National Commander Suspended

[lordmonar]

The thing is that the CAP press release is so disengeous...they've obviously been investigating these charges for months but only now are suspending him, but they act like the charge just came up. 

Its like if a cop shot somebody and the department left him on patrol for 3 months before putting him on desk duty so they could investigate the shooting to make sure it was justified.

Frankly, while I've been willing to give the Nat Cdr the benefit of the doubt if its got to thie point where obviously some sort of preliminary evaluation as to the merits of the charge have been made, for the good of the organization he should have stepped aside before being suspended.

The gears of the system may be slow...but they are moving....instead of sniping at the system, for being bent, broken or subverted....and be happy that it at least is working.

I still give the National Commander the benefit of the doubt.  When the investigation is complete and the NB takes its final action....then we will know.   

Now if we can just keep the NHQ computers from sending him a renewal notice.....all would be good. 

[SJFedor]

I find it kind of wierd that they've said that he may "not have contact with any CAP member" That's kind of beyond what the BoG can enforce, isn't it?

I can understand that he cannot have contact with CAP members in an official capacity, but to say he can't go play a round of golf with a friend who also happens to be Joe Q. Member from some unit, makes it sound like they're overstepping their boundaries, especially considering this, yet again, is a volunteer organization.

Perhaps the press release and letter were worded a bit misleadingly, but that really caught my attention.

So now, we all wait....

[SAR-EMT1]

What action is Congress and the Air Force specifically those at Air University liable to take now?

Are we in danger of having our grey epulets replaced with Maroon or is AFIADL likely to remove our priviledge to enroll in its courses?

The overall effects have me a bit worried. 

[AlphaSigOU]

What action is Congress and the Air Force specifically those at Air University liable to take now?

Are we in danger of having our grey epulets replaced with Maroon or is AFIADL likely to remove our priviledge to enroll in its courses?

The overall effects have me a bit worried. 

That's gonna suck the big one... I just enrolled in SOS.

[Mustang]

What action is Congress and the Air Force specifically those at Air University liable to take now?

Are we in danger of having our grey epulets replaced with Maroon or is AFIADL likely to remove our priviledge to enroll in its courses?

They've already responded to the matter by issuing a policy requiring CAP members to take exams for AF PME courses on-base or under the watchful eye of a CAP-USAF'er.  End of story.

As for the timing of the suspension, you'll note that there's a whole separate reg on dealing with removal of a national commander or vice commander than for a rank and file member; where you or I would be suspended at the beginning of an investigation, the process for the top dogs is different, simply to permit the organization to function in the wake of frivolous claims.  The investigation itself is over; the BoG is now in the "what do we do about it?" phase, and clearly the findings in the IG investigation were substantive enough to cause them to suspend Pineda while they wrestle with that question.  I'm certain they didn't take the suspension lightly, and I'm sure they've been pondering the situation for some time, weighing the damage a for-cause removal would do versus letting Pineda run out the remainder of his term. 

(A note to NB'ers reading this:  there's no way the BoG is going to approve term extensions for National, Region or Wing commanders, so don't waste your--and our--time with the matter further.  PAWG/CC Applebaum, I'm talking to YOU.)

There is great pressure afoot for Pineda to now resign, rather than being forcefully removed from office. You'll note that the BoG suspended his MEMBERSHIP, not simply his position as CAP/CC, so what we're dealing with here are the membership termination proceedings of a national commander--that's how serious it is, and why the suspension can include a no-contact order; if he violates it, he's done.  I only hope the BoG is thorough in its examination of Pineda's wrongdoings and strips him, Dan Levitch and Eileen Parker of the Silver Medals of Valor they didn't earn but were awarded anyway.  If the BoG doesn't, the NEC ought to.

[Sgt. Savage]

Having had time to think about this, I am pleased. Not so much about the decision or the allegations but, Col Linker was our wing CC and a number of people, including "the nameless one" accused everyone, including the IG, of being corrupt. I never believed it and thankfully the system has proved that just being a wing staffer or higher doesn't mean your dirty.

[jimmydeanno]

If he isn't allowed to make contact with any member of CAP how does he appeal his decision...

"I'm sorry Mr. Pineda, you talked to the National IG, you're done..."  

[Nomex Maximus]

Question: Since the MG has been suspended from Membership, and is forbidden contact from any CAP member, could he come to CapTalk and post?  We are Cap Members, and posting is a form of contact.  I do not know for sure if he is even a member of this Forum.  Just curious.

OK guys, it is time to give up my secret.

