Bill Payment

[flyguync]

I have a member that used to pay the electric and phone bills as his contribution to the sqdn.

I was told by Wing Legal and Finance Yes and during a BS IG investigation No  that everything has to go through the Wing Banker eh Hedge Fund, and since then it has been hard to get the bills paid through said hedge fund and our utilities have been disconnected.

The question is for the CAPTALK world is are there any prohibititions against someone paying the bills?

Discuss please

[Flying Pig]

Interesting.  So a member is trying to contribute by paying the bills?  Are the utilities set up in his name?  If not, I wonder if Wing is looking at it like a donation and that is why they say there should be a record.

I would say first Wing Legal/Finance and IG need to get on the same page.  If legal and finance gave you the thumbs up I'd say your good to go.

[fireplug]

I have a member that used to pay the electric and phone bills as his contribution to the sqdn.

I was told by Wing Legal and Finance Yes and during a BS IG investigation No  that everything has to go through the Wing Banker eh Hedge Fund, and since then it has been hard to get the bills paid through said hedge fund and our utilities have been disconnected.

The question is for the CAPTALK world is are there any prohibititions against someone paying the bills?

Discuss please

1. Assuming your unit has the funds on hand, have the utility bills sent directly to Wing. That should cut down the turn-around time for payment.

2. The IG should quote you chapter and verse of the regs. However, I think this might be some of the auditing rules that don't yet appear in the regs.
Squadrons can't take money and turn it around themselves.
Donations that don't pass through the Squadron, I don't know. Good luck.

[TankerT]

Well.  First of all, the IG doesn't answer questions like this.  That is not what the IG does.

The IG only investigates.  If there was an investigation, the result is a report which must cite regulations as to why something is found to be against regulations.

And, the IG cannot make recommendations.  The IG only provides facts.  Then, a Commander must make a decision based on IG findings.  Also, Legal only provides legal advice to the commander.  They are not supposed to be making decisions.

The Finance Officer... if they know what is going on, should be able to tell you the straight facts.

Wing Banker doesn't pay bills unless your unit has a recurring expense authorization on file with your Wing authorizing recurring bills to be paid, or you submit a one time request to have them paid.  (That would be for each time you want a bill paid.) 

Wing banker is just another way to manage your money.  It doesn't tell you what you can or cannot do with your money, other than what the regulations already state. 

Now, if the member was paying your bills, and then submitting for reimbursement so he/she can get airline miles on their credit card or something, I think that may be an issue.  (That's off the top of my head.  I would have to verify.  But for some reason, that sticks out in my mind... someone feel free to correct me on that if needed...)  But, if someone just wants to pay them out of the goodness of their heart, and not ask to be paid back... I don't see what the issue would be.

[FW]

That's interesting.   A member may donate money to the squadron for paying bills like electric/phone etc.  However, a record needs to be kept at wing of the donations as it is the wing/cc's responsibility to send out the donation letter.

The money does NOT have to go through the WBP.  Only copies of the paid bills/cancelled checks need to be sent up as proof of donation.

BTW, it would be much easier for the squadron finance committee to vote the utilities as a "recurring expense".  The member can donate a set sum each month to WB "hedge fund" and the wing will pay the bill automatically.  There is no reason why your utilities were not paid.

[desertengineer1]

I'm with Tanker.  This isn't an IG issue, and if it is an open IG investigation, why are you discussing it here?

There's nothing in the regs (as i see it) preventing a member from donating in this manner as a function of facilities, directly to the unit.  I would guess this is reported in the Contributed Facilities statement at the end of each year, in the section "Contributed Utilities" as part of the facility package therein.  

[desertengineer1]

That's interesting.   A member may donate money to the squadron for paying bills like electric/phone etc.  However, a record needs to be kept at wing of the donations as it is the wing/cc's responsibility to send out the donation letter.

The money does NOT have to go through the WBP.  Only copies of the paid bills/cancelled checks need to be sent up as proof of donation.

BTW, it would be much easier for the squadron finance committee to vote the utilities as a "recurring expense".  The member can donate a set sum each month to WB "hedge fund" and the wing will pay the bill automatically.  There is no reason why your utilities were not paid.

Yep, that goes into the Unit's statement to Wing - to be reported accordingly.  I don't see where the problem is here - other than the IG issue.

[Eclipse]

As stated, IG's investigate complaints, and they only do it regarding complaints which have merit made by people with standing in the organization.  They are not the secret police of CAP.

With that said, there is no issue here.  If Joe member wants to pay the light bill, he sends a check with the
statement to the electric company and since there is no longer a bill, no request is ever made to the WBP and its the end of story.

Any tax issues are between the member and the IRS.  A tax adviser might tell him his canceled checks are enough, some might not.

Frankly, though, a better solution in terms of keeping things straight would be for the member to simply donate the amount to the unit, the unit gives him a "thank you" letter denoting the amount, and the bills are paid through normal WBP channels.

He could do it either per-month or as a lump sum.

