May 26, 2020, 04:25:05 pm

CAPR 39-1, 5 March 2020

Started by NIN, March 05, 2020, 08:39:44 pm

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kcebnaes

Quote from: Eclipse on March 06, 2020, 07:00:55 pmSee page 143...




Any ideas on why Officers no longer have their grade, but NCOs do? I'd *guess* it's because officers have shoulder insignia, and NCOs don't?
Sean Beck, Maj, CAP
Great Lakes Region sUAS Officer
Various Other Things™

DocJekyll

Quote from: Eclipse on March 06, 2020, 07:00:55 pm
Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on March 06, 2020, 06:00:47 pmI didn't order from VG. I ordered one with gold Naval Aircrew wings on navy blue with silver name and border from Wings and Things in Pensacola. They've always taken great care of me. I'll order one with CAP AC wings from VG when I get rated.

Presumably this is not for wear on a CAP uniform as no border is authorized.

See page 143...


The border on the new name patch is silver in color.

8.2.4.1. "...A Blue cloth nametag with silver border and
lettering is authorized in place of the leather nametag, if cloth grade insignia as described above is worn.
Cloth nametag for Officers will include name (first and last) and may include one badge as described
above."

When they say above, it's referencing the same paragraph where it says:

"Badges authorized include one CAP aeronautical rating, CAP occupational badges, a
description of a mission qualification ("Mission Scanner") and military aviation or occupational badge
when earned through qualification, awarded by competent authority for service performed in any branch
of the armed forces of the United States or its allies, AND authorized for wear on the USAF uniform by
AFI 36-2903.
"
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.


DocJekyll

Quote from: kcebnaes on March 06, 2020, 07:09:38 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on March 06, 2020, 07:00:55 pmSee page 143...




Any ideas on why Officers no longer have their grade, but NCOs do? I'd *guess* it's because officers have shoulder insignia, and NCOs don't?

You would be correct. Cadets and NCO's don't have shoulder rank, so having that on their name patch would identify rank and cadet/senior status. Senior member officers have shoulder rank, so boom.

What it doesn't talk about is Flight Officer ranks. Presumably that would mean flight officer bars go on the FDU now?
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.


HandsomeWalt_USMC

March 06, 2020, 07:27:25 pm #43 Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 07:37:04 pm by HandsomeWalt_USMC
Quote from: Eclipse on March 06, 2020, 07:00:55 pm
Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on March 06, 2020, 06:00:47 pmI didn't order from VG. I ordered one with gold Naval Aircrew wings on navy blue with silver name and border from Wings and Things in Pensacola. They've always taken great care of me. I'll order one with CAP AC wings from VG when I get rated.

Presumably this is not for wear on a CAP uniform as no border is authorized.

See page 143...


Paragraph 8.2.4.1 "A blue cloth nametag with silver border and lettering..." Do your reading before you try to call people out, Eclipse. Also, the image you posted literally shows a silver border on the nametag.

Edit: I miscited the paragraph number.
HANDSOME SENDS

Semper Fidelis

"PRIDE IS CONTAGIOUS"

GroundHawg

Quote from: DocJekyll on March 06, 2020, 06:01:21 pm
Quote from: GroundHawg on March 06, 2020, 05:11:50 pmNASAR patches can't be worn on the CFU or CFDU?

10.9.23. National Association for Search and Rescue (NASAR) Patch. May be worn by
graduates of the Search and Rescue School.

Attachment 4 (page 127)

shows not authorized on the CFU or CFDU.

Very strange as they are good to go on the FDU, ABU, and BDU

Also as has been noted, there is no such thing as a NASAR SAR School

Eclipse

Dear NHQ - Photoshop has a "stroke" function to help separate images from blending into
a background color.  Understandably MS paint doesn't, but there must be someone who
can download an eval copy long enough to make decent graphics.



Eclipse

To be fair, this is a pretty decent attempt to incorporate a ton of changes into a complex document,
but this is another situation where actually observing the prescribed 30-day draft period would
have allowed for comment and fixes before being published.

Just as in 2014, a lot of these issues are glaring to new eyes.

Hopefully it won't be 2026 before the typos and errata are corrected, since there
is literally no reason they can't be done in real time as they are spotted.



DocJekyll

Quote from: Eclipse on March 06, 2020, 07:42:53 pmTo be fair, this is a pretty decent attempt to incorporate a ton of changes into a complex document,
but this is another situation where actually observing the prescribed 30-day draft period would
have allowed for comment and fixes before being published.

