CAP to the Bahamas for Hurricane Dorian Response

Started by etodd, September 17, 2019, 02:10:33 pm

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etodd

QuoteCivil Air Patrol recently sent eight of its Cessnas to the Bahamas to help assess damage inflicted by Hurricane Dorian, in CAP's first international mission in 10 years, CAP National Commander and CEO Maj. Gen. Mark Smith told Air Force Magazine in a Sept. 16 interview at AFA's 2019 Air, Space & Cyber Conference in National Harbor, Md.

"So, Civil Air Patrol was asked to go down and perform aerial imaging, as well as airborne sensors... for aerial surveys of key infrastructure and airfields and those types of things," Smith said. "That was done for several days before the next phase of recovery operations needed to start."


http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2019/September%202019/Civil-Air-Patrol-Sends-Cessnas-to-the-Bahamas-for-Hurricane-Dorian-Response.aspx
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Майор Хаткевич


THRAWN

Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
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etodd

Quote from: THRAWN on September 17, 2019, 02:42:12 pm
Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on September 17, 2019, 02:24:51 pm
No drones?!?  >:D :angel: :clap:


:clap:



;D ;D ;D ;D

Nope.  Wrong type of mission. FEMA Urban SAR Teams not involved on this one. 

WALDO covered this one.  Increasingly taking the place of us APs with our little Nikon DSLRs. How many years before this new tech eliminates the AP position from ES?

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Flying Pig

CAP is interesting in their tasking by FEMA.  Local LE, CBP, US military, USCG have all flown and taken video and photos, and then here comes CAP days later.  Same thing happened here in GA with Dorian.   The Department of Natural Resources flew photo missions and damage assessment missions and determined nothing had happened, with decision makers in the aircraft seeing it first hand and taking photos and video.   The event was over and CAP shows up on scene doing 7-8 hour flight sorties with 2-3 aircraft 3 days after everyone went home and flew the exact same route we had flown.  In fact,  The Dept of Natural Resources was flying and taking photos and video with CAP planes flying the same route at the same time.  Not sure why we need this 4th- 5th level of redundancy using hand held Nikon cameras. FEMA has access to all of the information the LE, CBP and USCG provides.  Id assume they have access to the mil info.  I know CAP likes to go back and talk about flying over 9/11.  But NYPD had aircraft up continually. But when CAP puts it out there, they make is sounds like this Cessna 182 flying by was the only link to the outside world.  Do what youre asked to do, sure.  But the being 4th or 5th down on the level of redundancy is perplexing. 

etodd

Quote from: Flying Pig on September 17, 2019, 03:23:24 pm
CAP is interesting in their tasking by FEMA.  Local LE, CBP, US military, USCG have all flown and taken video and photos, and then here comes CAP days later.  Same thing happened here in GA with Dorian.   The Department of Natural Resources flew photo missions and damage assessment missions and determined nothing had happened, with decision makers in the aircraft seeing it first hand and taking photos and video.   The event was over and CAP shows up on scene doing 7-8 hour flight sorties with 2-3 aircraft 3 days after everyone went home and flew the exact same route we had flown.  In fact,  The Dept of Natural Resources was flying and taking photos and video with CAP planes flying the same route at the same time.  Not sure why we need this 4th- 5th level of redundancy using hand held Nikon cameras. FEMA has access to all of the information the LE, CBP and USCG provides.  Id assume they have access to the mil info.  I know CAP likes to go back and talk about flying over 9/11.  But NYPD had aircraft up continually. But when CAP puts it out there, they make is sounds like this Cessna 182 flying by was the only link to the outside world.  Do what youre asked to do, sure.  But the being 4th or 5th down on the level of redundancy is perplexing.


For sure.   But do we want to point it out or say it too loudly? Take FEMA's use of CAP out of the equation, and how many airplanes might we lose? A few? More than a few? Maybe none? Whether its flooding, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc., CAP has surely put lots of hobbs time into it. I would hate to see that dry up.
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THRAWN

Quote from: etodd on September 17, 2019, 02:48:30 pm
Quote from: THRAWN on September 17, 2019, 02:42:12 pm
Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on September 17, 2019, 02:24:51 pm
No drones?!?  >:D :angel: :clap:


:clap:



;D ;D ;D ;D

Nope.  Wrong type of mission. FEMA Urban SAR Teams not involved on this one. 

WALDO covered this one.  Increasingly taking the place of us APs with our little Nikon DSLRs. How many years before this new tech eliminates the AP position from ES?


Wrong.

"Question: Hi. Thank you for doing this. Are there any plans for the mobilization of more FEMA resources to the Bahamas?

