July 05, 2020, 08:15:30 am

PD Aggravation

Started by murphey, May 13, 2020, 08:44:24 pm

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

murphey

May 13, 2020, 08:44:24 pm Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 08:55:01 pm by murphey
I'm in a Senior squadron that admits its almost exclusively an Emergency flying squadron. Last December I attended a CLC course. It still doesn't appear in eServices. Emailed the PD Officer, no response. It's the only item I need to advance to Level III. Any suggestions? Going outside/over/around the chain of command doesn't bother me in the least. Altho I officially belong to the squadron, I spend most of my efforts at the Region level.

thanks

Eclipse

Contact the director of the CLC and ask if the Form 11 was send to NHQ and
if others have received credit.  It possible instead of going to NHQ it was sent / kept
at Wing and never processed.

It might also have had an incorrect CAPID for you.

Your Unit PDO isn't going to be able to do anything about this other then ask which
just adds another link in the telephone game.



murphey

Unfortunately, the director of the CLC is the PD officer. I'm about to contact the wing PD but wanted to give the squadron PD a chance to deal with it.

etodd

Emailed more than once? Make sure you email to the actual email address he uses and checks. Wing IT folks have a tendency to try and keep giving us email addresses for every job we have (gave me three so far), and I keep telling them I only check and use one.

My advice, pick up the phone and talk with him. Get him to tell you the next step.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

Quote from: murphey on May 13, 2020, 08:56:13 pmUnfortunately, the director of the CLC is the PD officer. I'm about to contact the wing PD but wanted to give the squadron PD a chance to deal with it.

I'd guess that is the issue - the F11 needs to be signed by the Wing CC,
either the Wing PDO never got it, or it died on that desk.

I'd just contact the Wing staffer, if you don't get an answer in a reasonable time,
contact the COS. The form should have been sent up within a day or two of the class,
if not the same day, with credit posted by the end of that week. 5+ months is unacceptable.



TheSkyHornet

Unfortunately, this is not uncommon. I've come across this with a number of individuals.

I'm a stickler for checking this stuff on my own profile. If I attend a PD course, I'm checking daily for two weeks to see when it gets added. If it doesn't get up there within a reasonable time, I'm contact the Course Director. If I don't get a response back within a responsible time, I'm sending another email, and I'm copying in Wing PD and the Chief of Staff.

If you attended the course, you deserve credit. It's that simple.


Holding Pattern

Step 1. Your Squadron Commander. Give him a month to fix it.
Step 2. Your group or wing commander.
Step 3. IG.

CAP9907

Quote from: Holding Pattern on May 13, 2020, 10:12:07 pmStep 1. Your Squadron Commander. Give him a month to fix it.
Step 2. Your group or wing commander.
Step 3. IG.

IG?? Whatever for?

~9907
21 yrs of service

Our Members Code of Conduct can be found here:   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=13.0

Eclipse

Seriously, there's no grounds for a complaint here, and there's no
reason to wait another month for the CC (they've all had 5).

Just call the Wing PDO and move on, ultimately it's his literal job.



PHall

Quote from: etodd on May 13, 2020, 09:14:56 pmEmailed more than once? Make sure you email to the actual email address he uses and checks. Wing IT folks have a tendency to try and keep giving us email addresses for every job we have (gave me three so far), and I keep telling them I only check and use one.

Have the two you don't normally check automatically forward to the one you do check.
If you don't know how to do it your Wing IT folks should be able to help you.

Eclipse

Office-specific email addresses should be alias', not full mailboxes.

Tell your IT people to makes the changes instead of just not checking them.



Phil Hirons, Jr.

Murphey, did you take SLS close in time to CLC?

I used to be Wing PD and I saw several times where NHQ did not post CLC because the CLC F11 was in the pile before the SLS one and they started enforcing that you had to have SLS credit to get CLC credit. So when they processed the CLC you did not have the pre-req and when they got to SLS the CLC form was a done deal.

In other words everyone could have done everything correctly and it did not sequence correctly. Having the Wing PD  re-submit the CLC F11 with a note will generally get it fixed.

Eclipse

Another issue is if you have no specialty tracks assigned you can't get credit for either SLS or CLC
and then it has to be manually resubmitted once that's fixed.



Holding Pattern

Quote from: CAP9907 on May 13, 2020, 10:31:03 pm
Quote from: Holding Pattern on May 13, 2020, 10:12:07 pmStep 1. Your Squadron Commander. Give him a month to fix it.
Step 2. Your group or wing commander.
Step 3. IG.

IG?? Whatever for?

~9907

Waste, potential fraud if he paid for the class.

Eclipse




Phil Hirons, Jr.

Purely as an Academic Exercise

Yes this could be an IG Complaint. No one can deny a member from filing a complaint. I am NOT suggesting this course of action.

Hypothetically and based on the limited information provided, complaint analysis would result in a resolution strategy of assistance.

FROM CAPR 20-2
QuoteAssist. An IG assist is the process of making phone calls, asking questions, or soliciting helpful
information from appropriate offices or agencies or putting complainants in touch with people, offices or
agencies that can address their concerns. Assistance is used when there is no evidence or assertion of
personal wrongdoing by a CAP member. Assistance is the IG giving aid or support to quickly resolve a
member's real or perceived problem. Once the assist is complete, the case will be closed in SoR and noted
as an assist

As in IG calls PD and says this guy took CLC 5 months ago and has not gotten credit and now can't get Level III. Could you find out what's holding this up and fix it?

This concludes the Academic Exercise


Fubar

What an IG is and what an IG does might be the two most misunderstood things about CAP.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Phil Hirons, Jr. on May 14, 2020, 01:50:11 pmPurely as an Academic Exercise

Yes this could be an IG Complaint. No one can deny a member from filing a complaint. I am NOT suggesting this course of action.

Hypothetically and based on the limited information provided, complaint analysis would result in a resolution strategy of assistance.

FROM CAPR 20-2
QuoteAssist. An IG assist is the process of making phone calls, asking questions, or soliciting helpful
information from appropriate offices or agencies or putting complainants in touch with people, offices or
agencies that can address their concerns. Assistance is used when there is no evidence or assertion of
personal wrongdoing by a CAP member. Assistance is the IG giving aid or support to quickly resolve a
member's real or perceived problem. Once the assist is complete, the case will be closed in SoR and noted
as an assist

As in IG calls PD and says this guy took CLC 5 months ago and has not gotten credit and now can't get Level III. Could you find out what's holding this up and fix it?

This concludes the Academic Exercise



I should also point out that in terms of where to use the IG I only suggested that as an option when one's command elements have been fully exhausted first.

Eclipse

Quote from: Holding Pattern on May 14, 2020, 05:00:01 pmI should also point out that in terms of where to use the IG I only suggested that as an option when one's command elements have been fully exhausted first.

Fair enough - you made an incorrect suggestion and it's good that it's been pointed out.

"I didn't get my CLC credit." Isn't grounds for an FWA complaint (or any other) just because you
dropped $5 on donuts for the class breakfast.

For those of you scoring at home, FWA involves depriving the corporation of an asset or resource
though commission or omission.  It has nothing to do with member grievances or related command or staff failings.

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/cap-national-hq/inspector-general/fraud-waste-and-abuse



Phil Hirons, Jr.

Quote from: Fubar on May 14, 2020, 04:56:42 pmWhat an IG is and what an IG does might be the two most misunderstood things about CAP.

And as IGs we are supposed to try to educate the membership on the programs and processes. I took a while to decide to say anything but I think the educational opportunity was a good one.