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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Can't buy ABUs on base
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Author Topic: Can't buy ABUs on base  (Read 8143 times)
SarDragon
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« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2019, 08:58:27 PM »

Re: Airman's Attic - be careful. There are reports on here of that venue on some bases being closed to CAP because of abuses. Do a search for "Airman's Attic" and look at the various posts, particularly the one from sardak on July 18, 2017, 12:34:32.
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Dave Bowles
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benjamin.petterborg
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« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2019, 10:24:46 PM »

My recommendation is, do whatever it takes to get USAF approval for CAP to transition to OCP as soon as possible.

Continue to allow the wear of BDU and ABU for those who have them, but get ahead of the OCP issue while you can. Blue Tapes, Rank and Badges and black boots worked for ABU, they will work equally for OCP.

Exactly. We are a part of the "total force" and are a USAF auxiliary, for what reason do we need outdated uniforms? As far as BDUs go, discontinue those if/when we get OCPs, we have enough patterns. For boots, I think we should move to sage or coyote boots, which don't look stupid and don't need polishing. AFJROTC has them, why shouldn't we?

Here are some ideas for OCPs, if/when we get them:
-Rank insignia   -   Use the velcro rank thing on the chest for ranks, dark blue background, white insignia.
-Name tapes   -   Same as ABUs.
-Boots  -   Coyote Brown.
-Patches   -   Velcro backing to go on all of the velcro on the sleeves.
-Fleece   -   Sage or Coyote. Give it 2-4 years before we care if they match.
-Backpacks   -   Olive Drab, Coyote Brown, or Black (or maybe just compliant with whatever AFI applies to that)
-Goretex   -   ABU or OCP, same stuff I said about the sage fleece.

That's just my opinion and I am completely open to criticism, if you have any. Lemme know if you want me to draw something up on what it would look like, let me know.
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PHall
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« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2019, 12:34:06 AM »

My recommendation is, do whatever it takes to get USAF approval for CAP to transition to OCP as soon as possible.

Continue to allow the wear of BDU and ABU for those who have them, but get ahead of the OCP issue while you can. Blue Tapes, Rank and Badges and black boots worked for ABU, they will work equally for OCP.

Exactly. We are a part of the "total force" and are a USAF auxiliary, for what reason do we need outdated uniforms? As far as BDUs go, discontinue those if/when we get OCPs, we have enough patterns. For boots, I think we should move to sage or coyote boots, which don't look stupid and don't need polishing. AFJROTC has them, why shouldn't we?

Because AFJROTC uniforms are shipped to the units and are issued to the cadets.
CAP members have to buy their uniforms. Finding sage or coyote boots off base is a pretty tall order.
There's about 20 or so states that do not have an Air Force Base. And most Guard or Reserve Bases don't have a uniform store.
So where would you find those boots in some place like Maine or Oregon?
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SarDragon
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« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2019, 12:37:14 AM »

PM sent. Let's avoid a dog pile.
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Dave Bowles
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shuman14
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« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2019, 09:47:41 PM »

So where would you find those boots in some place like Maine or Oregon?

As we say in the Military... G.T.S. ... Google That S***.

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=5DShXO_DBMzesAWJmIrwAg&q=coyote+brown+boots&oq=coyote+brown&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0l10.2374.7098..10189...0.0..0.304.1202.11j1j0j1......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..35i39j0i131j0i3.e0Gwela6PjI
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Joseph J. Clune
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PHall
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« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2019, 12:37:51 AM »

So where would you find those boots in some place like Maine or Oregon?

As we say in the Military... G.T.S. ... Google That S***.

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=5DShXO_DBMzesAWJmIrwAg&q=coyote+brown+boots&oq=coyote+brown&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0l10.2374.7098..10189...0.0..0.304.1202.11j1j0j1......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..35i39j0i131j0i3.e0Gwela6PjI

I was in Clothing Sales at March ARB today. The price of the Sage and Coyote Boots ranged from $154 - $204.
Yeah, that will go over well with parents. We'll stick with the Black boots, they're much cheaper.
When you have to buy all of your uniforms, price matters.
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shuman14
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« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2019, 03:03:29 AM »

When you have to buy all of your uniforms, price matters.

