New USAF Service Coat

[AlphaSigOU]

According to AF Times, all work on the new AF heritage coat has been put on the backburner in favor of fixing issues with various combat and work-related uniforms.

The 'heritage' service dress jacket was the baby of the previous AF chief of staff, Gen Moseley. As soon as he retired it was quietly shelved.

[USADOD]

I know this isn't total news, but the Air Force had last year made a decision on the new service coat. Does anyone know details of the wear test or is it already being phased in?

Today on www.af.mil I noticed the article on USAFE change of command and in the photo, the incoming CC, General Brady, is wearing just that uniform. Looks odd... don't know if I like it after all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and it may be different in the Army D&C FM than the USAF(doubt it) but the General salute looks a little off . But a little company grade officer like me wont tell him hes wrong.

[AlphaSigOU]

I know this isn't total news, but the Air Force had last year made a decision on the new service coat. Does anyone know details of the wear test or is it already being phased in?

Today on www.af.mil I noticed the article on USAFE change of command and in the photo, the incoming CC, General Brady, is wearing just that uniform. Looks odd... don't know if I like it after all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and it may be different in the Army D&C FM than the USAF(doubt it) but the General salute looks a little off . But a little company grade officer like me wont tell him hes wrong.

Not if you value your life or your career... 

By tradition, general and flag officers are entitled to wear uniforms of their own design; most will wear standard issue uniforms but many do become wear-testers for proposed uniform concepts. Popular among Air Force general officers is a blue jacket similar in design to the old MA-1 flight jacket. Of course, stars, name and 'universal management badge' (read: rated aircrew wings) are included.

[MSgt Van]

But a little company grade officer like me wont tell him hes wrong.

Keep in mind you're not a company grade officer...
(unless you're an officer in the military, then I stand corrected)

[JohnKachenmeister]

But a little company grade officer like me wont tell him hes wrong.

Keep in mind you're not a company grade officer...
(unless you're an officer in the military, then I stand corrected)

You are right.

Chuck is a SQUADRON grade officer.  Company grade officers are in the Army and Marines.

[tarheel gumby]

As an answer to the call for a single service uniform combination,including a dress uniform, that would be Heritage Uniform -why don't we just go back the the AAC "pinks"? They look good, and are what we originaly wore.

[Spike]

...why don't we just go back the the AAC "pinks"? They look good, and are what we originally wore.

You mean going back into an Army Uniform??  Wow....look out for some heated responses from those that hate everything army!

[Hawk200]

...why don't we just go back the the AAC "pinks"? They look good, and are what we originally wore.

You mean going back into an Army Uniform??  Wow....look out for some heated responses from those that hate everything army!

I'd like to know who it is here "that hates everything army!". There are a number of active duty and citizen soldiers on this board, myself included. As for those that aren't, I don't think anyone has any issues with Army folks.

[tarheel gumby]

...why don't we just go back the the AAC "pinks"? They look good, and are what we originally wore.

You mean going back into an Army Uniform??  Wow....look out for some heated responses from those that hate everything army!

Why would anybody hate the Army? Former NC ARNG myself (95 B)
Sure why not seems that we have alot of people that seem to want to distance us from the AF

[Spike]

^  Looking through previous posts from many, I get a sense that there are those that dislike the "military" side of CAP, and those that do dislike Army references even more. 

[SAR-EMT1]

As an answer to the call for a single service uniform combination,including a dress uniform, that would be Heritage Uniform -why don't we just go back the the AAC "pinks"? They look good, and are what we originaly wore.

Hehe... the Pinks and Greens also had a cape that was part of the Mess Dress Ensemble.
Can you imagine what that would look like....
hmm... that actually might look pretty [darn] good.

Hawk,  Kach... you are both retired Army.... any experience with this outfit?

[USADOD]

   Oops

[Hawk200]

As an answer to the call for a single service uniform combination,including a dress uniform, that would be Heritage Uniform -why don't we just go back the the AAC "pinks"? They look good, and are what we originaly wore.

Hehe... the Pinks and Greens also had a cape that was part of the Mess Dress Ensemble.
Can you imagine what that would look like....
hmm... that actually might look pretty [darn] good.

Hawk,  Kach... you are both retired Army.... any experience with this outfit?

{Whippersnappers...}

For starters, not retired, still currently serving (I'm at 20+ years presently). On my way back from Iraq right now.

