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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: CAPR 52-16 DRAFT Available for Comment
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MIKE
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« on: November 10, 2005, 11:31:37 PM »

CAPR 52-16 CADET PROGRAM MANAGEMENT DRAFT
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Mike Johnston
Chris Jacobs
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2005, 01:09:05 AM »

I got an e-mail today that contained a summery of the proposed changes to CAPR 52-16 today.  i am not sure if i like every thing that has changed.  it seems to be making the program a lot easier for people to get through.  i am not saying that we should have it extremely hard but there is some pride in knowing that you had to really work to get something.  what does every one else think about the summery of changes below.



General Policy

-Mission Statement: Revision the mission statement of the Cadet Program to read "To develop young people into responsible citizens and aerospace leaders." It would summarize the Cadet Program's reason for being.
-Training Leaders of Cadets: Define the goals and scope of the TLC program. Even though its an optional program, it would specify that TLC be conducted at group level or higher, and directed by a senior member with a master rating in the Cadet Programs.
-Safety on Obstacle Courses: It would require activity directors to conduct a walk-through and safety briefing before cadets participate in obstacle or  confidence courses.
-Naming Phase III & IV Achievements after Aero space Pioneers. Since there is no need for achievements be named after staff positions, it would promote knowledge of aerospace heritage as it did in Phase I & II achievements.


Cadet Promotions

-Separation Between Achievements and Milestones: It would eliminate minimum time between phases, and adopt 60-days separation for every promotion.
-Challenge Option: It would allow cadets over 16 years of age to complete achievements every 30-days up to the Mitchell Award.
-Milestone Exams: At every milestone exam, cadets will b e tested on what they learn in the preceding phase, except the Spaatz Award is over all 15 achievements.
-Leadership Expectations: Defines what leadership skills cadets should be demonstrating in each of the phases in the Cadet Program. This provides basis for commanders to use to promote cadets or in promotion boards. CAPF 50s will be altered for each phase, allowing commanders to focus on the expectations and provide meaningful feedback.


Leadership Element

-Staff Du ty Analysis: Eliminated; no longer required for cadet officers


Aerospace Education Element

-Aerospace Education at Achievement 1: Integrate aerospace education into Achievement 1 through a simple hands-on activity. No written test.
-Aerospace Outreach: Tap the cadets' aerospace knowledge and leadership skills to provide aerospace education to the public. Since cadets make excellent advocates for aerospace, this proposal would have Wright Brothers, Earhart, and Eaker cadets involved in some type of aerospace outreach activity.
-Aerospace Career Explorations: Integrate aerospace career explorations into the aeros pace education element. This would have cadets perform different "AE Careers" tasks for achievements 8, 11, and 16.


Physical Fitness Element

-Cadet Physical Fitness Test: Incorporate into the regulation the "run plus two out of three" scoring rule approved by the NEC in November 2004 and ordered by the National Commander on 18 Feb 2005.
-Physical Fitness in Achievement 1: Require cadets to attempt the CPFT in Achievement 1, but not require them to meet any performance standards. This will give the new cadets the basic introduction/orientation into the CPFT.


Character Development Element

-Character Development: Change the program element known as "moral leadership" to "character development."
-Character Development in Achievement 1: Require new cadets to participate in an introduction to the Core Values during Achievement 1.
-Frequency of Character Development Forums: Require cadets to complete just one character development forum per achievement. The required participation of one-half of the forums offered since last achievement completed will be eliminated.
-Discussion Leader & Recorder Requirements: Remove the discussion leader and recorder requirements from the character development forums.



