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Author Topic: Is Your Wing Onboard Yet?  (Read 2445 times)
etodd
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« on: June 07, 2019, 03:47:49 PM »

Has the sUAS Program ramped up yet in your Wing?  Curious as to who is rolling it out.

I know there are teams building and training in Delaware, South Dakota, Colorado, Alabama, Maryland, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky. With Iowa about to start.

Others?

Going to be a slow process, as you need a real go-getter, self starter type person who is preferably already a Part 107 holder with experience, who can then get qualified as an Instructor / Check Pilot ... and is "willing" to then train other Instructors across the Wing, who can then train Squadron members.  Its a slow process. And some Wings may have trouble finding that candidate to be the lead. Its a heavy commitment of time.

Let us know how your Wing is doing.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 04:30:20 PM by etodd » Report to moderator   Logged
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husker
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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2019, 05:47:49 PM »

For those members in SouthEast region, we'll be holding an sUAS course at WESS next cycle.  May be a good way to get some folks jump started into the program.
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etodd
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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2019, 07:05:38 PM »

For those members in SouthEast region, we'll be holding an sUAS course at WESS next cycle.  May be a good way to get some folks jump started into the program.

Fantastic idea.  We are fulling rolling out in the Alabama Wing, but not sure of the other Wings in the SER.

During the courses in WESS, how many of the items in the F5u, SQTR, and F91u would a member get checked off? How close to completion so that us Check Pilots in the field can quickly get their F91u completed and sign them off as sUAS Mission Pilots?
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Kayll'b
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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2019, 09:01:03 PM »

Washington has been doing some things with sUAS at Washington all missions academy. I'm not sure if they've used them in any SAR yet though.

-Kayll'b
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etodd
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2019, 09:44:21 PM »

Washington has been doing some things with sUAS at Washington all missions academy. I'm not sure if they've used them in any SAR yet though.


Thats the AE STEM kit training. Its different than the new program rolling out nationally.
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Paul Creed III
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2019, 10:16:40 PM »

Has the sUAS Program ramped up yet in your Wing?  Curious as to who is rolling it out.

I know there are teams building and training in Delaware, South Dakota, Colorado, Alabama, Maryland, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky. With Iowa about to start.

Others?

Going to be a slow process, as you need a real go-getter, self starter type person who is preferably already a Part 107 holder with experience, who can then get qualified as an Instructor / Check Pilot ... and is "willing" to then train other Instructors across the Wing, who can then train Squadron members.  Its a slow process. And some Wings may have trouble finding that candidate to be the lead. Its a heavy commitment of time.

Let us know how your Wing is doing.

Ohio is working on training pilots and technicians now who will go out and train others.
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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2019, 06:28:21 AM »

Arizona has resources and several (recently) Form 5'd UAS pilots.
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etodd
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2019, 03:54:15 AM »

Arizona has resources and several (recently) Form 5'd UAS pilots.

For sure.

Lt Don Fry is doing a great job there:

https://www.azwg.org/2019/05/17/air-force-team-to-evaluate-readiness-of-civil-air-patrol-members-across-arizona-to-conduct-disaster-relief-search-and-rescue-missions/
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Fubar
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2019, 07:26:27 AM »

Arizona has resources and several (recently) Form 5'd UAS pilots.

For sure.

From the article linked:

Quote
Arizona Wing overcame a lack of operational guidance on sUAS flight and ground team release procedures and safely executed an effective sUAS SAR demo sortie.

Heh. I ran this through Google Translator which shows this means, "Nobody in charge has provided any procedures so we did our own thing and we didn't kill anybody."
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etodd
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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2019, 01:01:50 PM »

.....which shows this means, "Nobody in charge has provided any procedures so we did our own thing and we didn't kill anybody."

Yes, I totally thought that statement was very odd, since CAPR 70-1u covers Flight Releases. If anyone on the team was also an aircraft mission pilot, they would know the procedures very well:

This from CAPR 70-1u

Quote
9.10.2. Flight Release

9.10.2.1. A flight release is required prior to departure for all CAP sUAS sortie activities. Except as indicated below, each flight release must be issued via the eFlight Release function in WMIRS.
       
9.10.2.1.1. If WMIRS is not available, the CAP sUAS Sortie/Flight Release Log (CAPF 99U) may be used to temporarily document the flight release. A flight released via CAPF 99U must be recorded as an eFlight Release in WMIRS within 24 hours unless the NOC is informed of extenuating circumstances.

    9.10.2.2. The sUAS PIC must obtain the flight release from a designated FRO via in-person or telephone conversation and notify the FRO of any changes made prior to departure.

