AD help with CAP activities

[hatentx]

Okay so I am new as I think I have said a few times before and my SQD doesnt have the Active duty participation as one would think being so close to a huge military base.  I am wondering how much of there Active Duty resource are the members of CAP able to use?

I am wondering about bases privileges?

What about TMPs?  If we were to have a large trip or take a trip to the base could it be possible to use there 15 pac or even a bus?

Will it matter if it being an AF or Army base?

If we were to decide to do training can we sign a training area from Range Control?  What about weapon or Aircraft simulators?  I know alot would depend on the Installation but I am wondering what has happened in the past so that I can have an idea what to expect if it comes to a point were we are looking for help or such?

[Eclipse]

Without a benevolent sponsor on base, the odds of being able to use the things you mentioned are pretty slim.

You should start with your State Director and go from there, that is his job, after all.

As to military transport, forget it.  Not only is the availability of those vehicles scare (maybe you are looking at one right now, so take this as you will, but the Navy base I frequent doesn't have them anymore and uses civilian bus services). the insurance issues for both sides of the coin (you getting hurt, or you breaking the vehicle) are daunting.

[hatentx]

Well I am Active Duty so the sponsor thing I would see as being to easy.  Would it be better to try and get a unit to "adopt" my Squadron?  Not that any of this is needed but I am just wondering in case the oh S*** comes up and we have options.

[PhoenixRisen]

Okay so I am new as I think I have said a few times before and my SQD doesnt have the Active duty participation as one would think being so close to a huge military base.  I am wondering how much of there Active Duty resource are the members of CAP able to use?

My current squadron meets on an Air National Guard base.  We're right across the freeway from Marine Corps Air Station Miramar (largest MCAS), and at the moment, out of the squadron's 30+ SM's, we only have 2 Marines (one of 'em isn't even from Miramar, but from up the road at Camp Pendleton).  We also have a Navy E-8 from southern San Diego.

I am wondering about bases privileges?

To my knowledge, despite there's a "regulation" that says we're allowed to use the uniform center / MCSS, it's up to the base commander.  (I could be wrong.)

If we were to decide to do training can we sign a training area from Range Control?  What about weapon or Aircraft simulators?  I know alot would depend on the Installation but I am wondering what has happened in the past so that I can have an idea what to expect if it comes to a point were we are looking for help or such?

In this case, I believe it's simply a matter of who you know.  Every year, CAWG encampment is held on an Army base (majority of the time, being Camp San Luis Obispo).  They get to use the range, combat simulator and get o-rides (though, I heard that this year - right now, actually - they couldn't secure O-rides and for safety reasons, aren't using the range).

Locally, my sister squadron's commander takes a group of Cadets to the flight simulators at MCAS Miramar.  IIRC, he arranges this through his "contacts" due to his status as a retired Navy captain.

[Eclipse]

Well I am Active Duty so the sponsor thing I would see as being to easy.  Would it be better to try and get a unit to "adopt" my Squadron?  Not that any of this is needed but I am just wondering in case the oh S*** comes up and we have options.

You still should consult your State Director, any interaction between CAP and the military in a given state is his responsibility, prior relationship or not, at least during the initial setup phase.

Your being on the base and willing to hand-hold contacts and issues may get things moving faster.

[hatentx]

Wow really it is like that?  SO to even bring the Cadets on Post and show them the Aircraft even though I have the Battalion Commanders blessing I would still need to go through the State Director?  That really seems like a ton of work just to get the cadets to go see some helicopter and play on the computer simulators. 

On transportation ans such I can see the possible issue with liability and having to get someone from the installation or licensed that individual on a vehicle.  How would I need to go about finding my State Director?

[mikeylikey]

I direct you to CAP-USAFI 10-2701 http://level2.cap.gov/documents/CAP_USAFI_10_2701.pdf

Read the part about the State Director.  He or she should be the coordinator for CAP activities on military installations.


