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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: cac
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Capmonkey
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Posts: 141

« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2018, 04:09:48 PM »

So if an assistant is holding the position of recorder, they get the ribbon and the cord. They get the dec. Problem solved. As CC, you're perfectly capable of making your own decisions, and if the CAC finds that the primary isn't active, they can make a recommendation through the Director of Cadet Programs, for the CC to remove the primary. Problem solved for dec, and motivation. Easy. Next.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2018, 04:14:47 PM »

So if an assistant is holding the position of recorder, they get the ribbon and the cord. They get the dec. Problem solved. As CC, you're perfectly capable of making your own decisions, and if the CAC finds that the primary isn't active, they can make a recommendation through the Director of Cadet Programs, for the CC to remove the primary. Problem solved for dec, and motivation. Easy. Next.

As written, there is no means for an assistant rep to earn the dec.

The Dir of Cadet Programs does not appoint unit or group reps, and doesn't have the authority to
replace those cadets.
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2018, 04:16:39 PM »

If they are filling the position of Recorder, they classify as an officer, and the dec associated with such role is applied. And if you would re-read, it says recommendation. The Director/CP can go to the Wing CC, who has the authority to go to the Sq. CC and advise that they remove the rep.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2018, 04:19:46 PM »

If they are filling the position of Recorder, they classify as an officer, and the dec associated with such role is applied.

So now 60-1 also conflicts with 39-3.  Awesome.
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2018, 04:20:59 PM »

So if the chair of CAC is an assistant, they don't get the recognition of an officer? That's not right. If you have concerns, why don't you pass it through the channels and get it changed instead of complaining on here about it?
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Vegas1972
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Posts: 69
Unit: PCR-NV

« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2018, 04:23:38 PM »

If they are filling the position of Recorder, they classify as an officer, and the dec associated with such role is applied.

So now 60-1 also conflicts with 39-3.  Awesome.

and 39-1 for the cords as well...
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.", Sgt. John M. Stryker.
Capmonkey
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« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2018, 04:25:56 PM »

We can all agree that the assistants don't wear the cords. That's about the only thing we can agree on.
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Vegas1972
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Unit: PCR-NV

« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2018, 04:27:20 PM »

We can all agree that the assistants don't wear the cords. That's about the only thing we can agree on.

according to 39-1... an officer who's an assistant (which I agree with Eclipse...doesn't make sense) shouldn't have a cord either.
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.", Sgt. John M. Stryker.
Capmonkey
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« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2018, 04:29:07 PM »

So you're saying if an assistant serves as an officer, they don't deserve the dec?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2018, 04:30:19 PM »

So if the chair of CAC is an assistant, they don't get the recognition of an officer? That's not right.

Up until Feb 2018, only the Primary and the chair were awarded ribbons, and the recorder was
not considered a "CAC Officer".

And 39-3 only awarded decs to the primaries - so that has been in conflict for quite a while.

Other then maybe NCAC, I don't think I've ever seen a situation where the chair wasn't the primary,
but for that matter most CACs have enough trouble just getting enough primaries to produce a quorum.

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Vegas1972
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Unit: PCR-NV

« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2018, 04:30:40 PM »

So you're saying if an assistant serves as an officer, they don't deserve the dec?


nope...I did not say that at any time.   I said "according to 39-1....shouldn't have a cord"   
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.", Sgt. John M. Stryker.
Capmonkey
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« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2018, 04:33:32 PM »

I believe that regardless of if the officers are primary or not, they still deserve the dec. Maybe someone, maybe CAC's or the SM's, should look into the conflicting problems, as it seems to be so much of a problem
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Vegas1972
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« Reply #52 on: November 02, 2018, 04:37:59 PM »

So you're saying if an assistant serves as an officer, they don't deserve the dec?

you seem to be getting wrapped around the axle about this point... My post and the way I read Eclipse's posts (and I by no means purport to speak for him)...they were not anti CAC, anti assistant or anti cadet....they were anti CAP having 3 regulatory documents, an outdated pamphlet, and a referenced pamphlet that doesn't exist yet that all contradict one another. 



Personally, I think they should get rid of the primary/assistant deal and have two full equal members from each unit appointed to the next echelon.   
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 04:53:07 PM by Vegas1972 » Report to moderator   Logged
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.", Sgt. John M. Stryker.
Capmonkey
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Posts: 141

« Reply #53 on: November 02, 2018, 04:54:29 PM »

The outdated pamphlet should be going away soon, as the new pamphlet is in CP at HQ. I can agree with taking away the primary/assistant and have them being equal, with the pair only getting one vote, so I agree with that. As for the cords, I won't argue that more, as it's pointless to argue regs. I'm sorry if I've come off as disrespectful in any way.
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Color Guard Rifleman
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Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2018, 05:00:15 PM »

 -
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 05:17:42 PM by Color Guard Rifleman » Report to moderator   Logged
C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
2019 MIWG Encampment Squadron 2 First Sergeant
GLR-MI-265 Recruiting NCO

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Eclipse
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« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2018, 05:04:41 PM »

Personally, I think they should get rid of the primary/assistant deal and have two full equal members from each unit appointed to the next echelon.

That doesn't work - their votes could cancel each other out, and units that send two would have advantages over
those that only send one. (Not that it really matters, but from a logic perspective).
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Eclipse
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« Reply #56 on: November 02, 2018, 05:08:09 PM »

I'm sorry if I've come off as disrespectful in any way.

I don't see any disrespect. Disagreement does not equal disrespect.

These are legitimate gray areas that in some cases have persisted for years.

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Capmonkey
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« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2018, 05:16:39 PM »

Thanks for understanding, sir. I can agree that in some cases, CAC can be it's own little world, but since I've been in on all echelons, I've tried to make it as good and effective as I can, while following the regs, which can be gray in some instances.
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Color Guard Rifleman
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Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2018, 05:18:12 PM »

Are officers or Cadet Commander more likely to be chosen for Group CAC?
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C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
2019 MIWG Encampment Squadron 2 First Sergeant
GLR-MI-265 Recruiting NCO

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Eclipse
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« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2018, 05:23:10 PM »

Are officers or Cadet Commander more likely to be chosen for Group CAC?

I would say on the mean, yes, but it depends on a lot of factors. 

In smaller units, the Cadet Commander is sometimes the only cadet qualified from an ability / interest perspective, and
in a perfect CAP world CAC reps are supposed to be officers.
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: cac
 


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