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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Find Ribbon
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Eclipse
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« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2019, 02:15:39 PM »

So I see that this is DEFINATELY up for interpretation.

The reason I asked this is because a crew from my Squadron spent 5hrs on a ground team trying to find an ELT. They did not find it, the aircrew found the ELT returning back to base.

The ground crew did not get credit so NOW the issue is they are demoralized due to time and personal time and money spent trying to accomplish the mission, so they are wondering why they are even on ground crew if aircrew gets all the credit for finds?

Any advice on how to keep the team together since if you are aircrew it is MUCH easier to find an ELT vs Ground search? Case in point 5hrs time on ground, an hour as aircrew=Aircrew credit.

A solution to this is the write them up for Achievement Awards. While not a find ribbon, it surely shows that their efforts are not unappreciated, and that their efforts will not go unnoticed or unrewarded.

Non-concur for two reasons:

A - The Achievement should not be considered a quick check-box for "anything not approved by the wing" just
because the Group CC has the Magic Mouse (which it is increasingly becoming).

B - Unless the team actually did something "over and above", they don't deserve an ACH.
Prosecuting an ELT is a ground team's job, not commendable per-se.

That goes double in a wing where for whatever silly reason they are not giving Finds to the whole team,
because in that case the Group CC is essentially saying to the Wing CC, "Oh yeah? Watch this."

Cadets and news like bling, but as someone who understands the issue, I would not want an ACH in the
place of the Find, and that just means the Wing staff has no idea what the regulations dictate and permit.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 02:18:50 PM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


Stonewall
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Posts: 3,998

« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2019, 02:25:16 PM »

So I see that this is DEFINATELY up for interpretation.

The reason I asked this is because a crew from my Squadron spent 5hrs on a ground team trying to find an ELT. They did not find it, the aircrew found the ELT returning back to base.

The ground crew did not get credit so NOW the issue is they are demoralized due to time and personal time and money spent trying to accomplish the mission, so they are wondering why they are even on ground crew if aircrew gets all the credit for finds?

Any advice on how to keep the team together since if you are aircrew it is MUCH easier to find an ELT vs Ground search? Case in point 5hrs time on ground, an hour as aircrew=Aircrew credit.

A solution to this is the write them up for Achievement Awards. While not a find ribbon, it surely shows that their efforts are not unappreciated, and that their efforts will not go unnoticed or unrewarded.

Non-concur for two reasons:

A - The Achievement should not be considered a quick check-box for "anything not approved by the wing" just
because the Group CC has the Magic Mouse (which it is increasingly becoming).

B - Unless the team actually did something "over and above", they don't deserve an ACH.
Prosecuting an ELT is a ground teams job, not commendable per-se.

That goes double in a wing where for whatever silly reason they are not giving finds to the whole team,
because in that case the Group CC is essentially saying "Oh yeah? Watch this."

A while ago, before achievement medals existed, we were on an ELT search in DC. Possibilities included DCA, US Park Police helo in DC, EPIRBs in the Potomac, and random ELTs anywhere.  Due to the concrete jungle we could not get a solid signal. 

I asked permission to gain access to the roof of a high rise in Arlington Virginia (Courthouse area), dialed down a good direction which ultimately led us to a FIND at a USCG HQ building (EPIRB sitting upside down on someone’s desk). 

I was awarded a Commander’s Commendation for “innovation during a search that resulted in a find.”  Today that may warrant an achievement medal.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 02:29:23 PM by Stonewall » Report to moderator   Logged
Stonewall
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« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2019, 02:27:44 PM »

Double tap. Sorry.
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2019, 04:50:59 PM »

I was going to agree with Eclipse that I would not want an Achievement instead of a Find Ribbon.

Then I read Stonewal's post.

It is in the writing. If a certificate with the Achievement mentions "During a search that resulted in a Find," I would not mind an Achievement over a Find.
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Stonewall
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« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2019, 04:53:56 PM »

I was going to agree with Eclipse that I would not want an Achievement instead of a Find Ribbon.

Then I read Stonewal's post.

It is in the writing. If a certificate with the Achievement mentions "During a search that resulted in a Find," I would not mind an Achievement over a Find.

I got both, actually. Well, credit towards another clasp on the Find ribbon.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 06:43:38 PM by Stonewall » Report to moderator   Logged
Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2019, 06:34:30 PM »

Sorry I forgot.

     C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S !
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Find Ribbon
 


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