However, I routinely setup training for SQDs, sign out billets, mess and ranges for CAP.  If you are AD, walk over to the training office, or Garrison HQ and talk with the civilian liason.  

There is an AF reg floating around out there that specifically said "DoD programs, and organizations must help CAP when such help does not interfere with normal operations, nor cost them anything".  I just can't find it at the moment.  

Do you have a CAPRAP??  Call the State Director to find out who your CAPRAP is.  

[hatentx]

I dont even know what that is.  Sorry I am the new guy.  My commander had asked if there was anything I could try and set up with the Base and my unit being that I am in an Aviation unit.  I just know that going to see some helicopter that cant be turned on is not that much fun so I was trying to see if any other things could be done and seeing what resourses we have at our disopial. 

You said a AF reg that doesn't do me a ton of good unless it was a DOD directive being that I would be usuing an Army base.   

I will try and track down the State Director and try to do this as Kosher as I can.

[Eclipse]

The AFI quoted is the governing regulation for the USAF and CAP, so it applies to the CAP side of this discussion at a minimum.  In every case I have ever seen, it is supported in a reciprocal fashion by the other services, in addition to the fact that it is what authorizes our "Space-A" use of various military resources as well as emergency medical care for members while using those resources.

If you don't know what a CAPRAP is, then you have other issues of disconnection from the CAP-USAF side of the universe as your unit is supposed to be getting regular visits from one (them).  In some states manpower shortages preclude these, but you should at least be aware of the totality of the program, especially if you intend to try and use military resources.

I have a close working relationship with my states SD (his desk is next to mine). Its a "pay me now or pay me later" situation - do things through channels and yo may be surprised what can be accomplished, but at least you'll never have to be looking over your shoulder.

Do things outside channels and you could find access to military resources completely cut off or VERY difficult to acquire, inside connections or not.

Bear in mind when making requests that most SD's have to get approval from a regional commander and the regional CC's, especially, know the rules and the program.  The one for GLR, for example, is flexible and willing to work with reasonable requests, but the quickest way to get removed form his Christmas card list is trying to sneak something by him.

State Directors are civilian employees of CAP-USAF (though most are current or recent reservists) they are primarily tasked with protection of assets and adherence to regs and policies in regards to activities, ES training and missions, and as we're discussing, liaison authority and responsibility for any military resources CAP may wish to utilize.  They have "all-stop" authority in certain instances, but are not in the CAP chain of command.

CAPRAPS are reservists who assist CAP units with various leadership and logistical issues, perform inspections, act as evaluators during training exercises, etc.  They are not paid but instead are compensated through retirement points, per diem and reimbursed expenses.

[FW]

^Just one small correction:  State Directors are civilian DoD employees working for CAP-USAF, not CAP.

They are very good at what they do.  As said, use them.

[hatentx]

hey like I said I am about a month into this world of CAP so I am learning as I go. 

[Eclipse]

^Just one small correction:  State Directors are civilian DoD employees working for CAP-USAF, not CAP.

They are very good at what they do.  As said, use them.

Yah, my bad.

CAPRAP, BTW, stands for "CAP Reserve Assistance Program"

[afgeo4]

Usually if your boss and you and the CAP end all want an event to happen, the state director will quickly sign off on it. It's just a formality to make sure everyone is covered (what if something happens to a cadet at the activity?) and so that all parties are happy with the arrangement.

Speak to the director. He/she should be fine with it if your BC is good to go. I'm sure they'll even approve orientation rides on those air blenders of yours.

[DNall]

You're in Texas? LtCol Brown is our state director, and I can tell you from vast experience in this area that it functions with nothing like the formality that's being described.