*I* am Major General Tony Pineda.  I was just hiding behind the "Nomex Maximus" handle because I wanted to hang out with the rank and file members of CAP without them knowing who I was.

And just for the record, I think orange jumpsuits and BDUs for ground crews would be a GREAT idea.  When I get back from suspension I am going to work on that one.

--Tony

[isuhawkeye]

If you believe the discussions outlining the way the MG got people to resign he often threatened them with this type of suspension pending lengthy investigations.  Kind of Ironic...

[jimmydeanno]

Question: Since the MG has been suspended from Membership, and is forbidden contact from any CAP member, could he come to CapTalk and post?  We are Cap Members, and posting is a form of contact.  I do not know for sure if he is even a member of this Forum.  Just curious.

OK guys, it is time to give up my secret.

*I* am Major General Tony Pineda.  I was just hiding behind the "Nomex Maximus" handle because I wanted to hang out with the rank and file members of CAP without them knowing who I was.

And just for the record, I think orange jumpsuits and BDUs for ground crews would be a GREAT idea.  When I get back from suspension I am going to work on that one.

--Tony

Why not just issue the policy letter now and play catch up then...? 

[SARMedTech]

It would seem to me that the so-called "no-contact order" is really a pressure valve for the BoG. Should the MG have contact with any CAP member, which could be as simple as an email, and the BoG can prove it, or a member lets them know that he has contacted them, their work is done. Having violated the terms of his suspension, he would just be removed from office. Given that his suspension is for 6 months, the likelihood of some form of contact with some member seems pretty high. Having worked in the fields of employment and contract law, I can say that these sorts of conditions of suspension are fairly common. The question is really are they legal and that has been a matter of conjecture and debate among contract and employment lawyers and law makers for some time. The BoG is not a law enforcement body and therefore really does not have any legally binding authority to tell the MG who he can and cannot talk to. He may be under suspension, but his Constitutional rights still apply. Its only enforceable in that it is a term of his suspension. The only way it could be legally enforceable is if the BoG were to get some sort of restraining order or injunction against the MG barring him from contact with the entire CAP membership body. The only thing giving this thing some "legs" is that he is an appointee of a volunteer organization and not really an employee. I would be interested to see if its written into CAPs bylaws or constitution that a suspended individual shall be prohibited from contact with the membership. Even then...

[SeattleSarge]

What I find interesting are the differences in the original statement from Parker, the message to employees from Rowland, and the subsequent press release from National PA.

Far more information on the "why" of this is released to the press than in the original statement to members, and Rowland tells his folks basically not to discuss this with the "volunteers".

Isn't that special....

-SeattleSarge

[0]

What I find interesting are the differences in the original statement from Parker, the message to employees from Rowland, and the subsequent press release from National PA.

Far more information on the "why" of this is released to the press than in the original statement to members, and Rowland tells his folks basically not to discuss this with the "volunteers".

Isn't that special....

-SeattleSarge

Most likely because people in the orginization already knew of the alegations.  but when you release to the press they'll be chomping at the bit if you don't give them all that info.  they may have gone off with even more conspiracy theories than we were yesterday. 

[Major Lord]

It would seem to me that the so-called "no-contact order" is really a pressure valve for the BoG. Should the MG have contact with any CAP member, which could be as simple as an email, and the BoG can prove it, or a member lets them know that he has contacted them, their work is done. Having violated the terms of his suspension, he would just be removed from office. Given that his suspension is for 6 months, the likelihood of some form of contact with some member seems pretty high. Having worked in the fields of employment and contract law, I can say that these sorts of conditions of suspension are fairly common. The question is really are they legal and that has been a matter of conjecture and debate among contract and employment lawyers and law makers for some time. The BoG is not a law enforcement body and therefore really does not have any legally binding authority to tell the MG who he can and cannot talk to. He may be under suspension, but his Constitutional rights still apply. Its only enforceable in that it is a term of his suspension. The only way it could be legally enforceable is if the BoG were to get some sort of restraining order or injunction against the MG barring him from contact with the entire CAP membership body. The only thing giving this thing some "legs" is that he is an appointee of a volunteer organization and not really an employee. I would be interested to see if its written into CAPs bylaws or constitution that a suspended individual shall be prohibited from contact with the membership. Even then...