Second, no experience, and don't recall reading about it in some of my historical studies. Kach might be able to tell you. (Couldn't resist Kach)

[JohnKachenmeister]

The last Army officer named Kachenmeister to wear pinks and greens was 1st Lt. Richard L. Kachenmeister, my father.  He was a bombardier on B-29's, and remained in the National Guard after the end of World War II.  When the Air Force broke out of the Army he was faced with the decision to either drive for more than 100 miles to a base that had bombers, or remain in the Army and branch-transfer to the infantry.

He chose option 2, and soon came to reget his decision.  He learned what the infantry is about at the Infantry School at Ft. Benning.

When the child destined to become Major John Richard Kachenmeister was born, he used the issue of dependency to petition for a discharge.  It was granted in December of 1949.

The next year, 1950, saw the beginning of the Korean War, and his unit was mobilized and went to war without him.

But, although I never wore the pinks and greens, I am pretty sure there was no cape worn with that uniform.  The cape was worn only with the Army Dress Blue uniform.

[BillB]

Kach is correct, there was no cape with the pinks and green uniform. There was a cape with the formal mess dress uniform. As far as I can remember reading, I don't see where pinks and green was worn by any other than the Army Air Corp/Army Air Force. Ground pounders wore other variations of the uniform. AAF and CAP did wear pink and greens during the 1944-45 period and possibly up to 1947 when the Army Air Force split into seperate branch.

[Smithsonia]

before the pinks and greens the Army Air Corps Class A uniform was an American copy of the British Cavalry Uniform. The Air Corps wore jodhpurs (bloused trouser) Sam Brown sword belts, tunic collars, knee high boots... that was the standard class A until Pinks and Greens (and never worn by CAP by the way) The Pinks and Greens were rakish and quite fashionable.

Why I bring it to your attention is - It gives you a true look at the beginnings of military flight. All pilots were signal corps - cavalry assigned. All pilots were messengers (at least in the beginning) This uniform tells the story in a most succinct way. Although the Billy Mitchell was 1925, this cavalry uniform persisted until 1939.

[Hawk200]

Kach is correct, there was no cape with the pinks and green uniform. There was a cape with the formal mess dress uniform. As far as I can remember reading, I don't see where pinks and green was worn by any other than the Army Air Corp/Army Air Force. Ground pounders wore other variations of the uniform. AAF and CAP did wear pink and greens during the 1944-45 period and possibly up to 1947 when the Army Air Force split into seperate branch.

Based on some of my studies, pinks and greens were worn by the Air Force up until about '49. Insignia from both sides were worn on either uniform, and the hodge podge could be as bad as CAP is now. Air Force insignia worn on Army uniforms, Army insignia on some of the Air Force transition uniforms. A real mess.

Unfortunately, we don't have the "seasoned" members still around that remembers those days.

[Smithsonia]

Here's Curtis LeMay in his 1948 Strategic Air Command Uniform. Uniform was called
straight blue, aka "True Blue":
http://www.strategic-air-command.com/people/images/lemay-01.jpg
AND here he is with his end of WW2 uniform. Notice dark tie and jacket match.
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/020903-o-9999b-105.jpg
This gives you a pretty clear view of the changes between 1945 and '48.
Here's a picture from 12 O'Clock High. Dean Jagger on the left is in dark shirt
tan tie. Gregory Peck on right is in Pinks, Greens, with tan tie and shirt combination.
http://robie2008.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/12.jpg

I imagine that there was a bit of cross over between the Pinks and Greens and the clean AF Blues. As in a phase out period. For instance, the Air Corps actively suppressed the dark shirts
with the Pink and Greens after 1943. If you were stationed in Britain you ignored that suppression -- if you were in the Pacific, you wore the tan on tan shirt combination or
wore a complete set of suntans all year round, provided you were in the tropics. Therefore, suntans with sunglasses (Pacific theater being the only active war after Germany was defeated) became the cool uniform to wear in '45- '46.

However, the Air Corps was fazing out the Pink and Greens as soon as WW2 (Europe) was over.
The Air Corps decided they didn't like the 3 tones of the Pinks and Greens/ dark shirt combination. They went to the cleaner one tone or 2 tone uniform... the clean dress blues Air Force circa 1948 -- was considered a one tone uniform.

[Spike]

Here is the real history folks!

http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/PopTopics/uniform.htm

http://www.af.mil/news/story_media.asp?id=123147531

http://www.spangdahlem.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123114141

PLUS if you search this forum, you will find a vast array of AF uniform history links. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

Or...

Go to Blockbuster tonight and rent:

1.  The Big Lift

2.  Jet Pilot