You are completely free to make & utilize contacts on your base to get a whole range of things for your unit, HIGHLY encouraged to do so in fact. ALL you need to do is shoot an email to LtCol Brown to keep him in the loop on what you're doing. He just wants to have some oversight to make sure you're not doing things we aren't allowed to do (shooting missiles or something), are not exposing CAP to undue liability, and that when cool stuff comes up that you invite other units from the Gp to come along. Other then that, he is there to vouch for you/CAP, and to provide whatever support you need to better your program. He's not going to do your foot work for you. Once you have a working relationship in place with the base/units and the state director is keyed in, then you don't have to continue updating him on every little thing, just a quarterly email or something along those lines. If you get into big time stuff, like actually flying cadets or something that's not attainable by you on the local level (within the BC's authority) then the state director can help you try to work that out at higher.

[RiverAux]

Keep in mind CAPR 10-1:

2b. CAP units will not correspond directly with any military activity except Headquarters CAP-USAF and CAP-USAF liaison regions and wing liaison offices, or as specifically authorized by other CAP regulations/ manuals.

How this is applied may vary from state to state. 

[Eclipse]

Keep in mind CAPR 10-1:

2b. CAP units will not correspond directly with any military activity except Headquarters CAP-USAF and CAP-USAF liaison regions and wing liaison offices, or as specifically authorized by other CAP regulations/ manuals.

How this is applied may vary from state to state. 

Yes, your best best is to err on the side of caution and build credibility vs. running by yourself and hacking off an SD, especially if you are new to the process.

I have a fair amount of latitude with my SD because of the above, and my sensitivity to his and CAP's position with respect to military resources.  Others in my state have not followed the same line and have significantly less latitude.

Part of the issue here is avoiding duplication of effort and telling the same story externally - a quick not or call to the SD asking if "anyone else is doing anything up at "x" base, because I think I'd like to do "y"..." avoids us looking like disconnected Yahoo's with the base liaisons and commanders.

Its a common courtesy and professionalism issue as much as anything else, because >especially< with military units, there is only "one CAP" and we all get the stink on us when someone screws the pooch.

[DNall]

^granted... but, we have dozens & dozens of military (active/guard/res) facilities around the state, probably hundreds actually. The state director cannot legitimately liaise with all local mil resources to deliver the best services to the local unit.

You do need to build relationships with local mil resources. Then you do need to make contact with the state director when seeking to tap those resources for local use. What he's going to basically do is appoint you the CAP liaison to that resource, and expect you to report back to him on what's going on so he can keep oversight of the situation. He is still formally in charge of the situation, but you are making it happen on the ground.

If you call your state director with a wish list of things you want from area mil units & no way to get it done or even a lot of hard work required to make it happen, then you'll get absolutely nothing.

[mikeylikey]

^ Heck my SD is not even in my State.  He lives in NJ, and works primarily with NJWG.

I am the contact for the military for a number of squadrons and two groups.  I have no issue setting up training and working out logistics.  I don't even liaison with the Wing Command because it is pointless to.  I used to send the SD an email with the results of what I setup, until he said I did not need to any more.

Another point is every AF Base should have a CAP liaison.  It is part of some AF reg the base commander in supposed to follow.  My local base has not had a CAP Liaison Officer in over 20 years.  Instead I made an appointment to see the Base Commander (since we are a unit on his base) and got the green light to work directly with all the other units on the base.  He had no problem.  I should point out that every CAP SQD Commander that has a unit on a military Base/ Post/ Installation should try to make an appointment to see the Post/ Garrison/ Base Commander at least once a year.  It is good etiquette.   

[afgeo4]

I've never heard of a Base CAP liaison officer. Isn't that kind of stuff conducted by USAF-Civilian office on base or Public Affairs?

There is an enlisted AFSC in USAF Res for CAP Squadron level liaisons, but there's nothing outside of CAP-USAF that allows officers to be liaisons. That's why CAP-USAF exists in the first place. Dedicated full-time staff to liaison between CAP and USAF.

USAF is encouraged to have officers tasked as liaisons between USAF and civilian organizations and I guess CAP could be considered one (although from USAF side, I wouldn't). That function is fulfilled by various people on base though and usually the Public Affairs office.

[mikeylikey]

^ It is an additional duty job for an Officer.  Each AD base is required to have one.