9.10.2.3. The FRO is responsible for verifying appropriate information, authorizing a CAP sUAS pilot to fly as pilot in command in CAP aircraft, documenting the appropriate mission symbol,

9.10.2.4. An FRO may not release a flight on which he or she is serving as part of the sUAS team in any capacity.

9.10.2.5. ICs or other incident staff officers on supervised missions may only release sUAS flights related to that mission at their FRO level of authority. Sorties with operational risk management scores requiring approval from a higher authority must still be referred to higher authorities (see paragraph 9.10.1.4.).

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THRAWN
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2019, 04:29:26 PM »

.....which shows this means, "Nobody in charge has provided any procedures so we did our own thing and we didn't kill anybody."

Yes, I totally thought that statement was very odd, since CAPR 70-1u covers Flight Releases. If anyone on the team was also an aircraft mission pilot, they would know the procedures very well:

This from CAPR 70-1u

Quote
9.10.2. Flight Release

9.10.2.1. A flight release is required prior to departure for all CAP sUAS sortie activities. Except as indicated below, each flight release must be issued via the eFlight Release function in WMIRS.
       
9.10.2.1.1. If WMIRS is not available, the CAP sUAS Sortie/Flight Release Log (CAPF 99U) may be used to temporarily document the flight release. A flight released via CAPF 99U must be recorded as an eFlight Release in WMIRS within 24 hours unless the NOC is informed of extenuating circumstances.

    9.10.2.2. The sUAS PIC must obtain the flight release from a designated FRO via in-person or telephone conversation and notify the FRO of any changes made prior to departure.

9.10.2.3. The FRO is responsible for verifying appropriate information, authorizing a CAP sUAS pilot to fly as pilot in command in CAP aircraft, documenting the appropriate mission symbol,

9.10.2.4. An FRO may not release a flight on which he or she is serving as part of the sUAS team in any capacity.

9.10.2.5. ICs or other incident staff officers on supervised missions may only release sUAS flights related to that mission at their FRO level of authority. Sorties with operational risk management scores requiring approval from a higher authority must still be referred to higher authorities (see paragraph 9.10.1.4.).


Even odder is that fact that no matter how many times you quite quote it, it is still not an official regulation.

[spelling fix]
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 03:17:03 AM by SarDragon » Report to moderator   Logged
Strup
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etodd
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2019, 04:43:45 PM »


Even odder is that fact that no matter how many times you quite it, it is still not an official regulation.

And yet over half the Wings in CAP are already implementing the program.

Yours will get there one day. Then your Wing Commander will give you the info you need.

Until then .... “What me worry?” 🤣🤣🤣
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PHall
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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2019, 05:18:18 PM »


Even odder is that fact that no matter how many times you quite it, it is still not an official regulation.

And yet over half the Wings in CAP are already implementing the program.

Yours will get there one day. Then your Wing Commander will give you the info you need.

Until then .... “What me worry?” 🤣🤣🤣

etodd, attitudes like yours is why CAP is looked upon as a bunch stumbling amateurs by the professional SAR community.
We have no self discipline. Don't like a reg, ignore it!

Why the rush? Why not slow down, get the guidance out to the users and then get this program going in an orderly, controlled manner.
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etodd
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2019, 05:40:11 PM »


Why not slow down, get the guidance out to the users and then get this program going in an orderly, controlled manner.

Why yes thank you ... that is exactly how its being done. Slowly, one Wing at a time, in an orderly manner.  The Wings that are implementing and/or are already at Operation Capability have "slowly" rolled it out.

Its a very slow process. First you have to get the initial few Instructors and CheckPilots qualified. So they can then train Instructors for Squadron training. Those who jumped on board early are way ahead of the game. The Wings that are sitting back will still get at the destination, just a few months (years?) later. It really is up to Wing Commanders at this point as to participation.

As I've said elsewhere, when your Wing is ready to begin, you will get the information from Your Wing Commander filtered down the chain your way.  Its all good.  :)
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Nor'easter
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« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2019, 03:43:29 AM »

Arizona has resources and several (recently) Form 5'd UAS pilots.

For sure.

From the article linked:

Quote
Arizona Wing overcame a lack of operational guidance on sUAS flight and ground team release procedures and safely executed an effective sUAS SAR demo sortie.

Heh. I ran this through Google Translator which shows this means, "Nobody in charge has provided any procedures so we did our own thing and we didn't kill anybody."

