Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 14, 2019, 10:18:05 AM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Protocol in Classrooms
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] 2  All Send this topic Print
Author Topic: Protocol in Classrooms  (Read 2563 times)
DocJekyll
Forum Regular

Posts: 185

« on: June 22, 2019, 09:52:01 PM »

Hello all,

I have looked everywhere I can think, and haven't been able to find it, so I'm reaching out in the hope someone on here knows where it is:

Where would one find regulatory guidance on the protocols for classroom environments? When you call the room to attention/don't call to attention, what are the exceptions, etc.? If a class instructor invokes classroom protocol, is that overridden when certain command staff come in? Like Group CC or Wing CC (or higher)

I was told one thing but am aware it's been done other ways, and wish to do my due diligence if I'm going to quote something or change what I'm doing with regard for protocol.
Report to moderator   Logged
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.

NIN
Administrator

Posts: 5,365
Unit: of issue

« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2019, 10:07:16 PM »

This has generally been on a case by case, unit by unit basis.

Some units demand things like everybody at attention before taking seats, others have everybody pop to when the instructor enters, etc.

Big thing to remember, really, is that it's not appropriate to interrupt a block of instruction to call av room to attention. The focus is on the instruction, and no officer worth his or her salt would expect that.

Report to moderator   Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
*
Posts: 30,261

« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2019, 10:26:27 PM »

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/Respect_On_Display__CAPP_151_A1658A31B2A97.pdf

COMING TO ATTENTION
Key Principle
It is customary for all members to come to attention when the commander enters the room.

Finer Points

• If an officer who is higher ranking than anyone present enters the room, the first person to notice commands, “Room, ATTENTION.” If
only senior members or officers are present, the first to notice the commander uses the more cordial, “Ladies and gentlemen, the commander” instead.

• In a classroom, conference setting, or work environment, these customs are usually relaxed.
Report to moderator   Logged


etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,851

« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2019, 10:41:06 PM »

Still being a relative newbie in CAP as its just been 3 and 1/2 years ... how common is the “Room, ATTENTION.” thing in CAP at all, assuming we are talking about Senior meetings?  I've been to many meetings, SAREXs, Wing meetings and training sessions, and I have never seen it done. For that matter, I have yet to see a Senior salute another. (Do see all this with Cadets)  I'm assuming its a very regional thing maybe, or even varies widely by Squadrons?
Report to moderator   Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,769
Unit: Smoots

« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2019, 10:50:38 PM »

Yell and stand is primarily a cadet thing. I see it once in a while at senior activities if it's something formal, but most of the time meetings are pretty laid back. When I was around cadet activities, I had a signal for the cadet leaders, so they wouldn't need to interrupt proceedings just because I was coming to observe.

As for saluting, it's generally only done in AF-style uniforms, so all the folks in corporates rarely have/get the opportunity. Again, it mostly occurs when there are cadets around, or during ceremonies.
Report to moderator   Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
*
Posts: 30,261

« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2019, 01:22:11 AM »

As for saluting, it's generally only done in AF-style uniforms, so all the folks in corporates rarely have/get the opportunity. Again, it mostly occurs when there are cadets around, or during ceremonies.

Disagree with both assertions, though your personal mileage may be different.

Full courtesies are expected regardless of uniform, including golf shirts.

If people don't do it properly, remind them nicely.
Report to moderator   Logged


SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,769
Unit: Smoots

« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2019, 08:30:42 AM »

As for saluting, it's generally only done in AF-style uniforms, so all the folks in corporates rarely have/get the opportunity. Again, it mostly occurs when there are cadets around, or during ceremonies.

Disagree with both assertions, though your personal mileage may be different.

Full courtesies are expected regardless of uniform, including golf shirts.

If people don't do it properly, remind them nicely.

Yes, my mileage varies a bit. I learned - no hat, no salute. Since there is no prescribed hat for corporate uniforms, salutes are not required. Also, since there is no rank insignia worn on the polo shirt, wearers of that  uniform cannot be distinguished as officer or otherwise. Not all SMs rate a salute.
Aside from all that, where does it directly specify that salutes are exchanged in corporate uniforms? Just a paragraph number will do; you don't need to put a whle quote on here.
Report to moderator   Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 959
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2019, 09:16:12 AM »

As for saluting, it's generally only done in AF-style uniforms, so all the folks in corporates rarely have/get the opportunity. Again, it mostly occurs when there are cadets around, or during ceremonies.

Disagree with both assertions, though your personal mileage may be different.

Full courtesies are expected regardless of uniform, including golf shirts.

If people don't do it properly, remind them nicely.

Yes, my mileage varies a bit. I learned - no hat, no salute. Since there is no prescribed hat for corporate uniforms, salutes are not required. Also, since there is no rank insignia worn on the polo shirt, wearers of that  uniform cannot be distinguished as officer or otherwise. Not all SMs rate a salute.
Aside from all that, where does it directly specify that salutes are exchanged in corporate uniforms? Just a paragraph number will do; you don't need to put a whle quote on here.

No hat, no salute is a thing in the sea services. Not so in the Army or the Air Force.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Report to moderator   Logged
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
NIN
Administrator

Posts: 5,365
Unit: of issue

« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2019, 12:43:16 PM »

As for saluting, it's generally only done in AF-style uniforms, so all the folks in corporates rarely have/get the opportunity. Again, it mostly occurs when there are cadets around, or during ceremonies.