Senior Administration Official: This is USAID. I can take that question and then turn it over to others. At this time, we are deploying, as I mentioned, the two urban search and rescue teams from L.A. County, California and Fairfax County, Virginia. These two urban search and rescue teams happen to be also FEMA teams that respond to domestic emergencies. Other than that, once we identify needs that are not being able to be met, we will identify all sorts of different sources to meet those needs. So, at this time though, we have not requested additional assistance from FEMA."

https://www.state.gov/u-s-response-to-hurricane-dorian-in-the-bahamas-on-background-telephonic-press-briefing-with-senior-administration-officials/
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
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etodd

September 17, 2019, 03:48:32 pm #7 Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 03:53:12 pm by etodd
Quote from: THRAWN on September 17, 2019, 03:41:30 pm

At this time, we are deploying, as I mentioned, the two urban search and rescue teams from L.A. County, California and Fairfax County, Virginia. These two urban search and rescue teams happen to be also FEMA teams that respond to domestic emergencies.



Didn't see that article. Thanks for posting! 

Glad to see that the FEMA Urban SAR Teams are getting more coverage.  Someone here at CAPTalk a few weeks ago denied they even existed. Forget who said that.

Yes,  everything is changing quickly.  As Flying Pig posted, who knows if we are truly even needed anymore in many cases. FEMA will handle ground team work, and WALDO for photography. The work we do now? Maybe its politics and we are just being thrown the occasional bone by some FEMA officials. LOL

Whatever gets us working ....
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THRAWN

Quote from: etodd on September 17, 2019, 03:48:32 pm
Quote from: THRAWN on September 17, 2019, 03:41:30 pm

At this time, we are deploying, as I mentioned, the two urban search and rescue teams from L.A. County, California and Fairfax County, Virginia. These two urban search and rescue teams happen to be also FEMA teams that respond to domestic emergencies.



Didn't see that article. Thanks for posting! 

Glad to see that the FEMA Urban SAR Teams are getting more coverage.  Someone here at CAPTalk a few weeks ago denied they even existed. Forget who said that.

Yes,  everything is changing quickly.  As Flying Pig posted, who knows if we are truly even needed anymore in many cases. FEMA will handle ground team work, and WALDO for photography. The work we do now? Maybe its politics and we are just being thrown the occasional bone by some FEMA officials. LOL

Whatever gets us working ....


I did not deny they existed. FEMA owns the names, provides the standard, and the states provide the personnel and training. They are state assets, operating under federal guidelines.
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016

etodd

Quote from: THRAWN on September 17, 2019, 03:58:03 pm

I did not deny they existed. ...


Didn't say you did.

At any rate .... back to the post.  Its great to see us being used outside the U.S. again, even if just a quick few days. May open up some more doors. We need new doors for sure. Times a changin'
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PHall

Quote from: etodd on September 17, 2019, 03:48:32 pm
Quote from: THRAWN on September 17, 2019, 03:41:30 pm

At this time, we are deploying, as I mentioned, the two urban search and rescue teams from L.A. County, California and Fairfax County, Virginia. These two urban search and rescue teams happen to be also FEMA teams that respond to domestic emergencies.



Didn't see that article. Thanks for posting! 

Glad to see that the FEMA Urban SAR Teams are getting more coverage.  Someone here at CAPTalk a few weeks ago denied they even existed. Forget who said that.

Yes,  everything is changing quickly.  As Flying Pig posted, who knows if we are truly even needed anymore in many cases. FEMA will handle ground team work, and WALDO for photography. The work we do now? Maybe its politics and we are just being thrown the occasional bone by some FEMA officials. LOL

Whatever gets us working ....


The FEMA part of the USAR teams is that FEMA provides the training and equipment standards and they pay for the deployment costs when they deploy outside of their home states.
California Team 1 is still very much owned and paid by the County of Los Angeles Fire Department.
They are not "owned" by FEMA. FEMA has not paid for any of their equipment. FEMA does help pay for some of the training.

JayT

Quote from: etodd on September 17, 2019, 04:09:51 pm
Quote from: THRAWN on September 17, 2019, 03:58:03 pm

I did not deny they existed. ...


Didn't say you did.

At any rate .... back to the post.  Its great to see us being used outside the U.S. again, even if just a quick few days. May open up some more doors. We need new doors for sure. Times a changin'


Are you talking about USAR or CAP?
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

etodd

Quote from: JayT on September 17, 2019, 06:17:36 pm
Quote from: etodd on September 17, 2019, 04:09:51 pm
Quote from: THRAWN on September 17, 2019, 03:58:03 pm

I did not deny they existed. ...


Didn't say you did.

At any rate .... back to the post.  Its great to see us being used outside the U.S. again, even if just a quick few days. May open up some more doors. We need new doors for sure. Times a changin'


Are you talking about USAR or CAP?