You do recognize that you're quoting a COMMENDABLE item of our Ops Eval report, right? We followed the (suggested) procedures and guidance from NHQ, and executed it in a superior manner that merited recognition from our USAF evaluation team. Let's redirect those spears you're throwing. NHQ needs to get on the ball and approve the *darn* series already.
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PHall
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« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2019, 04:58:00 AM »

Arizona has resources and several (recently) Form 5'd UAS pilots.

For sure.

From the article linked:

Quote
Arizona Wing overcame a lack of operational guidance on sUAS flight and ground team release procedures and safely executed an effective sUAS SAR demo sortie.

Heh. I ran this through Google Translator which shows this means, "Nobody in charge has provided any procedures so we did our own thing and we didn't kill anybody."

You do recognize that you're quoting a COMMENDABLE item of our Ops Eval report, right? We followed the (suggested) procedures and guidance from NHQ, and executed it in a superior manner that merited recognition from our USAF evaluation team. Let's redirect those spears you're throwing. NHQ needs to get on the ball and approve the *darn* series already.

And I'll ask this yet again. What is the hurry? Why can't you wait for the guidance from National Headquarters to be released through normal channels?
Is there a super urgent need or requirement here? ???
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etodd
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« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2019, 02:41:32 PM »

Why can't you wait for the guidance from National Headquarters to be released through normal channels?


Again ....

Its being done just that very way.  Normal channels down through Wing Commanders.  If your Wing Commander isn't starting up your Wing yet, then none of this CAPTalk sUAS Forum applies to you yet.

It'll come your way at some point.

Quote
Is there a super urgent need or requirement here?

In some Wings yes. There is a subset of this Program that has the Air Force as its customer. The AF is waiting for those Wings to get up and running with a sufficient number of sUAS MPs to be Mission Capable.
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THRAWN
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« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2019, 04:05:15 PM »

There is an organizational sense of urgency with this. CAP is almost a decade behind in the use of the technology and there is the desire to remain relevant in the ES/EM/DR fields. Despite the repeated assertions that this is being rolled out through "normal channels", PHall is, as usual, correct when he points out that there is no official guidance. A draft proposal of a suggested regulation that keeps getting quoted like it is coming from the burning bush, isn't worth the paper it is written on. Or not written on. Or whatever. If this was such an urgent priority then the regulation would have been published along with the initial roll out of the program. That way, it wouldn't be getting spoon fed to a narrow subset of the ever reviled GOBN. At this rate, it's going to be another couple of years before CAP is capable of fielding an effective drone capability locally. Looking at this from a state and federal emergency management level, there are other assets that could be put to use well before CAP is even considered.
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Strup
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etodd
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« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2019, 04:14:54 PM »


I totally get where many of you are coming from, but will ask it this way:

My Wing Commander and DO appointed me to be the Wing Program Director of sUAS.  They told me to start using the documents and procedures given to roll out this program in my Wing.

We are not doing all this "on our own".  Its ALL coming down from CAP Nat Hqds.

Should I say no?  Should all my counterparts in all these other Wings go on strike as well and refuse orders from above, until they erase the word "draft"?

Are you calling for a rebellion? Time for a mutiny?

Bottom line is that your gripe is not with me, its with National.  If you would like to inquire, here is their phone number 877.227.9142
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 04:19:16 PM by etodd » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2019, 05:01:50 PM »

The problem here is that a lot of people in CAP obey just the regs that are convenient,
and as soon as something FUN! EXCITING!  falls into their lap, within regs or not,
they will run out the door and start doing, then later complain that things went sideways.

Or conversely, the rest of the membership sees the GOBN doing FUN! EXCITING! in an extra-regulatory
fashion and either gets frustrated when they can't play, or uses it as an excuse to make up their own rules
regarding their FUN! EXCITING!

Professional organizations don't pick and choose which regulations they obey and which they don't,
including the ones about publication and approval of those same regulations.

There is no emergency here and the need for "urgency" passed about 10 years ago.

What many of us with seasoned RSRs see in this is another rushed program with high
expectations being touted as the next CAP savior which is likely going to get relegated to
the "good idea" closet.

A couple other things you should consider.

Unless every unit has a couple good UAVs, or at least groups, these things become
the new L-Pers / AP Cameras / Radios.  More often far from the mission, or in "Charlie's trunk, and Charlie's
in the Bahamas..."

Your physical proximity to NHQ means your CAP experience is not typical in any number of ways.

You have literally no idea the hundreds, if not thousands of man hours spent establishing relationships,
creating programs, and generally doing what is expected that have been destroyed by rushed programs,
1/2-baked ideas, and non stakeholders declaring "things".

This is why you are not getting the ticker-tape you expect.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 05:05:26 PM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


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