As a Commissioned Officer I have to buy all my Uniforms too, so I feel your pain. When I was Enlisted, just before I got Commissioned, I DX'ed all my worn uniforms and got four brand new sets of BDUs and two new sets of black boots and I had nearly two footlockers filled with usable old BDU and four pairs of used boots.

Then we switched to ACUs and I gave all my BDUs to CAP to distribute to Cadets.

Now we're switching to OCPs, at least I can continue to use Tan boots and t-shirts with them and old BDU Brown t-shirts have faded to a "Coyote Brown" and work quite well with OCPs.

For CAP, Black Boots will most likely never go away but it would make sense to get CAP-USAF to approve Black, Coyote Brown and Tan  Boots for CAP wear with OCPs.

Blue/White Name Tapes, Blue/White CAP Tapes, Blue/White/Yellow Rank Patches, Blue/White Badges and Blue T-shirts will clearly mark CAP different from USAF on OCPs.

CAP needs to get on top of this now. Get OCPs approved ASAP and ditch BDUs and ABUs as fast as you can. Pretty sure you can get Blue "OCP Style" tops and Bottoms so the Corporate Blue BDU could be updated too.

And with Velcro, if you move from one Wing to another, so much easier to switch the Wing Patch on or off.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 03:07:40 AM by shuman14 » Report to moderator   Logged
Joseph J. Clune
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PHall
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« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2019, 05:17:28 AM »

You do know that at most bases an Airman on Active Duty can't buy OCP's right now.
They were supposed to start selling them at March ARB on 1 April. The date is now TBD. Even AAFES has no idea.
There's not enough in the system to outfit everyone in the Army and the Air Force right now.
The contractors who were making ABU's are in the process of converting over to make OCP's.
It may be late this year before the supply situation is resolved.
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shuman14
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« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2019, 09:37:29 PM »

You do know that at most bases an Airman on Active Duty can't buy OCP's right now.
They were supposed to start selling them at March ARB on 1 April. The date is now TBD. Even AAFES has no idea.
There's not enough in the system to outfit everyone in the Army and the Air Force right now.
The contractors who were making ABU's are in the process of converting over to make OCP's.
It may be late this year before the supply situation is resolved.

So CAP has some wiggle room to coordinate with CAP-USAF and come up with a plan for CAP's transition to OCP during this supply lag.

Have the plan in place with a TBD dates to authorize wear of OCPs and wear-out date for ABUs.
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Joseph J. Clune
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Eclipse
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« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2019, 11:06:22 PM »

So CAP has some wiggle room to coordinate with CAP-USAF and come up with a plan for CAP's transition to OCP during this supply lag.

Have the plan in place with a TBD dates to authorize wear of OCPs and wear-out date for ABUs.

What "plan" do they need?  CAP goes to VG and asks them to start selling pink-hued / ultra-vivid OCPs from
whatever PAC-RIM supplier they are getting the pink-hued / ultra vivid CAP-ABU from and moves on.

AAFES and MCSS, while a portended possible source is not actually in CAP's supply chain for uniforms
(and has really never been much of a player for the majority of members anyway).

CAP could do it tomorrow and it would have zero effect on the USAF, the Army, or anyone else.

There's no shortage of OCPs in the retail space, any more then there's a shortage of BDU, ABU, or CFU.
The "shortage" is simply a situation where a very small number of members who used to be able to
have easier access to some pieces because they were / are in the service and could shop on base or AAFES
will have to get things like the rest of the membership.

Not an option for the vast majority of members, which as PHALL points out have no proximity to an MCSS
and who lost mail order access to AAFES years ago.

As long as Walmart can sell serviceable boots for $30 and the internet exists, CAP doesn't need to be making
more changes to the multiform, unless it's to eliminate the affectation of camo and reduce the number of options
to things members can actually easily procure.
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Stonewall
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« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2019, 12:38:38 AM »

You do know that at most bases an Airman on Active Duty can't buy OCP's right now.
They were supposed to start selling them at March ARB on 1 April. The date is now TBD. Even AAFES has no idea.
There's not enough in the system to outfit everyone in the Army and the Air Force right now.
The contractors who were making ABU's are in the process of converting over to make OCP's.
It may be late this year before the supply situation is resolved.