The drafted CAPR 52-16 2006 and "A summary of and rationale forthe policy changes proposed in CAPR 52-16, Cadet Program Management" can be found at http://www.cap.gov/cadets and click on Cadet Programs Updates.
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C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron
MIKE
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2005, 03:57:30 AM »

Already got a topic for the actual draft of the regulation.  Check it out here.
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Mike Johnston
Chris Jacobs
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2005, 04:36:45 AM »

this is just all of the changes taken out and writen out in plain english.
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C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron
Pylon
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Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2005, 01:38:11 PM »

I'm appending this thread to the other one on the same subject matter.  :)
 
Carry on.
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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
Concord Composite Squadron, NH       
BillB
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2005, 10:12:06 PM »

I was totally opposed to the Challenge Option when I first read it, but after consideration It's not a bad idea. It allows teenagers who join after the 12-14 year age group to catch up with their own peer group.So I think the concept has value.
My problem with the draft of 52-16 is the CAC. At all levels it's the Commander that APPOINTS the CAC rep. The original idea for the CAC was to give cadets a voice in CAP, offer suggestions for change, and follow their own command line. ( I know this since in the 1950's I was one of 4 ex-cadets that wrote the original CAC reg.) By allows Commanders to appoint the CAC rep rather than have the cadets elect them, reduces the effectiveness of the CAC. It basically eliminates the alternate chain of command. If a Squadron has a poor commander, there is no way to carry this information up the chain of command if that poor commander can pick a weak CAC rep. CAC Reps should be elected from the Squadron to Group CAC, Group CAC should elect the Wing CAC officers, etc.
Otherwise it's not a Cadet Advisory Council, only an arm of the commander. and a roadblock to communications up the chain.
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104
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Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2005, 11:28:54 PM »

At least the membership is being more vocal and producing feedback about these revisions.
 
At the NER Conference, the Region DCP held a CP seminar in which a number of Senior members expressed their concerns, etc. which he was relaying up to NHQ and Curt Lafond.
 
In addition, in my Group, I am hosting a Group-wide discussion forum and encouraging all cadets and seniors to attend.  We'll be distributing the change summaries, explaining the proposed alterations to the cadet program, and recording everyone's feedback and forwarding it up the chain of command.
 
Everybody, especially all cadets, have a vested interest in giving their opinions on these proposals.  Nothing is written in stone yet, but we can't only complain to each other and then expect the proposals to alter accordingly.  We must pass our sentiments up the chain of command, so that the National CAP personnel receive our input.  Without our feedback, they can only assume what we want. :)
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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
Concord Composite Squadron, NH       
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2005, 03:13:23 AM »

i am not sure if i like every thing that has changed.  it seems to be making the program a lot easier for people to get through.

Try to look at the positive side.  It is generally the practice to write documentation meant for vast audiences and age ranges to be on a 5th grade reading level.   This then allows for those with mild learning disabilities to participate.  There are many people, who while very intelligent have some form of learning disability, myself included.

Remember Civil Air Patrol should attempt to make such allowances for everyone.  This may help in the long run to improve membership numbers.
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Julie Anne
Major, CAP ~ Commander
Milwaukee Comp Sqdn 5 (WI-061)
Chris Jacobs
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2005, 04:21:23 PM »

I also have a learning disability.  basically i can't write very well and am awful at spelling (i have test scores issued by my school service to back up my disability).  so i take manners into my own hands and take advanced writing classes.  by pushing myself further and harder then i would have normally been pushed i have surpassed most of my peers and am now an average or above average writer.  if you really want something and push your self you can achieve great things.  but if you say that you have a problem and just give up you will go now where in life. 

i can understand trying to accommodate people and make them feel welcome and i like the idea, just don't take it too far.  when i became a cadet no one in the squadron lowered their expectations to meet that of a 12 year old.  this was great for me because now at 16 years old i have my solo wings, I am my squadrons C/CC, and have done so many other things i can't list them all.  this is all because no one lowered the standard for me but instead i raised up to the occasion.  I under stand that we need to make some accommodations for people but we will send all of our older cadets packing if we lower are expectations to a 5th grade level.
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C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron
arajca
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2005, 04:33:51 PM »

Remember Civil Air Patrol should attempt to make such allowances for everyone.  This may help in the long run to improve membership numbers.
But what will it do for the quality of the members?
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WICAPMOM
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2005, 06:02:24 PM »

Remember Civil Air Patrol should attempt to make such allowances for everyone.  This may help in the long run to improve membership numbers.
But what will it do for the quality of the members?