I think this type of no-contact order is prudent to minimize the possibility of unfair command influence over witnesses, members, etc. I have heard through CAP RUMINT that there have been allegations of coercive behavior by MG Pineda, and if this in any way an aspect of the IG inquiry, it would certainly be in his best interest not to compound it by violating the boards directive regarding contact. I really doubt that it is a pretext designed to trick him into self destruction. There are various forms of this directive in use in CAP already, IG personnel investigations, etc., and it does not seem unusual in any sense except in that it applies to the National Commander. As a Florida Law Enforcement Officer, Gen Pineda should have an understanding and appreciation of the need for a voluntary no-contact order in an internal investigation. Obviously it is voluntary, but he still has recourse outside the CAP systems, including petitioning a court for redress. CAP is a Corporation, and dreads a lawsuit as much as the next guy...even baseless allegations like racism, sexism, ageism, can cause any Corporation distress, and they will often cave in to avoid the stigma.

It is interesting to note that the suspension was delayed for so long. The IG report seems to have taken a very long time to submit to the BOG, and one has to wonder if the "vox populi" of CAP membership rank and file (clearly having mutinous and murderous thoughts) may have motivated the IG, and BOG to perhaps resist the temptation to quietly dispose of the allegations by lesser means. Involving the AF as a victim of test malfeasance is a weapon that once uncaged, is hard to recapture. Democracy strikes suddenly when injustice is in the wind...

The concept that the memos sent out by various echelons of command represent some conspiracy to manipulate the membership seems unlikely to me, but probably do represent an awareness that initial memos were insufficient to satiate CAP members feelings that the higher levels of CAP by their silence had been complicit.

I say let the investigation go where it may, but silence on the part of the organization will not be an acceptable outcome, regardless of the findings of the BOG.

MAJ Lord (formerly known as CAPT Lord)

[Sgt. Savage]

NERMA..... I get it!!

I'm not really slow but I was wondering "Why do they call you NERMA .

I just got it NER-MA-002....

I'm gonna be chuckling about that for the rest of the day.... NERMA!!

(falling out of chair, coffee funning out of nose, silent laughing...)

[SeattleSarge]

[Most likely because people in the orginization already knew of the alegations.  but when you release to the press they'll be chomping at the bit if you don't give them all that info.  they may have gone off with even more conspiracy theories than we were yesterday. 

That's my point...  Why not release all the information to the general membership and avoid all the conspiracy talk.  The only way to fight rumor is with facts.

It appears that three different offices are trying to deal with this without any coordination.  This is PAO/MIO 101 level stuff...

-SeattleSarge

[Pylon]

[Most likely because people in the orginization already knew of the alegations.  but when you release to the press they'll be chomping at the bit if you don't give them all that info.  they may have gone off with even more conspiracy theories than we were yesterday. 

That's my point...  Why not release all the information to the general membership and avoid all the conspiracy talk.  The only way to fight rumor is with facts.

It appears that three different offices are trying to deal with this without any coordination.  This is PAO/MIO 101 level stuff...

-SeattleSarge

As I said earlier, they were three different offices releasing three different memos for three different audiences.  And, the three different audiences probably do require different approaches in announcing and explaining the situation.

For example, the message from the Executive Director was written for paid employees.  Simply because you got a copy of it doesn't mean the memo was written for you.  It's not a mis-coordination of PR efforts.

[SeattleSarge]

As I said earlier, they were three different offices releasing three different memos for three different audiences.  And, the three different audiences probably do require different approaches in announcing and explaining the situation.

For example, the message from the Executive Director was written for paid employees.  Simply because you got a copy of it doesn't mean the memo was written for you.  It's not a mis-coordination of PR efforts.

I understand the differences in audiences, but the facts of this situation are universal.

All I'm saying is that the rank and file should have received a complete picture of the situation to prevent wild speculation.

I will disagree regarding PR mis-coordination.

-SeattleSarge

[Cecil DP]

An investigation is classified and considered confidential until it's completed and even then only the basic facts are released. This investigation has gone on for some time and  the fact that MG Pineda has been suspended from office was released is because they had to to let everyone know that Pineda couldn't participate in CAP. This thing is still going on, and won't be settled for a while.

Mike McEleney 

[ddelaney103]

An investigation is classified and considered confidential until it's completed and even then only the basic facts are released. This investigation has gone on for some time and  the fact that MG Pineda has been suspended from office was released is because they had to to let everyone know that Pineda couldn't participate in CAP. This thing is still going on, and won't be settled for a while.

Mike McEleney 

No, it's Privacy Act info at best - the only way you classify an IG investigation is if the subject is classified.  Unless TP was burning intel sources for Osama it's unlikely the disclosure will cause "damage to national security."