Disagree with both assertions, though your personal mileage may be different.

Full courtesies are expected regardless of uniform, including golf shirts.

If people don't do it properly, remind them nicely.

Yes, my mileage varies a bit. I learned - no hat, no salute. Since there is no prescribed hat for corporate uniforms, salutes are not required. Also, since there is no rank insignia worn on the polo shirt, wearers of that  uniform cannot be distinguished as officer or otherwise. Not all SMs rate a salute.
Aside from all that, where does it directly specify that salutes are exchanged in corporate uniforms? Just a paragraph number will do; you don't need to put a whle quote on here.

CAPP 151, page 3.
Report to moderator   Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,862
Unit: Earth

« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2019, 12:46:23 PM »

Salutes are exchanged only in the white aviator shirt, corporate flightsuit, and corporate field uniform.  Salutes are not exchanged in polo or blazer combinations:

Quote from: CAPP 151
For senior members, the rendering of customs and courtesies is expected when wearing a military-style uniform (all uniform combinations except the polo shirt and blazer).
Report to moderator   Logged
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,676

« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2019, 03:24:28 PM »

Salutes are exchanged only in the white aviator shirt, corporate flightsuit, and corporate field uniform.  Salutes are not exchanged in polo or blazer combinations:

Quote from: CAPP 151
For senior members, the rendering of customs and courtesies is expected when wearing a military-style uniform (all uniform combinations except the polo shirt and blazer).

In other words, uniforms where grade insignia is worn. (Though there is grade insignia on the blazer nametag, but it's pretty small.)
Report to moderator   Logged
NovemberWhiskey
Member

Posts: 76
Unit: NER-NY-301

« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2019, 03:54:09 PM »

No hat, no salute is a thing in the sea services. Not so in the Army or the Air Force.

OK, but generally no saluting indoors when also no hats ... also let us not forget that there's no saluting in mess dress.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 03:58:49 PM by NovemberWhiskey » Report to moderator   Logged
NIN
Administrator

Posts: 5,365
Unit: of issue

« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2019, 04:11:26 PM »

Correct: _generally_ you do not exchange salutes indoors, except when reporting.

It is my understanding that the Navy and Marines don't salute when reporting, except when under arms (at which point, they generally have a hat on, which conforms to their "no hat, no salute. Hat, salute" rule)

But we follow the AF rule, which is pretty much "no saluting without a hat, except when reporting."
Report to moderator   Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
*
Posts: 30,261

« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2019, 04:22:42 PM »

OK, but generally no saluting indoors when also no hats ... also let us not forget that there's no saluting in mess dress.

Cite "no hats" in a CAP context.

"Pretty much" doesn't fly.

Is it irony how "important" this stuff is, except for 1/2 the adult leadership (arguably the ones doing the lion's share) supposedly doesn't get to play?

Or maybe the word I'm looking for is "hypocrisy"?

A butter bar with 15 minutes in gets saluted because he's got a hat on, but the National CC doesn't
because he's wearing the Realtor jacket?

Yeah, no.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 04:27:36 PM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


NovemberWhiskey
Member

Posts: 76
Unit: NER-NY-301

« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2019, 04:28:52 PM »

Cite "no hats" in a CAP context.

I was saying that hats are not generally worn indoors, and there is also generally no saluting indoors. Hence, it is generally the case that one doesn't exchange salutes except when wearing a hat. I'm not saying it's a regulation, nor that is universally the case.
Report to moderator   Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
*
Posts: 30,261

« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2019, 04:46:52 PM »

Q: Generally based on what?

A: A wives tale, probably propagated by people with a vested interest.

I can't begin to imagine any other reason one member would encourage another not to render a salute or courtesies
based on what they are wearing, and doubly for cadets, who should really be saluting every adult member (except for those
who have self-selected wearing grade-equivalence from another service).
Report to moderator   Logged


NovemberWhiskey
Member

Posts: 76
Unit: NER-NY-301

« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2019, 05:01:16 PM »

Q: Generally based on what?

e.g. CAPP151 "Respect on Display" p. 5: "Indoors, salute officers only when formally reporting (ie: when called forward to receive an award)."?

It's unclear to me whether there is some no-salute cabal within CAP that concerns you; I'm not part of it, but I don't expect cadets to salute me indoors.
Report to moderator   Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
*
Posts: 30,261

« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2019, 05:14:02 PM »

This isn't about "indoors" it's about the "no hat" nonsense.

Considering a hat isn't required for any corporate uniform, and 2 major variants don't have head gear,
that doesn't fly.

And yes there are members who will ignore a field grade officer in whites, even their CC, while at the same time dressing
down others for not saluting or acknowledging them.
Report to moderator   Logged


etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,851

« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2019, 06:54:56 PM »

What Squadron/ Wing follows all this to the letter. I’d like to visit sometime and see it all in action. Wing Commander walks in a room here and everyone just keeps chatting. My Wing is VERY casual.
Report to moderator   Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
*
Posts: 30,261

« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2019, 07:18:14 PM »

This is my shocked face.
Report to moderator   Logged


Pages: [1] 2  All Send this topic Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Protocol in Classrooms
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.067 seconds with 26 queries.
click here to email me