You would be surprised.

As I said I am learning disabled.

This does not mean that I am not intelligent.  Quite the opposite, for one thing I graduated college second in my class with a 3.95.

It just takes more time to get information into my head, once it is there it really sticks.

Don't judge the kids you go to school with because they may be in the "LD" class.

Teaching someone who is learning disabled can be a rewarding experience and should help the instructor to learn many very valuable things.  Most of all is patience, which seems to be lacking from a lot of people now a days.

The learning disabled people that I know are very dedicated to the things they enjoy. 

Abraham Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Walt Disney, Edison, Albert Einstein, Alexander Graham Bell, General George Patton, George Washington, Woodrow Wilson were all learning disabled.

So you tell me, what could this mean?
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Julie Anne
Major, CAP ~ Commander
Milwaukee Comp Sqdn 5 (WI-061)
BillB
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2005, 12:56:33 AM »

I agree cadets with learning disabilities require patience. When I held state teaching certification, I was often called on to teach in a Special Education class, students with physical and learning disabilities. I always found that with a little help, they could do as well as mainstream students, often better.
However, the point here is lowering the standard of material for younger cadets. I would like to see CAP members go to eBay and bid on CIVIL AIR PATROL MANUAL Vol 1, book 1 and Vol 1 book 2, to see how much more was included in both aerospace education and military leadership. That manual came out in 1949, and was designed for cadet, mainly 16-21 years of age. Younger cadets had a harder time, but they also learned the more advanced material. Where the current aerospace manuals barely go into the material, the older manuals provided a better understanding. And ever since those 12949 manuals, the cadet program has been made simpler and simpler. Instead of being designed to produce cadets with a thorough background in aviation, aerospace and military subjects, it only allows a basic understanding of the material.
CAPR 52-16 and the older CAPR 50-16 was written by educators and designed for younger cadets. This is one of the reasons CAP keeps losing the more experienced, older cadets. They get bored. And when was the last time National came up with a regulation on the cadet program that they asked for comment from the National CAC, or even the cadet membership at large?
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2005, 01:13:19 AM »

Remember Civil Air Patrol should attempt to make such allowances for everyone.  This may help in the long run to improve membership numbers.
But what will it do for the quality of the members?

You would be surprised.

As I said I am learning disabled.

This does not mean that I am not intelligent.  Quite the opposite, for one thing I graduated college second in my class with a 3.95.

It just takes more time to get information into my head, once it is there it really sticks.

Don't judge the kids you go to school with because they may be in the "LD" class.

Teaching someone who is learning disabled can be a rewarding experience and should help the instructor to learn many very valuable things.  Most of all is patience, which seems to be lacking from a lot of people now a days.

The learning disabled people that I know are very dedicated to the things they enjoy. 

Abraham Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Walt Disney, Edison, Albert Einstein, Alexander Graham Bell, General George Patton, George Washington, Woodrow Wilson were all learning disabled.

So you tell me, what could this mean?

What would it do for membership?

Well to give you an idea, I was a drill team commander last year and four of the sixteen members had learning disablities. That is one fourth of a wing drill team - you can decide if we should try to accomidate for them or not.
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There are three kinds of people in this world...people that get things, people that watch others get things done, and people that wonder what just happened...WHICH ONE ARE YOU?
Matt
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North Central Region
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2005, 02:03:49 AM »

Wow, that's a decent ratio.  Especially since they really didn't show much of an LD... it's a wonder what a little patience, persistance, and willingness do.
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Matthew Kopp, Maj, CAP
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North Central Region
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2005, 10:05:27 PM »

It just seems to be the way of things lately.
We seldom ever raise the bar, we just continue to lower it.
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2LT Christopher M. Parrett
Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona
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South East Wisconsin Group
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2005, 09:18:55 PM »

It is not lowering any bars.

