skill evaluator trainer

[hatentx]

I saw this course on e services and I was wondering what they are for.  is this the SET that signs off the training?  if so what can they sign off with it?

[DC]

SET enables you to sign other individuals off for ES quals. With SET training you can sign off on any specialty that appears on your 101 card.

[SarDragon]

SET enables you to sign other individuals off for ES quals. With SET training you can sign off on any specialty that appears on your 101 card.

..., provided you have an equal or higher level rating (required in a few cases) as the one being signed off, and you actually evaluate task completion IAW the task guide(s).

[hatentx]

and that is only for es stuff?  so that would be UDF and GT 1 2 and 3 right or is there more?

[DC]

and that is only for es stuff?  so that would be UDF and GT 1 2 and 3 right or is there more?

ES stuff includes a lot more than GT and UDF, it also encompasses Aircrew and Mission Base Staff quals.

I'm sure you can find a list in E-Services somewhere.

[SarDragon]

The easiest place to look would be the CAPR 60-3.

[hatentx]

gotcha so what ever I have signed off then I can sign off for other people with few exceptions

[addo1]

  I am confused... I have taken SET and have it on my 101.  What does this mean?

[jeders]

hatentx, what wing are you in? Your screen name makes it seem like you're in Texas Wing, in which case SET is pretty much pointless. Unless you are on the Texas Wing ES Evaluator list, you cannot sign off anyone as far as Texas Wing is concerned.

[Camas]

  I am confused... I have taken SET and have it on my 101.  What does this mean?

It means that you can sign off people who hold ES specialties at or below your ES level. In a nutshell, if you're an IC you can sign off almost anyone; if you're a MRO you can sign off MRO trainees only. The SET program is the successor to the short-lived Train-the-Trainer or TTT program that existed back around 2002 or so. In many wings it succeeded but in others the TTT program was a flop as I understand it.

[hatentx]

Yep Im in Texas wing how did you guess?     So you have to been on the wing list...How do you get there?  I am new to this all so just trying to get an idea.  Why does the Texas wing make you be on the list?

[jeders]

Yep Im in Texas wing how did you guess?     So you have to been on the wing list...How do you get there?  I am new to this all so just trying to get an idea.

Your Squadron Commander has to submit your name to Wing saying that you are qualified and experienced enough to be an evaluator.

Why does the Texas wing make you be on the list?

If you ever figure out why Col. Smith did that, many of us would like to know.

[hatentx]

so just the commanders recommendation? then that seem dumb  I could see maybe having that course require the commander's approval top go on your 101 card but other than that I dont get it if Col Smith isnt seeing you or the paperwork

[CadetProgramGuy]

SET means that you have taken the training to be a Skills Evaluator to sign off for SQTR's.

However, Comma, you need to be assigned by wing to be a Skills Evaluator for the purpose of signing off said SQTR's.

One thing to remember though.....When and if you get the ability to sign off the SQTR's you are allowed to sign off any skills for any SQTR, if you have that skill already, with a few exceptions....

For example if you have been a GTL for less than one year, you are allowed to sign off any GTM, but not GTL's.

Once you have had a skill for a year or more, you are allowed to sign off for that skill.

Clear as mud?

[IceNine]

^ Nope.

There is not time limit, there may be in Iowa but there isn't in the regs.

Every wing does the SET program differently. Here in IL you have to be approved for each specialty that you want to evaluate.  And that takes an email from the commander saying you are competent

[AlphaSigOU]

In Texas Wing, the eServices SET freebie qual ain't worth the paper it's printed on. To become SET qualified in the Lone Star State you must have your commander submit your name and qualifications to become SET qualified up the chain. You must have been active and qualified in the specialty track for at least a year or have plenty of experience if less than that. Final approval comes from the wing king.

I have experience in several specialties, but cannot sign off trainees until I get anointed to the SET list.

[heliodoc]

To all the above threads................

Hypothetical....   what happens if I am already NASAR / outdoor education / qualified educator with a degree in outdoor education  coupled with say NOLS etc  ......    How do I then rate in any Wing let alone Texas??  How about ex infantry skills that some posters here seem to address.

I am not talking how to operate a LAW, AT-4 or any "exotic" equipment.. just basic map and compass skills and I do know in the last few years with everyone thinking GPS is the end all, the loss of some map and compass skills is pretty obvious in both cadets and seniors.

That in itself requires more than some individual(s) at any Wing thinking they control all.  There is some merit to having one individual maybe overseeing, but if I have previous experience in outdoor skills and I can teach these skills to people and sign them off locally, then why all this Wing control stuff.

