware: a speeding ticket is a felony in some states( I think Nevada is one.) So not all felonies are alike.

[Duke Dillio]

In the Army, the local police agencies would contact the military police on post when they arrested one of the soldiers.  The person would appear on a "blotter" and the MP's would get them and transfer them to the base jail.  Then, the commander or 1SG would go get them, depending on the charges of course.  I understand that there is some sort of system involved in the whole system.

[dwb]

People who are convicted of higher profile crimes like murder and possession of child pornography tend to be all over the local news (and occasionally national news), making it very likely one of their CAP brethren will notice the story and report them.

That being said, there's really not a way to prevent against the edge cases.  For example, dude maintains his membership in a 000 unit, moves out of state, is convicted of a crime, then becomes active again in a new Wing after he gets out of prison.

One on hand, there's no system to protect against that, on the other hand, that is an extremely rare occurrence and probably not worth the effort.