As a side note, IG's do not define or create the program, they are entitled to their opinions like any other member, but if what a commander or unit is doing is within regs and any wing policies, whether an IG like s it or not irrelevant.

I don't know about others, but I am pretty tired of cracks being made about the WBP, especially those that insinuate malfeasance, I can tell you that in my state it is fully-functional and efficient.  The only units who have had issues are the ones with dysfunctional FM's or those who refuse to properly work the program.

[capchiro]

It is my understanding that said member may continue to pay utilities directly as a donation and not go through the WB.  The only things that need to go through the wing bank are funds donated directly to CAP and therefore accountable and squadron deposits of funds (dues, donations, etc.)  A person can pay an expense directly without seeking reimbursement from the wing bank, however, if they get audited by IRS, they may have more problems getting IRS to accept it as a donation if the check is made out to the utility company instead of CAP.

[ADCAPer]

The money does NOT have to go through the WBP.  Only copies of the paid bills/cancelled checks need to be sent up as proof of donation.

Welcome to "Wing Banking". As more than a few people tried to point out at the onset of this program, Units no longer have control of their funds, they are required to turn them over to the Wing and then "request" them back.

CAPR 173-4, 12 May 2008
8. Donation or Bequest of Money. A Donation Receipt is completed when money is donated or bequeathed to CAP. A Donation Receipt must be executed for all donations of $250 or more where no goods or services are provided to the donor and all donations of $75 or more where goods or services are provided to the donor. See Attachment 1, which may be reproduced locally. It is important that it is completely filled out and a copy retained in the corporate officer's file accepting the donation. Funds received by donation or bequest must be accounted for as required by CAPR 173-1, Financial Procedures and Accounting Report for Units Below Wing Level, and CAPR 173-2, Financial Procedures for CAP Regions and Wings. Units below wing level receiving donations or bequests in excess of $5,000 must notify their wing financial officer and NHQ CAP/FM within 30 days of receipt of the donation or bequest.

[Pumbaa]

Interesting.. I pay my Group and Squadron web hosting, as well as Domain name registration as my donation.  I do it direct.

[Major Carrales]

Unit's don't own the buildings they meet in...do they?  Thus, the building is a bit of a donation.  Thus, if a member pays for utilities in a building that the UNIT does not own, then why is it a matter for the IG or finance?

Please explain this more.

[Pylon]

Unit's don't own the buildings they meet in...do they?  Thus, the building is a bit of a donation.  Thus, if a member pays for utilities in a building that the UNIT does not own, then why is it a matter for the IG or finance?

Please explain this more.

Because there are indeed handfuls of Civil Air Patrol members at higher headquarters who enjoy complex administrivia, generated un-needed paperwork and requirements, unintuitive rules, and blindly adhering to the (often poorly written) letter of the law even if it directed you to walk off a cliff.

[FW]

The money does NOT have to go through the WBP.  Only copies of the paid bills/cancelled checks need to be sent up as proof of donation.

Welcome to "Wing Banking". As more than a few people tried to point out at the onset of this program, Units no longer have control of their funds, they are required to turn them over to the Wing and then "request" them back.

CAPR 173-4, 12 May 2008
8. Donation or Bequest of Money. A Donation Receipt is completed when money is donated or bequeathed to CAP. A Donation Receipt must be executed for all donations of $250 or more where no goods or services are provided to the donor and all donations of $75 or more where goods or services are provided to the donor. See Attachment 1, which may be reproduced locally. It is important that it is completely filled out and a copy retained in the corporate officer's file accepting the donation. Funds received by donation or bequest must be accounted for as required by CAPR 173-1, Financial Procedures and Accounting Report for Units Below Wing Level, and CAPR 173-2, Financial Procedures for CAP Regions and Wings. Units below wing level receiving donations or bequests in excess of $5,000 must notify their wing financial officer and NHQ CAP/FM within 30 days of receipt of the donation or bequest.

Any member may pay any bill for their unit; out of pocket.  The unit has full control of their funds; it is the wing's responsibility to administer them only.  The donation paragraph of CAPR 173-4  doesn't change these facts.  However, if a member wants to get a tax deduction for the donation, a record of the donation must go to wing/fm for recording, whether or not the money goes through WBP.  The important thing to remember is proper record keeping.  As I said, it is easier for the member to donate to the squadron and let the wing pay the bills through WBP.  The member will get a donation letter for total donation at end of year automatically.  However, this procedure is not a requirement.
BTW; CAP/FM has rewritten the finance regulations and combined CAPR 173-1 and 2.  It will be out for comments shortly.

[mikeylikey]

^ The WBP was the best thing to happen to FM in a very long time.  It saves on headaches and such.  At first I was against the program, but have grown fond of it.  Heck......reccuring bills are just as easy to pay through the program.  If there is a problem a quick 2 minute call to your Wings Finance Officer is all it takes.

However, if your request for payment to others (like rent) is not put in within a reasonable amount of time your payment will be late, and the only person to blame is yourself.  WBP is nothing more than taking time for prior planning.   