This is allowing for more people to participate at levels appropriate for them.  Which has been denied in a lot of organizations for a long time.

The "bar" as you put it should continually be set by yourself.  Starting at what ever level of which you are able and then pushing yourself to work to your best potential.

If you want your cadets to achieve a higher "bar" then show them the way. Offer them more.  You are not limited to teach only from the books that CAP provides.  In fact CAP encourgages members to expand in all educational areas.  Especially Aerospace Education.

When did everyone get limiting in their views of the outside world.

Look out side the box and allow for modification for any individual preference.
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Julie Anne
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2005, 09:23:41 PM »

I suppose as a Cadet myself in 1979 I will always compare the current requirements to those of my cadethood. And based on that, the "bar" has been lowered quite a bit. Much less is asked and required of cadets now than it was then.

But you are 100% correct, that because of this far more people can participate.
When we use the lowest common denominator model it always increases volume, but not always quality.
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2LT Christopher M. Parrett
Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona
WICAPMOM
Recruit

Posts: 45

South East Wisconsin Group
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2005, 10:18:42 PM »

I suppose as a Cadet myself in 1979 I will always compare the current requirements to those of my cadethood. And based on that, the "bar" has been lowered quite a bit. Much less is asked and required of cadets now than it was then.

But you are 100% correct, that because of this far more people can participate.
When we use the lowest common denominator model it always increases volume, but not always quality.
I am really becoming very offended with the “quality” remark.

Regardless of what they do the program we will always get some less than intelligent individuals in to the organization.  That will be true where ever we go in the world.  We will all just have to learn to deal with it as a sad fact of life.

Try to look on the hopeful side we really could get some HIGH QUALITY people, who just need help to realize their potential.  Hopefully we have enough patient members who will be around to help.

I am severely dyslexic.   This was not diagnosed until later in my life.  I require a different means by which I have to assimilate the information.  One of the only reasons I made it through the cadet program was that my learning disability teacher used my interest in Civil Air Patrol to get me to understand my disability.  Then, when I understood what I had to do differently, I became able to push myself and set that bar higher.  It still takes me longer than most to learn things, but that is something I will have to live with.

I believe that the cadets I know with learning disabilities are of the HIGHEST QUALITY.  They may not make it through the cadet ranks as fast as what we may like. But they do work harder, seem to be less arrogant, more willing to pass on what they have learned, are more tolerant of others, and are very dependable.  They have also brought there friends into the organization.  Plus it seems to me that retain their membership into the senior ranks.

You have more learning disabled people around you than you know.

Abraham Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Walt Disney, Edison, Albert Einstein, Alexander Graham Bell, General George Patton, George Washington, Woodrow Wilson were all learning disabled.
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Julie Anne
Major, CAP ~ Commander
Milwaukee Comp Sqdn 5 (WI-061)
BillB
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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2005, 10:21:50 PM »

Has anyone noticed a change that National doesn't say is a change? Look up the CAC section and you will find that all CAC representatives at all levels are APPOINTED. No longer are they ELECTED by cadets at that level.
The entire concept of the CAC was to provide cadets an avenue to bring suggestions and report local problems to higher levels (Group or Wing usually) This is taken away if commanders appoint. For example, the Commander of the Mickey Mouse Cadet Squadron, appoints his son/daughter as the Squadron representative. Do you think Group or Wing will hear of any problems in the Mickey Mouse cadet Squadron?
I was one of three seniors (all former cadets that drew up the original regulation for CAC back in the 1950's. The CAC had it's own chain of command to bring up issues and suggestions OUTSIDE of senior control. With commanders appointing their favorite cadets as CAC representatives, this chian in broken.
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104
arajca
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« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2005, 11:22:03 PM »

I never knew CAC reps were elected. Usually, the cadet who volunteered/voluntold for the job got it. The only CAC reps that I thought were elected were those who represented lower CAC's to higher CAC's, i.e. group to wing.
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: CAPR 52-16 DRAFT Available for Comment
 


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