Just as in 2014, a lot of these issues are glaring to new eyes.

Hopefully it won't be 2026 before the typos and errata are corrected, since there
is literally no reason they can't be done in real time as they are spotted.

I would tend to agree. I'm very surprised there wasn't a preview to catch some of these issues.

That being said... I'm sure there will be an update, and I also imagine this version of the 39-1 will be more short lived than it's previous version.
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.


CAP_truth

Mini medals now authorized on corporate formal blazer wear.
Cadet CoP
Wilson

mdickinson

March 07, 2020, 01:24:11 am #49 Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 01:32:20 am by mdickinson Reason: read farther down in the thread!
Quote from: arajca on March 05, 2020, 09:27:39 pmPhasing out old USAF service coat - 1 Aug 2021.
According to para. 4.1.7 the phase out date is 1 Aug 2020 (about 5 months from now)

Edit: read further down in the thread, and learned that the date in para 4.1.7 is a typo.

GaryVC

I see Rothco has inexpensive ($42.95) blue flight jackets. Nothing from Vanguard as yet. Looks like I need one if I can't wear my lightweight blue jacket with the CWU. Any other suggestions for a source?

ßτε

Quote from: GaryVC on March 07, 2020, 05:55:19 pmI see Rothco has inexpensive ($42.95) blue flight jackets. Nothing from Vanguard as yet. Looks like I need one if I can't wear my lightweight blue jacket with the CWU. Any other suggestions for a source?
Were you wearing the lightweight blue jacket with the CWU before?

GaryVC

It was legal to wear it without grade insignia when I bought it 40 years ago on active duty.

GZCP31

Quote from: mdickinson on March 07, 2020, 01:24:11 am
Quote from: arajca on March 05, 2020, 09:27:39 pmPhasing out old USAF service coat - 1 Aug 2021.
According to para. 4.1.7 the phase out date is 1 Aug 2020 (about 5 months from now)

Edit: read further down in the thread, and learned that the date in para 4.1.7 is a typo.
Until someone from National states that it is a typo, I will assume that it is correct as written.

As it stands now, the Old USAF Service coat is phased out on 1 Aug 2020 for all EXCEPT Honor Guard. I can understand this as most Honor Guard keep a separate service uniform ready for their duties. The uniform should be in pristine shape and not used for any other duties. Most of the Honor Guard members I know purchased a brand new uniform or inherited it from another Honor Guard member. Giving them an additional year to gather the new uniform makes since.
Former OK Wing DCL/DCA Mid 90s, Rejoined after 17 years out.
Capt. Communications-Master
Squadron Deputy Commander, Emergency Services Training Officer,  Professional Development Officer,  Administration Officer, Personnel Officer, Communications Officer and Aerospace Education Officer, Texas Wing DOU

Eclipse

40 years ago they didn't have corporate variants in the way they do now.

It's never been legal to mix USAF-Style and corporate parts insignia or otherwise.



Vegas1972

Quote from: Eclipse on March 07, 2020, 08:00:12 pm40 years ago they didn't have corporate variants in the way they do now.

It's never been legal to mix USAF-Style and corporate parts insignia or otherwise.

Except for the cardigan sweater...
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.", Sgt. John M. Stryker.

Eclipse

True enough.

I also noticed just now that the table of contents was fixed so it's clickable.



Mitchell 1969

Quote from: Eclipse on March 07, 2020, 08:00:12 pm40 years ago they didn't have corporate variants in the way they do now.

It's never been legal to mix USAF-Style and corporate parts insignia or otherwise.

The blue jacket is USAF's to regulate. If they say it can be worn with civilian clothes, and CAP says that any jacket can be worn with a civilian uniform, where is the problem?


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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

Eclipse

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on March 07, 2020, 11:56:45 pmThe blue jacket is USAF's to regulate. If they say it can be worn with civilian clothes, and CAP says that any jacket can be worn with a civilian uniform, where is the problem?

39-1 does not say "any jacket", it says "Appropriate civilian outer garments are authorized..."
in all references.

The Lightweight Blue Jacket is not a civilian outer garment.  It is a USAF uniform item.



SarDragon

Having participated in the military uniform circus for 50+ years, both AD and CAP, I'm gonna go with Mitchell on this. It has no identifying markings, and is very close to jackets available in civilian stores.

Otherwise, I'm pretty much on board with the prohibition of mixing AF and civilian items, since the AF stuff is generally identifiable in some form.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret