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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  CAP sUAS Discussions  |  Topic: Is Your Wing Onboard Yet?
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Author Topic: Is Your Wing Onboard Yet?  (Read 2456 times)
Spaceman3750
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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2019, 05:27:58 PM »

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THRAWN
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« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2019, 05:39:37 PM »



Does this mean that Ann-Margaret isn't coming?
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Strup
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etodd
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« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2019, 07:39:48 PM »

The problem here is that a lot of people in CAP obey just the regs that are convenient,
and as soon as something FUN! EXCITING!  falls into their lap, within regs or not,
they will run out the door and start doing, then later complain that things went sideways.

Or conversely, the rest of the membership sees the GOBN doing FUN! EXCITING! in an extra-regulatory
fashion and either gets frustrated when they can't play, or uses it as an excuse to make up their own rules
regarding their FUN! EXCITING!

Professional organizations don't pick and choose which regulations they obey and which they don't,
including the ones about publication and approval of those same regulations.

There is no emergency here and the need for "urgency" passed about 10 years ago.

What many of us with seasoned RSRs see in this is another rushed program with high
expectations being touted as the next CAP savior which is likely going to get relegated to
the "good idea" closet.

A couple other things you should consider.

Unless every unit has a couple good UAVs, or at least groups, these things become
the new L-Pers / AP Cameras / Radios.  More often far from the mission, or in "Charlie's trunk, and Charlie's
in the Bahamas..."

Your physical proximity to NHQ means your CAP experience is not typical in any number of ways.

You have literally no idea the hundreds, if not thousands of man hours spent establishing relationships,
creating programs, and generally doing what is expected that have been destroyed by rushed programs,
1/2-baked ideas, and non stakeholders declaring "things".

This is why you are not getting the ticker-tape you expect.


So in all of that, you didnít answer my question. Should I follow orders Iím getting from Hdqs to Wing down to me ... or should I refuse and tell them to stuff it?

Seems your problem is with National, not us guys in the field.
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO

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THRAWN
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« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2019, 08:11:15 PM »

The problem here is that a lot of people in CAP obey just the regs that are convenient,
and as soon as something FUN! EXCITING!  falls into their lap, within regs or not,
they will run out the door and start doing, then later complain that things went sideways.

Or conversely, the rest of the membership sees the GOBN doing FUN! EXCITING! in an extra-regulatory
fashion and either gets frustrated when they can't play, or uses it as an excuse to make up their own rules
regarding their FUN! EXCITING!

Professional organizations don't pick and choose which regulations they obey and which they don't,
including the ones about publication and approval of those same regulations.

There is no emergency here and the need for "urgency" passed about 10 years ago.

What many of us with seasoned RSRs see in this is another rushed program with high
expectations being touted as the next CAP savior which is likely going to get relegated to
the "good idea" closet.

A couple other things you should consider.

Unless every unit has a couple good UAVs, or at least groups, these things become
the new L-Pers / AP Cameras / Radios.  More often far from the mission, or in "Charlie's trunk, and Charlie's
in the Bahamas..."

Your physical proximity to NHQ means your CAP experience is not typical in any number of ways.

You have literally no idea the hundreds, if not thousands of man hours spent establishing relationships,
creating programs, and generally doing what is expected that have been destroyed by rushed programs,
1/2-baked ideas, and non stakeholders declaring "things".

This is why you are not getting the ticker-tape you expect.


So in all of that, you didnít answer my question. Should I follow orders Iím getting from Hdqs to Wing down to me ... or should I refuse and tell them to stuff it?

Seems your problem is with National, not us guys in the field.

It's actually with both. NHQ for expecting people to operate in the absence of an established official policy, and the yes-men who go along with "orders" in the absence of an official policy. If this was such a hot rock, the policy should have been fast tracked, made official, and this discussion would have never happened. Instead, somebody came up with a great idea, sketched a rough outline of how it should work and worry about making it a real regulation later. This is a prime example of why the greater EM community has declined to entertain CAP's attempts to become a resource.
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Strup
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etodd
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« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2019, 08:19:08 PM »

I get all that. Iím just the little worker bee. All your issues are way above my pay grade. Give National a phone call or email. Iím sure they would entertain your feedback.
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO

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etodd
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« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2019, 08:58:40 PM »


... these things become the new L-Pers / AP Cameras / Radios.


Well of course they will.  I never say any different. The drone is nothing more than a new tool in the toolbox. I tell folks around here that all the time. Sure, there will be a flurry of activity in the beginning, just as there was 2 or 3 years ago when the Garmin Virb camera came out. We had training weekends and a few SAREXs to learn it ... then yep, it goes in the closet with the DSLR and everything else, waiting for an actual mission, SAREX, or local training time. Its all the same.

I gave a drone demonstration at a Squadron meeting a few weeks ago. We had pushed it out there on FB beforehand, and had a number of visitors. Well, three new Seniors have joined saying they want to be a part of this new sUAS Program. Am I the big cheerleader and excited? Heck no. I realize that the drones will be sitting in the closet soon, and have told the rest of the squadron they better get these new members interested in other aspects of CAP if they want to retain them.   In the same way its always been when a "professional photographer" joins CAP thinking they will be taking aerial photos several times a month. Nope. Nothing new here. Same old issues.


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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO

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bwana50
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« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2019, 12:04:49 PM »

KSWG is ramping up.

I'm excited about the prospects of the program, but I fear CAP is too late to the game.  We'll see how it plays out.
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etodd
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« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2019, 07:22:59 PM »

KSWG is ramping up.