[IceNine]

First impression tells me there is more to this than meets the eye.  It is possible that the IG is meddling in things outside their scope, but it is highly unlikely.  While the degree of experience of wing level IG's varies widely I find it hard to believe that an IG at any level would open an investigation on something of such trivial nature.

I think with the information given the correct answers have been posted.

[BlackKnight]

For convenience, I contract for the broadband internet subscription for my squadron HQ through my company.  I'm a consulting engineer so it's easier for me to arrange service and maintain equipment than for the squadron.  As described above, the squadron finance committee approves the monthly/annual expenditure and I send my corporate invoice directly to wing with no markup or service fees, with the original invoice from the ISP attached as backup documentation. 

I donate a LOT to CAP (as I'm sure most of us do).  Had I chosen to donate the internet service I probably would pay for it directly and never ask for a receipt. The total annual cost is less than $600, well below the IRS's radar for corporate charitable deductions.

It's interesting that flyguync's wing is claiming that transactions such as "donated utilities" must go through wing banking. They don't. There is no such regulation. I helped rewrite the Feb 07 editions of CAPR 173-1 and 173-2 to put protections in for the squadrons and to prevent wings from abusing the new system. What we are seeing now across the country is that wing staff don't bother to read the finance regs. They have control of the money, so they're doing whatever they d*mn well please and making up new policies and rules as they go to justify their actions.  Hopefully this new rewrite of CAPR 173-1 and 173-2 will include the phrasing that was rejected in in the Feb07 edition: That wings are "may not issue supplements or revisions to these regulations without prior written NHQ approval."    The question everyone seems to have forgotten is where is all this promised new donated funding that CAP was going to be eligible for after producing the holy grail of the "unqualified audit report" that the WBP was supposedly needed to achieve?   The fact is that CAP reported an unqualified audit in it's 2006 annual report, long before the WBP was implemented nationwide.  Fooled us again, I see.

[desertengineer1]

As I posted earlier, nothing forbids a member from paying for something like utilities or a building.  It just needs to be recorded accordingly (Contributed Facilities). 

REIMBURSEMENT is a different story, and is obviously where WBP comes in.

I was just a meager unit finance officer, but this doesn't look like a complicated issue.

Why do some people make this stuff out to be 10 times harder than it is? (Reference the previous "open books" discussion)

The money does NOT have to go through the WBP.  Only copies of the paid bills/cancelled checks need to be sent up as proof of donation.

Welcome to "Wing Banking". As more than a few people tried to point out at the onset of this program, Units no longer have control of their funds, they are required to turn them over to the Wing and then "request" them back.

CAPR 173-4, 12 May 2008
8. Donation or Bequest of Money. A Donation Receipt is completed when money is donated or bequeathed to CAP. A Donation Receipt must be executed for all donations of $250 or more where no goods or services are provided to the donor and all donations of $75 or more where goods or services are provided to the donor. See Attachment 1, which may be reproduced locally. It is important that it is completely filled out and a copy retained in the corporate officer's file accepting the donation. Funds received by donation or bequest must be accounted for as required by CAPR 173-1, Financial Procedures and Accounting Report for Units Below Wing Level, and CAPR 173-2, Financial Procedures for CAP Regions and Wings. Units below wing level receiving donations or bequests in excess of $5,000 must notify their wing financial officer and NHQ CAP/FM within 30 days of receipt of the donation or bequest.

[FW]

The question everyone seems to have forgotten is where is all this promised new donated funding that CAP was going to be eligible for after producing the holy grail of the "unqualified audit report" that the WBP was supposedly needed to achieve?   The fact is that CAP reported an unqualified audit in it's 2006 annual report, long before the WBP was implemented nationwide.  Fooled us again, I see.

Unfortunately, CAP has not received an unqualified audit yet.  However, NHQ has received one since 2006.  I'm pretty sure we will be "producing the holy grail" with the 2008 audit.     :clap:  

Once we have the "holy grail" in hand, we can start concentrating  more on getting the wing staffs to understand the system better;  starting with changing the responsibility of the region/fm.  In the meantime,  the WFA's help insure the WBP is not being misused used by anyone.  And, to date, not one official complaint has been made concerning any wing abusing the system to me or the CAP/FM staff.

[ADCAPer]

Unfortunately, CAP has not received an unqualified audit yet.  However, NHQ has received one since 2006.  I'm pretty sure we will be "producing the holy grail" with the 2008 audit.     :clap:  

2006 Civil Air Patrol annual report to Congress – located at:  http://www.cap.gov/documents/2006_CAP_Annual_Report_To_Congress_lorespdf.pdf   

Page 40

Additionally, I am pleased to report CAP has continued to advance in fiscal accountability. For the first time since reorganization of Civil Air Patrol in 1995, outside auditors assessed an "unqualified" audit rating for CAP's annual financial statement in summer 2006.

Signed by Col. Russell D. Hodgkins Jr.