Either accept what CAP has already, and trust that this can be taught at the local level or prove to the membership that the WIng gods have 1) real experience in these skills EVERYDAY and 2) are going to administer a program correctly.  The idea of ONE person thinking that they are the god of SET at the Wing level UNLESS they know everything ES and being able to administer this type of operation seems like a power and GOB mentality.  CAP needs to tighten up the SET's , that is for sure or have a NATIONAL outdoor/ES in EVERY state and be able to TEACH and understand the methods of teaching.  I know there are educators out there that I have seen that can synthesize (sp) the info from the MART and GS books out there, do the training and do rather well, leaving the whole argument about one figure at Wing a pretty moot point.  More about power than REAL education, I would think.

[jimmydeanno]

To all the above threads................

Hypothetical....   what happens if I am already NASAR / outdoor education / qualified educator with a degree in outdoor education  coupled with say NOLS etc  ......    How do I then rate in any Wing let alone Texas??  How about ex infantry skills that some posters here seem to address.

I am not talking how to operate a LAW, AT-4 or any "exotic" equipment.. just basic map and compass skills and I do know in the last few years with everyone thinking GPS is the end all, the loss of some map and compass skills is pretty obvious in both cadets and seniors.

That in itself requires more than some individual(s) at any Wing thinking they control all.  There is some merit to having one individual maybe overseeing, but if I have previous experience in outdoor skills and I can teach these skills to people and sign them off locally, then why all this Wing control stuff.

Either accept what CAP has already, and trust that this can be taught at the local level or prove to the membership that the WIng gods have 1) real experience in these skills EVERYDAY and 2) are going to administer a program correctly.  The idea of ONE person thinking that they are the god of SET at the Wing level UNLESS they know everything ES and being able to administer this type of operation seems like a power and GOB mentality.  CAP needs to tighten up the SET's , that is for sure or have a NATIONAL outdoor/ES in EVERY state and be able to TEACH and understand the methods of teaching.  I know there are educators out there that I have seen that can synthesize (sp) the info from the MART and GS books out there, do the training and do rather well, leaving the whole argument about one figure at Wing a pretty moot point.  More about power than REAL education, I would think.

I don't think they have just one person who is the "God of SET."  What they are trying to avoid is having 12 year old Cadet Snuffy who happened to come across the SET training while doing his GES test and has a UDF rating but isn't strong enough in it to actually teach people from signing off.

The SET program operates on the assumption that "because you've graduated second grade you're qualified to teach it" approach, which, IMO, is bad. 

I prefer wings that have programs like TXWG because the evaulators have been checked out and the person at wing supervising knows that the training is being conducted properly, by someone who knows their crap.

For example, I'm a rated MO and I have SET.  Technically in my wing I could sign off all the MOs I wanted to.  The quality of the MOs coming out of my sign-off wouldn't be that great because I don't have loads of experience in the air.  I can use the stuff I need to but am not strong enough to teach others to effectively. 

The only time that methods like this become difficult is when your squadron or none of the surrounding ones have someone who is on the sign-off list.  You want to ramp your ES program but there is noone around to sign-off on the training.  It's a catch 22.

So it sounds like in your situation, with your [hypothetical?] skills you could just show the evaluator that you are that high speed, get your SQTRs signed off for the applicable rating and get your name added to the list to sign-off.  BAM! Done.

[heliodoc]

Mr Deanno

What defines checked out??  Like the SQTR's for MP/ MO/ MS- 2 sorties?  25 actual missions? 

There is a whole "lotta" room for how to check someone out other I am Col so and so

[jimmydeanno]

There is a whole "lotta" room for how to check someone out other I am Col so and so

The programs I have seen operate much like getting your solo pilot rating, when the instructor is comfortable with you going alone, off you go.  It is subjective, how they "feel" about how you train, if you follow the guides, etc.  Even our SQTRs are subjective when you think about it, at what level is the person considered proficient enough for sign-off?

My last wing, this was the procedure...You get your training to obtain the minimum skills needed to earn the rating (GTM-3, UDF, etc).  At that point you would express your desire to become an evaluator.  Then at a SAREX or other training, one of the already signed off evaluators will have you teach things for that rating and determine whether or not you did a sufficient job.  Once they see that you have the skills to teach other people, they add you to the list.  If not, they let you know what you need to work on before being able to do so.  They weren't looking to prevent people from being evaluators.

Sometimes it doesn't work as well as some would hope, only because you might get the wrong person as the approving authority.  Someone who is full of themselves and tries to retain "the power."  But those people are few and very far between-it probably happens more at your own job than here.

Many times people assume things are a certain way and never investigate how things really are.  I've seen people think there is a big GOBC and never pursued training, only to have the guy next to him get all the training he wanted because he had the guts to ask for it.

Most (99.8%) people in CAP are in it for the right reasons and aren't looking to screw people over in the name of their own power trips.  IMO, having designated evaluators is a good thing and I'm sure that any one of them could tell you what the determining criteria is in your wing.

Anyway, even if someone below the evaluator knows more than they do, hopefully, that person will become an evaluator and be able to increase the level of training, eventually propagating the rest of their students and hopefully moving up in the chain of command to increase their span of influence.

(Mr. Deanno  )