I'm excited about the prospects of the program, but I fear CAP is too late to the game.  We'll see how it plays out.

Too late for what?  SAR? Sure. First responders who are already on the scene are buying their own drones. Even if we had been the first to get into drones years ago, all the first responders would be buying them now, and would stop calling us.  We are NOT first responders and really never will be.  90% of all Saves now are thanks to the cell phone forensics team, that can do their job at 3am with laptops by the bedside, while still in their underwear. (That last part has to be bugging some CAP folks. LOL)

FEMA and other EMAs, and similar? Yes, they are talking with CAP now and are very interested in what we can provide in terms of DAR.
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO

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Eclipse
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« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2019, 07:36:39 PM »

FEMA and other EMAs, and similar? Yes, they are talking with CAP now and are very interested in what we can provide in terms of DAR.

FEMA is and will continue to farm DAR out to paid contractors who sign service agreements and respond whenever called,
regardless of area, time, or type of incident.

Local EMAs are already doing it on their own.  In my AOR I don't know of any department of consequence
that doesn't already have either in-house or external resources, none of which are tied to CAP's response
bureaucracy and limitations.

As a private citizen I can take my toys over to the Village Hall  and do whatever they ask me to do in shorts and a tank
top on nothing more then a handshake, and potentially do it on my own.

In a CAP uniform I need hours of approvals, forms, several people to be involved on one level or another,
and that assumes the program is ever a "program".

Except the Village isn't going to ask me, because they already have their own toys manned by paid
employees, and in a large incident, will be burning that sweet, sweet FEMA money on contractors.

Other than in rare circumstances that are generally personality-driven, CAP has never executed well
in regards to the relationships required to get mission work, on either the Federal or local level.
That's due to a lot of things, not the least of which is the lack of manpower, and overlapping bureaucracies.

If your wing / AOR isn't already doing aerial surveys, DR, CD, or other local support, nothing is going
to change because the wing gets a UAV.
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etodd
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« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2019, 07:51:50 PM »


If your wing / AOR isn't already doing aerial surveys, DR, CD, or other local support, nothing is going
to change because the wing gets a UAV.

So true with most everything CAP does. Not enough Commanders on every level, doing the tours of EMAs, cities, states, etc., shaking hands and selling CAP. It takes a special kind of person to do those things. Probably should be part of the Wing paid staff, if they are not already there. If already at all Wings, might be time to "encourage" some action on their part.
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO

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Eclipse
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« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2019, 08:46:01 PM »

The wing paid staff?
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CAP9907
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« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2019, 09:18:06 PM »

Last I knew the only paid staff at Wing HQís are the civilian admin assistants (1 per Wing)...
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etodd
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« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2019, 09:23:30 PM »

Last I knew the only paid staff at Wing HQís are the civilian admin assistants (1 per Wing)...

Well with CAP's status with EMAs and others being like Eclipse mentions above, maybe its time for each Wing to budget in a lobbyist. Who can go after all these organizations and get us in the door. The occasional visit from a local Commander obviously isn't doing the trick. Time to be aggressive.

Of course I should have put that in a new thread in a different category. LOL
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO

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Eclipse
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« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2019, 09:31:30 PM »

"Budget" from what?

"Lobby" who?

You've been in CAP far too long to not understand how it works, unless it's willful.
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baronet68
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« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2019, 10:26:28 PM »

... the Wing paid staff...

 :o  ???    :o




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Michael Moore, Maj, CAP
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etodd
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« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2019, 10:33:47 PM »

"Budget" from what?

"Lobby" who?

You've been in CAP far too long to not understand how it works, unless it's willful.

Thats my point. "How it works" ... apparently needs to change or what is our future? A Cadet education program only by year 20xx?

"How it works" is letting us slip down to nothingness in the SAR world (except for the plain clothes Cell Phone guys).

How many posts here read like the one Eclipse wrote above?  Numerous.

"We've always done it this way" ... <<<    Time to wake up don't you think.

No budget? Ask not receive not. Time to hit up Congress or somebody?
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO

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Eclipse
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« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2019, 11:01:35 PM »

Honestly, you have no idea how CAP works.

CAP is a volunteer organization, that's literally the only way the paradigm and ROI works.  The failures
are in retention of people, organizational knowledge, and lack of strategic plans that stir members' souls.

Stick to being an operator, or invest some time in leadership roles, then get back to us with your "idears" in 5 years or so.
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etodd
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« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2019, 12:32:19 AM »


Stick to being an operator ...


Yep. As I've said before, I prefer to just be a little worker bee.

Its fun to poke the bear every now and then though. ;)
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO

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SarDragon
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« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2019, 03:47:06 AM »


Stick to being an operator ...


Yep. As I've said before, I prefer to just be a little worker bee.

Its fun to poke the bear every now and then though. ;)

Winky smiley aside, the more you poke the bear, the less positive response you will get to your posts. Being a smart-ass isn't the best way to win folks over to things you are trying them are good.

Again, step back and look at what you are trying to achieve, and work toward reaching that goal without pissing off your audience. Right now, you aren't doing too well.
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Dave Bowles
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CAP9907
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« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2019, 03:58:16 AM »

.

Its fun to poke the bear every now and then though. ;)

No, it is not.

~9907

*edit*,  What SarDragon said, agree*
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 04:05:19 AM by CAP9907 » Report to moderator   Logged
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  CAP sUAS Discussions  |  Topic: Is Your Wing Onboard Yet?
 


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