I was referring to CAP going to the Bahamas. See the article linked at the top post.  ^^^
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NIN

As somebody who sat in the National Staff Meeting this morning and got to listen to John Desmaris brief on the particulars of our specific mission in the Bahamas, I can appreciate the accuracy of the "informed guesses" here.

Which are certainly "guesses" and pretty much "uninformed" even based on what the General said in the linked article.

Carry on, by all means.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
Nothing posted on CAPTalk should be considered policy unless otherwise stated
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2020 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Ed Bos

Quote from: NIN on September 17, 2019, 08:16:56 pm
As somebody who sat in the National Staff Meeting this morning and got to listen to John Desmaris brief on the particulars of our specific mission in the Bahamas, I can appreciate the accuracy of the "informed guesses" here.

Which are certainly "guesses" and pretty much "uninformed" even based on what the General said in the linked article.

Carry on, by all means.


Soooo... It's CAPTALK?  ::)
EDWARD A. BOS, Lt Col, CAP
Email: edward.bos(at)orwgcap.org
PCR-OR-001

etodd

Quote from: NIN on September 17, 2019, 08:16:56 pm
As somebody who sat in the National Staff Meeting this morning and got to listen to John Desmaris brief on the particulars of our specific mission in the Bahamas, I can appreciate the accuracy of the "informed guesses" here.

Which are certainly "guesses" and pretty much "uninformed" even based on what the General said in the linked article.

Carry on, by all means.


I just linked the Air Force Mag article .... expecting High Fives .... then it went sideways as usual, from the usual suspects.

Or are you saying the Air Force Mag got it wrong? Did Desmaris give a different take?

I always assumed Air Force Mag was accurate. Please let me know if I should view it cautiously, as The Onion.
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Flying Pig

Oh lord, the article mentions assessing storm damage in Georgia. :o   Now things are awkward.

PHall

Quote from: etodd on September 17, 2019, 09:27:30 pm
Quote from: NIN on September 17, 2019, 08:16:56 pm
As somebody who sat in the National Staff Meeting this morning and got to listen to John Desmaris brief on the particulars of our specific mission in the Bahamas, I can appreciate the accuracy of the "informed guesses" here.

Which are certainly "guesses" and pretty much "uninformed" even based on what the General said in the linked article.

Carry on, by all means.


I just linked the Air Force Mag article .... expecting High Fives .... then it went sideways as usual, from the usual suspects.

Or are you saying the Air Force Mag got it wrong? Did Desmaris give a different take?

I always assumed Air Force Mag was accurate. Please let me know if I should view it cautiously, as The Onion.


Air Force Magazine is no more accurate or inaccurate then any other non-official news source. Just like any other news source they've been known to get it wrong every now and then.
The news source I trust is the source itself. The Public Affairs offices of the military.

NIN

Quote from: etodd on September 17, 2019, 09:27:30 pm
I just linked the Air Force Mag article .... expecting High Fives .... then it went sideways as usual, from the usual suspects.


Expecting high fives was your first big mistake.

QuoteOr are you saying the Air Force Mag got it wrong? Did Desmaris give a different take?

I always assumed Air Force Mag was accurate. Please let me know if I should view it cautiously, as The Onion.


Its media, no better or worse than anything else.

What we did, and how we did it, in the Bahamas was important. Important enough that the 1AF CC, Lt Gen Sasseville, visited the ICP to meet with CAP about it.

And the products we provided our customers were timely and accurate enough to provide the AF & DoD with actionable intel that informed the response planning cycle and things like the ATO.

So, contrary to widely held opinion, CAP is out there doing relevant stuff today.  Don't buy the naysayers.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
Nothing posted on CAPTalk should be considered policy unless otherwise stated
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2020 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Flying Pig

Quote from: NIN on September 18, 2019, 08:32:18 pm
Quote from: etodd on September 17, 2019, 09:27:30 pm
I just linked the Air Force Mag article .... expecting High Fives .... then it went sideways as usual, from the usual suspects.


Expecting high fives was your first big mistake.

QuoteOr are you saying the Air Force Mag got it wrong? Did Desmaris give a different take?

I always assumed Air Force Mag was accurate. Please let me know if I should view it cautiously, as The Onion.


Its media, no better or worse than anything else.

What we did, and how we did it, in the Bahamas was important. Important enough that the 1AF CC, Lt Gen Sasseville, visited the ICP to meet with CAP about it.

And the products we provided our customers were timely and accurate enough to provide the AF & DoD with actionable intel that informed the response planning cycle and things like the ATO.

So, contrary to widely held opinion, CAP is out there doing relevant stuff today.  Don't buy the naysayers.


So what did CAP do and how did that do it?