I was at Ft. Belvoir, VA three days ago and there's a big sign outside the MCSS that says, and I'm paraphrasing here, "OCPs will not be sold to the Air Force."

Many Airmen are ordering OCPs through places like US Patriot Tactical or Kel-Lac and those are made by Proper and TruSpec, which, I believe are authorized, but have some subtle differences.
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Fubar
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« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2019, 06:38:57 PM »

Many Airmen are ordering OCPs through places like US Patriot Tactical or Kel-Lac and those are made by Proper and TruSpec, which, I believe are authorized, but have some subtle differences.

Interestingly, those sites differentiate between army and air force OCP uniforms. Are they different? I thought one of the selling points in moving to the army's uniform was keeping it simple and using just one uniform for both branches.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2019, 06:54:31 PM »

There are (or were) several variants approved for wear depending on when they were issued.
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NIN
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« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2019, 07:52:24 PM »

There are (or were) several variants approved for wear depending on when they were issued.

Yeah, there were the OEF Multicams, and then OCP Multicams, or some such crazy terminology differences.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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NovemberWhiskey
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« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2019, 08:03:14 PM »

This is easy.

The uniform is the ACU; which either stands for Army Combat Uniform or Airman Combat Uniform, depending on context. As the Army Combat Uniform, it has been issued in the Universal Camouflage Pattern (UCP), the Operation Enduring Freedom Camouflage Pattern (which is actually MultiCam, but also known as OEF) and the Operational Camouflage Pattern (which is not MultiCam but Scorpion W2, and usually known as OCP). As the Airman Combat Uniform, it has only ever been issued in OCP.

Actually maybe it isn't so easy :)
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NIN
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« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2019, 09:12:35 PM »

Actually maybe it isn't so easy :)

I have a scorecard and I can't even....
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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shuman14
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« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2019, 08:48:57 PM »

OCP is now the issued pattern.

The other Patterns are no longer being issued, but, as far as the Army is concerned, still authorized for wear. A "wear-out" date has not been announced.

Mix-n-match of patterns is not authorized.

You can wear the ACU tan t-shirts, belts and boots with OCPs but you can not wear coyote t-shirts, belts and boots with the ACUs. I think the "wear-out" date for the ACUs themselves is 01OCT2019 but there is talk of that being delayed. Not all USAR and NG Enlisted personnel have received their four sets of OCPs yet and the Army is not sure if it can meet the 01OCT2019 date to equip them all.

For CAP purposes, ACU in OCP Pattern should be the only thing discussed for getting CAP-USAF authorization for wear. Again, after the USAF roll out is complete.
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Joseph J. Clune
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Eclipse
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« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2019, 09:26:22 PM »

For CAP purposes, ACU in OCP Pattern should be the only thing discussed for getting CAP-USAF authorization for wear. Again, after the USAF roll out is complete.

Since when does CAP-USAF authorize CAP uniforms?
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Dwight Dutton
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« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2019, 11:28:40 PM »

For CAP purposes, ACU in OCP Pattern should be the only thing discussed for getting CAP-USAF authorization for wear. Again, after the USAF roll out is complete.
Since when does CAP-USAF authorize CAP uniforms?

I think if we want OCP's that's who we ask.  If not the actual approving authority they are at least who national would ask first.  But we have to debate it on captalk for a couple of years before they even consider doing anything.

I now have four sets of large regular ABU's I'm not even going to sew the insignia on.

Now the OCP drama starts where the ABU ended.  I want my $200 for passing GO.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2019, 11:47:00 PM »

I now have four sets of large regular ABU's I'm not even going to sew the insignia on.

Those ABUs would be fully worn in, if not out before OCPs are even considered let alone approved,
especially with the typical CAP-extended sundown.

There's no reason you can't use them.

OCPs are likely a 2025-2030 conversation at best.
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